Fawlty Towers Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Given the number of postponed games we have had this season plus games that have gone ahead in the last few seasons on a pitch that does not suit our preferred style of play I think we all agree that something needs to be done - but what is that something? Now I don't know the figures involved but from what has been discussed about artifical pitches I believe that there is a one off cost to install it then the maintenance costs are less than a grass pitch. Also you can either rent it out or use it for various teams and cut the cost of renting other facilities. The other option would be to keep a grass pitch but to get it sorted is going to cost a lot but it seems to be the preferred option of the manager and players. If you were running Partick Thistle what would you decide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kenny Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Murrayfield has a grass/plastic hybrid that was put in after the pitch issues the SRU had. Could something similar not be used at Firhill? Seems to have done the trick for the rugby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 I know PTFC can't do anything about it but surely summer football is the answer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 4G or NFL Standard FieldTurf for me. Football should be played on grass, but it is not always possible. By installing turf we would be virtually immune to postponements, we could hire the pitch out as well as run first team training on it without having to pay for an additional training ground. I'm also of the opinion that we would gain a slight advantage at home by having players used to playing on 4G. Even over the past five years, the technology and standard that goes into artificial surfaces has come on exponentially, and is no longer that clichéd image of a strip of green felt on a bed of concrete. I am not even of the opinion that the standard of our football would decline as we are having to play "hoof-ball" now anyway. Cons are obviously the 20%+ increase in injuries, but without summer football or major investment of our drainage facilities, we are heading down that road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 From me it's not a yes/no until a thorough study into all these peripheral questions is undertaken and an informed best option can be chosen. We have a limited budget, we must insure we spend it wisely. With investment comes risk and we have to do our homework on this. I think we have a chairman who understands this now. However, I hope he appreciates the huge influence a decision like this might have on our club and listens to all arguments, opinions, research and projections and considers all outcomes , good and bad, there probability and potential effect on the club. I believe that some clubs who have installed artificial surfaces, with the intention of raising revenue from increased usage (i.e. renting out for community use etc..) have found that after initial costs, the savings on maintenance, and utilisation of the stadium for training rather than renting facilities, have been so great that they have abandoned such plans... If true, savings and efficiencies like this, could have a serious impact on our capability to grow the club. Also.... This is not a decision without the need for long term planning and commitment, however, it is not one we might never reverse. If executed well, the opportunity to return to grass remain and the ability to take good care of it possibly improve. I don't think it's a one size fits all solution. Some clubs have done well with them and others not, and some have not made the most of what they have. We have to think about how Partick Thistle F.C. Ltd will perform with such an asset. I much prefer grass and our ground-staff work miracles ... but our pitch is becoming a burden this year, and does not have a great reputation. We have to admit we are some distance from perfection and think what's the best we can do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Murrayfield has a grass/plastic hybrid that was put in after the pitch issues the SRU had. Could something similar not be used at Firhill? Seems to have done the trick for the rugby. Have thought a hybrid pitch would be the best bit long term, financial considerations notwithstanding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 This is the wettest winter on record so no need for a knee jerk reaction.. Our crowds are disappointedly low even in the best of weather. Imagine the numbers that'll turn up on rotten days/nights. Anybody that watches football on synthetic pitches will know that as a spectacle it's impaired. Players are struggling with playing on synthetic surfaces. Certainly many can't train on them. Not strictly a reason for us not having such a surface but synthetic pitches can give the club in question an unfair advantage on other clubs playing on grass. I doubt I'd be alone but I would be unlikely to renew my season ticket. That's not some sort of principled stance just watching that sort of football is not something I signed up for. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Genuinely curious LIB, in what way is the spectacle impaired? Didn't we play some of our best football this season down at Rugby Park? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Totally agree with LIB , it's a different brand of football on synthetic surfaces even though they have improved over the years. In terms of the market we're in for enticing players to the club , I'm pretty sure some players wouldn't want to play on an artificial pitch thus diminishing even more the options we have in the transfer market. Hopefully the club have exhausted all avenues and taken advice from other sports grounds and contractors to find out what the problem is with the drainage as from my memory the canal has always been there. In terms of the cost of installing a 3 or 4 g park , think you could be talking in the region of £500k and I'm not so sure there is a good enough revenue stream there to justify that and on a side note think we're contracted to the Science Park for the next couple of years in terms of training facilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome on the Bing Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 I'm not a fan of artificial pitches. Even with the best ones I've always thought there to be an appreciable impact on player movement and the type of challenges that are made. Perhaps recent improvements have rendered my position outdated, but this has always been my feeling. That said, increased precipitation is likely to become the norm, so we have to ask whether the current pitch is still fit for purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Genuinely curious LIB, in what way is the spectacle impaired? Didn't we play some of our best football this season down at Rugby Park? On the specific the conditions that day were horrendous and we've certainly played better football on numerous occasions this season. ICT away (1st game), Aberdeen away, Celtic away and Dundee Utd at home spring to mind. We did completely outplay Killie but I'd suggest we'd have done that on any surface or overhead conditions that day. On a generalisation I don't recall us playing and winning well on synthetic surfaces when we've been going thru a relative good spell. In fairness tho' I thought we did fine at NDP first game of the season with 10 men. I've got to admit I find it difficult to express my resentment to synthetic pitches in a tangible way. But try a day with a strong wind from goal to goal and watch the bounce of the ball down wind. Compare that to what you'd expect from a watered grass surface and imo it's night and day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Fair enough, I don't get to enough away games to notice. However, with winters getting wetter, and by all accounts summers too (ask your local cricket club how many fixtures they've had waterlogged over the past few years), I think it's inevitable that synthetic surfaces are going to become the norm rather than the exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 Just as an aside the current problem at Firhill appears to be a drainage problem. To take things to the extreme an artificial surface at Brunton Pk would've made hee haw difference. Simply installing a synthetic surface could just be the equivalent of papering over the cracks. I'm a total layperson but I'd imagine even if we intended to install an artificial pitch we'd still have to find the root cause of the present problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Jag Posted February 19, 2016 Report Share Posted February 19, 2016 While still not a fan of artificial surfaces they are much better than they were even 5 years ago. Dunfermline's wasn't too clever even though it was UEFA approved. I believe the Murrayfield pitch is a hybrid and is also used in many grounds in England's top league but is expensive. So far this season we have had 4 home games postponed. Think that Dundee Utd and Aberdeen both had sold out hospitality. Aberdeen tonight would have given us TV money. The postponed Well game played a couple of weeks ago had a crowd of about 2500, probably around 500 down on a Saturday crowd. If we can get the Aberdeen game rescheduled for Saturday 5 March (cup weekend) we could gain however, I think these postponements could be costing us a substantial amount and hurting our cash flow. There is also the new league cup schedule starting in July making it a challenge to get a new grass pitch laid in the close season. I fear the board may have to look seriously at an artificial surface as the cash we have lost due to these postponements is likely to be considerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Totally agree with LIB , it's a different brand of football on synthetic surfaces even though they have improved over the years. In terms of the market we're in for enticing players to the club , I'm pretty sure some players wouldn't want to play on an artificial pitch thus diminishing even more the options we have in the transfer market. Hopefully the club have exhausted all avenues and taken advice from other sports grounds and contractors to find out what the problem is with the drainage as from my memory the canal has always been there. In terms of the cost of installing a 3 or 4 g park , think you could be talking in the region of £500k and I'm not so sure there is a good enough revenue stream there to justify that and on a side note think we're contracted to the Science Park for the next couple of years in terms of training facilities. I'm for grass. But those clubs who do have artificial pitches don't seem to struggle to attract players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Whatever happens in the longer term, we need a solution which will get us the backlog played. I don't know what the current dimensions of the pitch are but how about moving the Jackie Husband side touchline as far in as possible, digging a deep hole in the corner and pumping the water out. Bit tongue in cheek but we need to do something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dan Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 I know that synthetic surfaces have moved on but I played hockey on some of the earlier versions both here and in the Netherlands. One of the Dutch players is now an orthopaedic surgeon and regularly treats former players. The game became completely different tactically and less forgiving for the least skillful. I watched the Warriors game on TV last night and the game played there differed greatly from games at Scotston. Summer football would not be immune to waterlogging, Glasgow Tigers regularly lose fixtures due to rain. If we moved to synthetic we would have to be prepared to accept a completely different product ant the increased possibility of joint and back injuries. As a club with a small squad could we afford to take the risk? Short term could we dig a drainage sump at the bing? I would watch Thistle play on anything but would prefer on grass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 What we do or don't do in regards to the pitch will give a big insight as to how our future looks at Firhill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 4G or NFL Standard FieldTurf for me. Football should be played on grass, but it is not always possible. By installing turf we would be virtually immune to postponements, we could hire the pitch out as well as run first team training on it without having to pay for an additional training ground. I'm also of the opinion that we would gain a slight advantage at home by having players used to playing on 4G. Even over the past five years, the technology and standard that goes into artificial surfaces has come on exponentially, and is no longer that clichéd image of a strip of green felt on a bed of concrete. I am not even of the opinion that the standard of our football would decline as we are having to play "hoof-ball" now anyway. Cons are obviously the 20%+ increase in injuries, but without summer football or major investment of our drainage facilities, we are heading down that road. Couple of questions, who pays for it laid and the relaying of it if it (hamilton had to relay theirs after a season due to problems with it, can you guarantee people would hire it out. It is still soil underneath the artificial turf so surely we would still have the same problem with standing water and would it not degrade the soil underneath? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) What we do or don't do in regards to the pitch will give a big insight as to how our future looks at Firhill Direct quote from Archie in ET We need to spend money on the pitch too and we might not even have time to fix it properly in the summer with the changes to the fixtures now. In a normal close season our reseeding programme usually means we only play home friendlies late on. If the reseeding is delayed due to work on the pitch and with the season starting earlier then things would be very tight if not near impossible. I wouldn't be too surprised if we kicked off next season playing at Scotstoun Edited February 20, 2016 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Direct quote from Archie in ET In a normal close season our reseeding programme usually means we only play home friendlies late on. If the reseeding is delayed due to work on the pitch and with the season starting earlier then things would be very tight if not near impossible. I wouldn't be too surprised if we kicked off next season playing at Scotstoun It depends whether we do a patch up, a full reconstruction with new drainage, or a plastic pitch. All cost money, some are long term investments others are sticking plasters for a gaping wound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Another thing to consider is that next season does see a winter break for the top flight clubs so that will help if the period it covers has bad weather but knowing Scotland we will probably see really bad weather in the run up to it and straight after we come back and the period with no games will be fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 If the problem is water rising from the leakage of the basin, does putting an artificial pitch over that help? Will it not just trap the water underneath making the plastic pitch unstable as it effectively sits on a marsh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted February 20, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 If the problem is water rising from the leakage of the basin, does putting an artificial pitch over that help? Will it not just trap the water underneath making the plastic pitch unstable as it effectively sits on a marsh This is part of the issue for me - we actually don't know what the main issue is so therefore it makes deciding what the best solution is a lot harder. As part of a wider issue it demonstrates why better interaction between the club and the fans is so important. If there was a mechanism for that the club could meet with reps explain exactly what the issue is, what the options are with all the pros and cons and (heaven forbid) fans asked for their opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 This is part of the issue for me - we actually don't know what the main issue is so therefore it makes deciding what the best solution is a lot harder. As part of a wider issue it demonstrates why better interaction between the club and the fans is so important. If there was a mechanism for that the club could meet with reps explain exactly what the issue is, what the options are with all the pros and cons and (heaven forbid) fans asked for their opinion. This would be an ideal subject for the quarterly supporters federation meetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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