potty trained Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Why then did we pay a fee and give a 3 year contract on deadline day to a defensive midfield player when it was patently obvious that we had no cover at centre half?? In all the years I have been going to Firhill I don't ever recall us ever having only 2 central defenders. As for the goalies, Crawford looked OK in the games I saw him play in, why was he freed with the doubts surrounding both Cerny and Scully regarding injuries. He was obviously on buttons, but would have been a capable back up, rather that bring Stuckman in. Maybe Archie has been monitoring Barton for a couple of years and has wanted him more than any other. Maybe he looked at the likes of welsh and fraser only a year left and thought, theyre shite and need replaced? Its funny. This time last year, many complained about us signing Dumbuya. We had Miller, why waste money on a second right back. Were there still doubts over cerny when crawford was released? As far as i remember cerny was back and playing. Where have you seen that there were still doubts about his fitness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Vinnyjag - Its the manner of the goals we are losing which is the most concerning. Its basic stuff and persistent individual errors which are costing us. We need to score at least 2 goals to win a game, 3 to be almost sure. My point about taking 4 points from the next 2 games, although early in the season, we then have a run of difficult games which follow. We seem incapable of taking points off the so called 'big 4'. We had a remarkable run last season which saved us and would be even more remarkable if we were able to emulate it. To end the 1st quarter with 10 points would be decent return and would ease the pressure going into winter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Maybe Archie has been monitoring Barton for a couple of years and has wanted him more than any other. Maybe he looked at the likes of welsh and fraser only a year left and thought, theyre shite and need replaced? Its funny. This time last year, many complained about us signing Dumbuya. We had Miller, why waste money on a second right back. Were there still doubts over cerny when crawford was released? As far as i remember cerny was back and playing. Where have you seen that there were still doubts about his fitness? The very fact that both keepers were injured at the start of the season plus it had been already been noted that Cerny had this problem before should have raised concerns. This is now three times within 11 months that he has been out with the same problem and in each scenario he has been out for lengthy periods. Would it have cost much to have kept Crawford on the books until January rather than bring another keeper in? anyway I have said my tuppence worth about the situation and it was said at the start of the season as well. Just going over old ground now. Going up to the development game tomorrow....hopefully Archie might give Barton a run out in central defence! Edited October 17, 2016 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 We would be forced to play development squad players. There would be no obvious option. What happened to the chap Penrice, who seemed able enough at full back and could actually cross a ball? Lindau's answered re Penrice. On paper the obvious replacement for Devine would be Syme but he's not there yet. In fact McMullen looks well ahead of him. I think the latter, being left sided, could stand in for Lindsay if pushed but moving Liam over and bringing McMullen in wouldn't imo be a viable option. If Devine continues to under perform playing three at the back might become the best option. I've already said it doesn't necessarily mean we play less attacking football. However I couldn't argue that it's a positive move when it's brought about by necessity or damage limitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Would folk be happy if Devine cut out the mistakes the way Lindsay has? I dont think Lindsay can be blamed for a goal since he got turned inside out by old man Boyd, down at killie. Edited October 17, 2016 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Thoughts on who was at fault for our second goal? Never got a clean view of it during game and highlights don't make it clear either! Think its Osman that loses his man for first goal. Edited October 17, 2016 by Alan Murray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Would folk be happy if Devine cut out the mistakes the way Lindsay has? I dont think Lindsay can be blamed for a goal since he got turned inside out by old man Boyd, down at killie. I think the question should be is he making mistakes because he is underperforming or is he just a diddy? . Being contantly outjumped and bullied suggests he's not up to it. Has he got another level he can raise his game to? The ICT fans on P&B all said he has a mistake in him every game. Lindsay quite rightly needs cut some slack and he looks like he is now progressing with better performances . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Would folk be happy if Devine cut out the mistakes the way Lindsay has? I feel Devine has to improve on his distribution as well. He's slightly better in that respect than Frans but that's hardly a ringing endorsement. That of course is secondary to the errors. Can tho' be inter connected as if you don't distribute the ball effectively the chances are you're inviting more pressure on yourself, Thus increasing the odds of ballsing things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 The reason I ask is, I had a look at the 13 goals we've conceded in the league. We've conceded 2 direct from corners, both to the same position, but one was Lindsay one was Osman. (Hearts and Hamilton) We've conceded 2 from crosses in open play. both back post, both Ziggy. (Killie and St Johnstone) Of the 6 goals conceded through the middle: Lindsay was at fault at the start of the season (Aberdeen robbed/Killie sold by Boyd) Devine at fault over the last couple of games. Motherwell, Rangers, Hamilton.... But even McDonalds goal I would struggle to blame solely on Devine. Yes McDonald is his man, but he steps out and plays off side, moving in line with Lindsay and Booth. Gordon plays everyone onside. so really thats actually Gordon's fault too. That leaves the st johnstone game where Devine and Lindsay were at sea and lost one of the strikers. Lindsay has improved. I'd say Gordon is getting steadier... so that leaves Devine to get comfortable. If he settles over the next 2 or 3 games, we concentrate on defending as a unit, I'd be more comfortable going into our tough run of games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kenny Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Going by the highlights Lindsay and Devine's positioning both look a bit questionable for the 2nd goal. In saying that, the midfield give Donati all the time in the world to look up and make the pass. Devine flys in to tackles but his aggression in the air is nowhere near as intense. This is where I think we're struggling when it comes to defending set pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 In tone with above two posts I'll try and keep it objective. Firstly any centrebacks are best judged as a pairing. The best of centrebacks can be made to look stupid if his partner isn't in cync. The trick is usually to get the whole greater than the sum of the parts and so far that ain't happening. KK's point about Devine's aerial fallibility seems valid to me. It might not be the fact that he's not winning these aerial tussles as much as he's attempting to win balls he's not going to win. That must in effect often tempt Lindsay out of position as well as himself. Lost count of the missed or ineffectual headers in recent games. I'll differ with KK slightly re set pieces. On Saturday with both Abdul and Barton on the pitch there was little excuse for not defending high balls from set pieces.The captain and also the goalie have to share the responsibility. Blaming Devine for all our defensive woes is too easy. He's certainly a major contributor but no way alone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watties wallies Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 just watched the highlights jeezo that second goal schoolboy defending by devine and lindsay on another point i'm sure others have noticed during a game, the number of times gordon moves in towards devine on the right leaving gaps down that right side of our defence is this tactical or does gordon feel that devine needs backup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 I whole heartedly agree with most of the opinions here. I feel that we have flung away numerous chance to pull away from the bottom of the table and in a similar vein our chocolate teapot defense has proved permeable to all but the most abject of Attacks so far. It's still early on in the season, but the signs are not at all good. The team seem to lack conviction in their own ability to get a result and are similarly clueless about what system they are attempting to play. On Saturday after Erskine went off we basically surrendered the initiative and received our Just rewards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 just watched the highlights jeezo that second goal schoolboy defending by devine and lindsay on another point i'm sure others have noticed during a game, the number of times gordon moves in towards devine on the right leaving gaps down that right side of our defence is this tactical or does gordon feel that devine needs backup Booth tucks in a lot and elliott slots in to a back 5. Id imagine the same shouod happen on the opposite side with amoo slotting back. Another advantage of 4231 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Edge Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 I'm not prepared to reveal any confidential information, but I am prepared to say that in my humble opinion I would be very surprised if there was a manager in the SPFL that worked harder than Alan Archibald to bring in new players. In Archie I trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watties wallies Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 I'm not prepared to reveal any confidential information, but I am prepared to say that in my humble opinion I would be very surprised if there was a manager in the SPFL that worked harder than Alan Archibald to bring in new players. In Archie I trust. thanks for that Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeanieD Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Whilst the goals we shipped were probably poor - we did benefit big-time from a comedy goal in our favour - and even the 2nd goal was a routine cross/header which Hamilton will, no doubt, be unhappy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted October 17, 2016 Report Share Posted October 17, 2016 Interesting to note that as we all squabble about our defence, that out with the top 5 we have lost the least goals. We've still to play a rearranged match at park head and we haven't kept a clean sheet since game 1. That's the worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Cast your mind back to last season and the flak Frans and Seabourne got on a fairly consistent basis. Now they are the modern day Miller and McLeish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 18, 2016 Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 Why then did we pay a fee and give a 3 year contract on deadline day to a defensive midfield player when it was patently obvious that we had no cover at centre half?? In all the years I have been going to Firhill I don't ever recall us ever having only 2 central defenders. As for the goalies, Crawford looked OK in the games I saw him play in, why was he freed with the doubts surrounding both Cerny and Scully regarding injuries. He was obviously on buttons, but would have been a capable back up, rather that bring Stuckman in. I take it that you don't think our ability to sign players was hindered by having to sign Gordon, the temporary keepers and losing the Rangers income ? Barton was brought in as cover for central defense as well as being able to play midfield.Crawford was let go when it seemed Cerny had recovered. We only brought in Stuckman when Cerny had a relapse. I don't know why we paid money for Barton. Archie obviously saw something in his ability that will benefit Thistle. The season still has a long way to go. We may be 2nd bottom, but we aren't adrift and are still touching distance from top 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted October 18, 2016 Members Report Share Posted October 18, 2016 We're bedding in an entirely new defence. That takes more than just a few months. Although Booth and Lindsay played in the same defence last season, they did not partner one another much. And then we also have our second choice goalkeeper! Things will get better. In the meantime, the midfield have to help out more. I feel we are losing goals, especially late ones, directly from poor defensive midfield play. Like many, I've been really impressed with Edwards this season, however, poor pass against St. Johnstone led to their second goal and failing to track back and help defensively against Well and Hamilton have cost us dearly. For me Devine is an improvement speed wise in central defence. I do feel he has concentration issues though. Certainly did on Saturday to let Brophy give him the slip so easily. Teams have obviously identifed we have a weakness at balls flung into our right side central defence so perhaps it would be better for us to try and stop these balls coming in and that's where the midfield come in. Rather than setting the team out for a win at all costs, for the next 5 or 6 games, I'd go for strengthening up the side. I'd bring in Christie on the left hand side of midfield as that's where most of the balls getting flung in are coming from. I'd take out Lawless for a bit as he seems to be struggling for a bit of form at the moment. If Ryan Edwards plays from the start, I'd start looking to sub him off at around the 70 minute mark. For me he falls out the game at this point. Lawless would come on for either Ryan or for Chris if he picks up yet another knock. Other subs would be tactical on the day as to how the game is shaping up or individual form or for injury. Steady the boat as we did last season, and then move on from there. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Best thing about this thread: A guy who genuinely believes the world is flat calling someone else "delusional". Priceless. Back on Planet Earth Sabbath - take a look at where St Mirren are now and then tell me you still want Archie sacked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Agree entirely with Willjag and have just posted elsewhere re Lawless being out of the team. I think tho' Willjag would agree that not being able to have Stevie coming off the bench will be a real miss . Watching the U20s last night you could see the benefit of having midfielders having the awareness to help out the defence at all times. hardly a lapse in concentration all night. Young Wilson (not long turned 17) demonstrated that awareness by either falling into the last line or not giving the ball away cheaply when under pressure. A lesson being ignored by our first team midfield. The match script last night in the hands of our first team would've resulted in 2-2 draw. Said before I wish our first team could "see out a game" as well as the youngsters. I've been of the opinion that our good defensive record last season was more down to Osman and Cerny than the back four. Abdul for that additional protection and Cerny for his organisation. Osman's not been at his best so far and the defence looks lacking in organisation all too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Best thing about this thread: A guy who genuinely believes the world is flat calling someone else "delusional". Priceless. Back on Planet Earth Sabbath - take a look at where St Mirren are now and then tell me you still want Archie sacked. With the team Archie has built this summer we could well find ourselves playing St Mirren next season. On that tone, has Archie maybe took us as far as he can? We find ourselves treading water again this season likely scrapping for survival. Granted we have a smaller budget but has that budget been used to the best of its ability? We are plentiful in midfielders, and lack in the main positions, i.e. up front and at the back. Thats all down to the manager. There is no doubt he has done well keeping us in the league the past 3 seasons but is it time we had ambitions like even to be able to take a point off the OF? Its early yet in the season but lets be honest, we have no real quality in the squad with perhaps the exception of Erskine who gives you that bit of hope and excitement. Other than that we are about average at best. What can we hope for now this season? survival and not to be put out early in the Scottish Cup? Its little wonder crowds are dwindling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaila Street Posted October 19, 2016 Report Share Posted October 19, 2016 Has the background staff changed this season? It might be an illusion but the fitness levels on show appear to have dropped. There's a few blowing out their backsides at approx 70 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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