Hearts 23/9/17

[Vaila Street]

We actually did look quite fit towards the end and had the better of the last 10 minutes.

After having had a rest for 25 minutes aye.

[P-T-118]

Any update on the person that was getting first aid..?

 

Hope he / she was ok...

[chunky jag]

Thought Jordan Turnbull and Danny Devine were absolutely outstanding.

 

Scully had a great save at 0-0, but his woeful kicking obviously affected his confidence, was then glued to his line which resulted in our deep line as said further up the thread.

 

Frustated, we've held the lead in the Hibs game, the County game, the Aberdeen game, the Rangers game, and today. 5 out of 7 league games we have held the lead at some point, of those 5 games, with 15 points at stake, we've amassed 3 points.

[Big Col]

The failure to win today lies firmly with the management team. Again. Everyone in the stadium could see we were falling deeper and deeper. People around me were on their feet urging the players to get out, push up and stop just humping the ball forward giving it straight back to Hearts, have some composure and choose a pass. I would have thought the manager and his assistant would be on their feet giving the same instruction and doing their dingers. But no. Just remained seated in the dugout completely impassive. And then take off a striker for a midfielder, a defensive move aimed solely at attempting to defend a one goal lead. 2 minutes later, they equalise.

 

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. And not for the first time.

[allyo]

Sorry. I know there are people who say we have to be more ambitious. But I refuse to be depressed about consecutive draws against 'Rangers' and Hearts. We're doing ok just now and some big matches are coming up.

 

However...

 

I do think we were capable of winning today. We played better football than Hearts but sat too deep for the second half until they scored. Maybe tiredness came into it. People can say that fatigue is not an excuse for professional sportsmen. But if the professional sportsmen you're playing against are less fatigued then it's going to make a difference at any level.

 

I also think you have to admit that being ahead five times and surrendering it five times out of five is grating. But I think the only way out of this is through building the confidence that we can hold a lead. So. Thistle fans have to keep the faith. I still genuinely believe this is a very good team, and not one that's underperforming necessarily, just needing to believe in itself a bit more.

 

Far from pathetic.

Edited September 23, 2017 by allyo

[Gnome on the Bing]

Most would have taken a point before the game, so in a strange way the fact we're disappointed now is a positive thing. It reflects the fact that we could have taken all three points. For me, it's clear that injuries are taking their toll on our pattern of play. In particular, the injuries to Booth and Dumbuya mean that we're less effective down the flanks, which is particularly problematic when playing with wing-backs. Elliot does a solid job on the left but his attacking play is curbed by being on the 'wrong' flank. And while McGinn has made a solid start to his Thistle career he's nowhere near a fit Dumbuya in terms of providing an attacking threat. Staying on injuries: the value of Osman should now be clear to his detractors. He shields the back 3/4 more effectively than Barton/Edwards/Bannigan and is more composed in possession than many give him credit. But perhaps the most significant detrimental impact of his absence concerns the relocation of Barton to the middle of the pitch to fill the Ozzy-shaped gap. As I've argued previously, Adam is a far more effective as the central defender in a back 3. We could really have done with him there today, as we needed someone who could distribute the ball effectively from the back and who could also step into midfield to create options further up the field. I've noticed in recent weeks that teams will stand off of our central defenders when they're in possession. I doubt that would be the case if Barton was in there, as his distribution is far more polished.

 

But, at the end of the day we've got a point in spite of these injury issues. The back three were sound defensively and Spittal was superb again (what were Utd thinking?). It's true that we dropped too deep too early in the second half, but halting that is easier said than done.

[stillresigned]

I agree with most on here that at some point after Christy had to go off, we decided it would be a good idea to surrender the initiative dropped further and further back: virtually asking Hearts to equalise. Our ability to hold onto our lead was certainly not helped by Scully's at best ideosyncratic and at worst plain awful clearances.

The worrying thing today was that this was a poor Hearts' side, against whom we scorned numerous chances to put the game to bed in the first hal alone.

As others have said taking of Dools for Brannigan was a retrograde move: which I imagine send a signal to the players that we were going to try and see it out at 1-0. If Dools had picked up a knock I'll be first in line to apologise to Archie and Co.

It's now beginning to heap pressure on us, particularly as in their current form Motherwell, must be pretty strong favourites to win our next encounter Not time to panic in my book, but it will start to raise some concerns if we don't start winning fairly shortly after that?

[jagfaelivi]

Still gutted at this recurring pattern when we sit back. Several times everybody was within 25 yards of our goal line and if it came to a defender he lumped it up the park to? Nobody!! And back it came with nobody willing to make a tackle and they crossed it over for us to desperately defend.

 

Watched Archie's interview and can hardly believe it. We maybe looked comfortable to him. We certainly didn't look comfortable to most of the people round me.

 

Why, having been so defensive, were we able to suddenly become an attacking force in the last ten minutes again? Was it change in manpower?

 

Surely Archie could see that attacking them was our best bet. Look what Motherwell did to Aberdeen on Thursday, never gave them a minute. We went all lily livered and sat back. There was no, dare I say once again, Scott Brown type figure to spur us on.

 

And I think people are being unfair on Ryan Scully. When did we EVER see Tam Cerny come for a ball? Not in my time watching so why is Scully taking flak?

[allyo]

I think given that we still have killie, Dundee and Accies to play, probably the worst three teams in the league, and we've been frustrated, and suffering injuries, and are still in touch, and we're now 4 (tough) games unbeaten over 90 minutes, it's way off panic time.

[Yellow & Redneck]

We haven't won in the league since the 8th April. That tells its own story. Archie hasn't been able to steady the ship over the summer, and we are just picking up where we left off last season. Worried that we aren't going to get third season lucky.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Yellow & Redneck

[allyo]

Really don't see it that way. We're punching above our weight financially and virtually every game since April has been against a top six team. We're not exactly cruising but we're not sinking either.

 

Said before, biggest danger is confidence crashing and that can come from negative vibes from the support. If that doesn't happen I'm very confident we can get back to winning ways.

[Third Lanark]

Most would have taken a point before the game, so in a strange way the fact we're disappointed now is a positive thing. It reflects the fact that we could have taken all three points. For me, it's clear that injuries are taking their toll on our pattern of play. In particular, the injuries to Booth and Dumbuya mean that we're less effective down the flanks, which is particularly problematic when playing with wing-backs. Elliot does a solid job on the left but his attacking play is curbed by being on the 'wrong' flank. And while McGinn has made a solid start to his Thistle career he's nowhere near a fit Dumbuya in terms of providing an attacking threat. Staying on injuries: the value of Osman should now be clear to his detractors. He shields the back 3/4 more effectively than Barton/Edwards/Bannigan and is more composed in possession than many give him credit. But perhaps the most significant detrimental impact of his absence concerns the relocation of Barton to the middle of the pitch to fill the Ozzy-shaped gap. As I've argued previously, Adam is a far more effective as the central defender in a back 3. We could really have done with him there today, as we needed someone who could distribute the ball effectively from the back and who could also step into midfield to create options further up the field. I've noticed in recent weeks that teams will stand off of our central defenders when they're in possession. I doubt that would be the case if Barton was in there, as his distribution is far more polished.

 

But, at the end of the day we've got a point in spite of these injury issues. The back three were sound defensively and Spittal was superb again (what were Utd thinking?). It's true that we dropped too deep too early in the second half, but halting that is easier said than done.

while McGinn might not be as good as a fit Dumbaya the sad reality is that we have only had great performances from Dumbaya for his first 3 months in 2 over years otherwise he has been injured or below par. Remember today is only McGinns third game he's still settling in - let's see how he is getting on after 3 months before we can do a proper comparison to Dumbaya

[Winter of '63]

I suppose a draw was fair enough but as with the Aberdeen game, the final result felt a little disappointing. Hearts had a lot of possession early on but true to Craig Levein's International reputation they looked like a hard-working side totally without guile and our three centre halves coped comfortably. A clever run by Blair Spittal put him clean through...his sclaffed shot nutmegged the big butter-fingered Hearts keeper for the funniest goal at Firhill for years.

 

We seemed in control of the game up to half-time but Hearts stepped up their running in the second half. They didn't really cause too many problems - numerous high balls into the box were fairly easily dealt with by our defence. However, some poor kicks by Scully, some unnecessarily panicky clearances and a lack of presence in midfield had us pushed back too deep...and we have seen this movie before with the concession of a soft goal late in the game.

 

We had five decent chances in the final 10 minutes which made inviting Hearts to come forward for most of the second half all the more galling. I actually thought that Bannigan for Doolan was the right substitution - Dools was looking a bit tired but we were crying out for someone to hold on to the ball and make short simple passes - Banzo is a much better midfielder than Edwards or Barton and would have liked to see him start. Barton was excellent last season in a 3-man central defence and while he had some great touches, he lost possession often and wasn't strong or quick enough in the tackle.

 

Spittal was impessive although he tired, Storey had some good runs but didn't link up too well with his team-mates, McGinn was ok and did well when switched to left back. Keown was tenacious in defence...and although I was a regular critic of Christie Elliott over the years, he has turned into a decent left back - that looked a sore one he took, with a knock on the head and the ankle.

[Lionel J. Botch]

And I think people are being unfair on Ryan Scully. When did we EVER see Tam Cerny come for a ball? Not in my time watching so why is Scully taking flak?

 

This. Scully has made some great saves in the last few games. So he stays on his line and his distribution could improve. Does Cerny command his box? He's hardly Messi with the ball at his feet either.

Scully is a back up keeper, a decent one. He's not as good as Cerny granted.

How do you get a better keeper, commanding his box, great passing ability to sit on the bench for Thistle?

The way we sit back and let teams come on to us you could play the both of them and we'd still lose goals.

 

[Weebaw1]

For the 1st time this season, in the 2nd half we looked like a bottom of the table team.

 

We had no idea how to retain possession. Midfield were utterly useless and it just doesn't work with dual strikers. Thought Dools should've gone at ht to be replaced by Lawless or Banzo. Spittal looked a million dollars 1st half, liability 2nd. He needs a fitness regime to bulk up and for durability.

 

If we are playing a back 3 Elliot should play on the right. He is becoming a terrific asset at fb but teams know he has no left foot. McGinn looked happy on the left. Let's hope the injury is not serious. Nitriansky did fine though.

 

We need more creativity in midfield which should improve with Erskine's return.

 

 

 

[gianlucatoni]

disappointing to let that mob back into it today - worked hard in first half to make them look woeful but sat progressively deeper in 2nd half allowing them to have go after go.

 

as for their 'goal' cannot really comment - was too focused on our failure to anticipate and get 2 out to short corner, allow those 2 to play a their two passes, get in an unchallenged cross and then a free header - just caught it as it was cleared was too busy effing and blinding so like many others will need to see the crap quality footage on sportscene which will reveal the sum total of f*k all but officials were quick to award so linesman must have been on the line or questions will have to be asked

 

as I'm a keeper the missus kept asking me if Scully knew he's meant to be a goalie as he looked quite 'lazy' - a few times he should have commanded his box for long balls over the top and got out to take pressure off backtracking defenders - he should also have been booting the defenders at*es and getting them higher up the pitch but I didn't notice much communication between keeper and back 4, tipped one over the bar that was sailing over & should have left it and the kicking at times was sub standard (bye-kicks not reaching half way should not be happening)

[J465]

The failure to win today lies firmly with the management team. Again. Everyone in the stadium could see we were falling deeper and deeper. People around me were on their feet urging the players to get out, push up and stop just humping the ball forward giving it straight back to Hearts, have some composure and choose a pass. I would have thought the manager and his assistant would be on their feet giving the same instruction and doing their dingers. But no. Just remained seated in the dugout completely impassive. And then take off a striker for a midfielder, a defensive move aimed solely at attempting to defend a one goal lead. 2 minutes later, they equalise.

 

Pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. And not for the first time.

A bit ott Col. I was asking for Banagan to replace any of our front three as the midfield were tierring but the timing of the sub is not the issue but the defence switching off. I think the Elliott sub was more of an impact.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

 

Midfield were utterly useless and it just doesn't work with dual strikers.

 

If we are playing a back 3 Elliot should play on the right. He is becoming a terrific asset at fb but teams know he has no left foot.

 

Careful what you're saying, Weebaw. There's folk on here who believe playing two up is the epitome of attacking football.

 

Coming from different viewpoints perhaps but probably still agreeing about midfield. I didn't think Spittal, Edwards or Barton had poor games but I don't believe that trio offer enough collectively to compete against a four man (sometimes five man) midfield.

 

Sense Archie continued with the three centrebacks to ease McGinn into the team and help Christie playing on his poorer side. When we reverted to two centrebacks later on v sevco the other night McGinn struggled a bit. Disagree slightly re Elliott. He's put in some good crosses with his left this season (eg one Doolan should've scored from v Celtic) Didn't think McGinn looked any more at home on the left than Christie. Regardless the manager and the players themselves will work that one out soon enough. Hopefully Elliott is ok.

 

Once again we've played a game where we really should've been able to lose one goal and still come out winners. Felt not getting a second goal in the first half was our worst failing today. Not scoring in the second half was largely down to the ball not running for us. Mostly bad luck tho' lack of composure played a part.

[B C]

I said to my pal just after 60 mins the game would finish 1-1. We parked the bus and essentially had 4 centre backs in a line as Barton joined the 3.

 

Edwards is not a footballer, he's a fit bumblebee that buzzes around looking busy but even he ended up almost in defence. That meant we had no midfield leaving Doolan and Storey isolated. Bannigan should have in there for Edwards. Storey is a 2 goal a season striker, it ll be up to Doolan, Spittal and Erskine this season. 10th is the target no doubt about that.

 

Scully is rooted to his line, for a guys that loves himself so much to be a model he has no confidence coming for crosses, it was obvious the defence had no confidence in him. Turnbull and Devine were brilliant today considering the midfield in front of them letting Hearts forward. Keown will earn another 2-3 red cards this season. Still very raw and if we do go back to 2 Turnbull and Devine for me.

 

Archie also has no faith in youth it seems. We are now 3 years in to ThistleWeir without a player in the first team. Looks good on paper but it's a failure at the moment. The fact he won't even fill the bench shows that. Has no faith in McCarthy who is Davie Wilson II and Nisbet will never cut it at this level. Saw a stat that we have fielded the least amount of players under 20 in the league. Says it all.

[gianlucatoni]

[Auld Jag]

I think the ball is over the line.Looking at Devine he is well over the line when he heads it clear and as has already been said none of our players protest.I didn't notice at the game but when you see the clip above our defence is so slow to get back and try and cover the corner.I think we shall continue to be pushed back in the last 10minutes of games until we get a win under our belt.At the moment we need to score at least 2 to win a game although we scored 3 against Aberdeen and still lost.

[MonehJags]

Watching the Motherwell game the other night, they had fighters all over the park, never stopped closing down, never gave Aberdeen a minute on the ball. We allow teams to play and ultimately score. Next week we will surrender possession every time because when were closed down we don't know what to do and kick it away as quick as we can.

 

Its time to stop using the 'wee team' excuse. Its Archie's job to find a way to win. Take a leaf out of Hamilton and Motherwell's books. Keep the ball out of our half and attack because we certainly cant defend. Until then we will continue to drop points and we will be lucky to stay up this year

Edited September 24, 2017 by MonehJags

[clarencegarter]

Has Archie taken this team as far as he can? In my opinion yes. Not won a league game since 7th of April is an embarrassment no matter what teams we are playing. The board has brought in better players no doubt about that but the same mistakes are being made and we haven't improved.

I'm not saying sack Archie as I have no idea who to bring in. But serious questions need to be asked about the management team.

[Lenziejag]

I suppose a draw was fair enough but as with the Aberdeen game, the final result felt a little disappointing. Hearts had a lot of possession early on but true to Craig Levein's International reputation they looked like a hard-working side totally without guile and our three centre halves coped comfortably. A clever run by Blair Spittal put him clean through...his sclaffed shot nutmegged the big butter-fingered Hearts keeper for the funniest goal at Firhill for years.

 

We seemed in control of the game up to half-time but Hearts stepped up their running in the second half. They didn't really cause too many problems - numerous high balls into the box were fairly easily dealt with by our defence. However, some poor kicks by Scully, some unnecessarily panicky clearances and a lack of presence in midfield had us pushed back too deep...and we have seen this movie before with the concession of a soft goal late in the game.

 

We had five decent chances in the final 10 minutes which made inviting Hearts to come forward for most of the second half all the more galling. I actually thought that Bannigan for Doolan was the right substitution - Dools was looking a bit tired but we were crying out for someone to hold on to the ball and make short simple passes - Banzo is a much better midfielder than Edwards or Barton and would have liked to see him start. Barton was excellent last season in a 3-man central defence and while he had some great touches, he lost possession often and wasn't strong or quick enough in the tackle.

 

Spittal was impessive although he tired, Storey had some good runs but didn't link up too well with his team-mates, McGinn was ok and did well when switched to left back. Keown was tenacious in defence...and although I was a regular critic of Christie Elliott over the years, he has turned into a decent left back - that looked a sore one he took, with a knock on the head and the ankle.

 

It is funny how people see things differently. Barton had his best game of the season today, I thought. Doolan hadn't done anything. I also thought McGinn had a really good game at right back and has got a fair bit of pace, although I think he struggled when moved over to left back at least initially.

[allyo]

Looks a really tight call as to whether it was over the line