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Possession A Problem?


angry gaz
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After the disaster of the Dundee result I had look at our possession stats this season and there is a clear pattern. The less possession we have the better result we seem to have outwith game against the old firm . Less in the dundee victory ,the Motherwell victory the st johnstone victory .Also less in most of the good draws we've had too. When we have bad defeats we also seem to have more possession than the opponents too.

Not quite sure what this actually tells us, should we completely change our style , pack the middle and defence and go for counter attacking only. Are we basically just shite when we have the ball?

The facts seem to suggest the more we have of the ball the more likely we are to lose.

We are on the brink if something does not change.

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I just looked it up on the bbc reports.

Watching the Dundee game on Alba just now and I can see why the possession stats are correct. We are having a long spell of of possession and doing nothing with it.Every move ends with a Totally ineffectual long cross. . We are playing toothless possession football

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Possession stats can be quite misleading. Thistle are so ponderous in their neat but across-the-park build-up that possession stats look more impressive than meaningful and the opposition get back before we get seriously into their half. Watched the match on Alba without knowing the score. Actually worse than being there for some bizarre reason. I wonder if the players have an end of season kitty for a "hit the first defender with your cross" competition.

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Possession stats can be quite misleading. Thistle are so ponderous in their neat but across-the-park build-up that possession stats look more impressive than meaningful and the opposition get back before we get seriously into their half. Watched the match on Alba without knowing the score. Actually worse than being there for some bizarre reason. I wonder if the players have an end of season kitty for a "hit the first defender with your cross" competition.

 

or a hit your nearest team mate with the ball when trying to clear the ball in the box?

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Possession is nothing unless you do something meaningful with it.

 

Spurs had more possession than Man City in the first half yesterday but barely got out their half. Spent the whole time playing the ball across the back without going anywhere. Sound familiar?

 

Out of all the injured players I’d argue we’re missing Elliot, Booth and to a lesser extent Dumbuya (he’s never fit). We have no attacking options down the flanks without these guys which serious limits our ability to get in behind the opposition.

 

 

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I think Leicester City won the league with about 40% possession

 

I think we match up pretty well with Leicester's title winning squad. Storey is faster than Vardy, Erskine is trickier than Mahrez, Sammon is stronger than Ulloa, and Doolan is more prolific than Okazaki. Will Michael Max be presenting Jagzone Live in his underpants next season?

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but the thing is ,outwith the old firm and aberdeen games ,we seem to do better with less possession. Why is that? Is it that the more possession we have the slower our build up is.

 

Because we're better on the counter. Creating moves, as opposed to reacting to circumstances, is not something we're good at; as has been said, we are ponderous on the ball, preferring to pass it to and fro across the back line and allowing the opposition to organise its defence. Along with the inability to beat a man, that snuffs out any attacking threat even before anyone has taken the ball forward.

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Because we're better on the counter. Creating moves, as opposed to reacting to circumstances, is not something we're good at; as has been said, we are ponderous on the ball, preferring to pass it to and fro across the back line and allowing the opposition to organise its defence. Along with the inability to beat a man, that snuffs out any attacking threat even before anyone has taken the ball forward.

I think as teams have adopted a wing back style over the years, counter attacking has become more prevalent and more successful for most teams with intelligent quick thinking footballers.

 

Not too many teams should get the joy of counter attacking against us as our wing backs cross the ball from the half way line.

 

One thing that did interest me about Dundee was the way they collected most passes with their backs to goal.

This can be normal for some hold up play type forwards, but they did it all over the park.

 

It may have been a ploy against us as we are so impatient and dive in from behind instead of just holding them up so they need to go backwards.

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Revealing interview with Adam Barton (in English) at half time during Alba's coverage of the Dundee game. Said that retaining possession was his number one priority when on the ball. So that would be why he often wanders sideways or backwards with the ball, waiting for some off the ball movement from his teammates, to the benefit of possession statistics. But too often it ends with a misplaced pass, or being dispossessed by an opponent's tackle.

 

Also said that, looking beyond football, he is terrified of sustaining a serious injury, based on a couple of bad ones earlier in his career. That would explain his reluctance to tackle. You have to wonder if he was as open with Thistle before he signed.

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Surely, this is something that we want?

 

People on here are always screaming about needing someone that can put their foot on the ball and retain possession while looking for an intelligent pass to a team mate in space or making a run. Barton won all his accolades last season for doing just that.

 

Angry Gaz asks a fair question then in the OP, "are we just shite in possession?".

 

At the moment, I don't think we are lacking in quality (my mum says that's the same as shite and doesn't get you into trouble at school or on a forum) we are just lacking the dig, bite and drive that comes from a settled, confident team that are used to playing alongside the same players game after game.

 

Possession is the starting point and it shows that we are not being over-run by the teams around us but they are proving to be more effective at forcing errors from us when we have the ball.

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I think we match up pretty well with Leicester's title winning squad. Storey is faster than Vardy, Erskine is trickier than Mahrez, Sammon is stronger than Ulloa, and Doolan is more prolific than Okazaki. Will Michael Max be presenting Jagzone Live in his underpants next season?

 

How do you know I'm not this season?

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Revealing interview with Adam Barton (in English) at half time during Alba's coverage of the Dundee game. Said that retaining possession was his number one priority when on the ball. So that would be why he often wanders sideways or backwards with the ball, waiting for some off the ball movement from his teammates, to the benefit of possession statistics. But too often it ends with a misplaced pass, or being dispossessed by an opponent's tackle. Also said that, looking beyond football, he is terrified of sustaining a serious injury, based on a couple of bad ones earlier in his career. That would explain his reluctance to tackle. You have to wonder if he was as open with Thistle before he signed.

 

I seen that interview and thought it was very telling and revealing. I've heard archie say before how much he likes to stretch teams by playing the ball from one wing to the other and given what Barton said it seems like that is his role . The frustrating thing now is he hardly ever makes a proper forward pass. It slows the build up and lets teams back in numbers to defend.Barton is a huge problem in the team at the moment but it may be as much as what he is being asked to do also. The fact he shits out of so many tackles probably is due to his injuries but he is only going to get a more serious injury going in for tackles half hearted and with no conviction I cant believe.how long we have just continued like this all season.

His interview on Jagzone too said a lo.The Guy seemed if he was really hurting and confused about what else he can do.

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^^^^^^^^

 

Agree with that A.G.

 

His interview on Jagzone at Dens was the same. Feel for the guy, he's being very open and holding his hands up. If he's being asked to stretch the play wide then he's certainly what he's been asked.

 

I agree that his fear of the tackle is more likely to result in harm.

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What about by each 1/2. Pretty sure we had more possession in 1st half.

Thats a good point.I don't know but I would say probably yes.Our victories have been strange this season were we seem to have more possession in the first half mabey sneaking a goal and then falling back for the entire second and hanging on for grim death.

Not sure what it means in terms of tactics and formation but it means something.,

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Hard to pin down the effect of the possession stat on overall results but certainly seems to be some correlation. This season for every chance we have created the opposition have created two. This suggests that we generally don’t create enough goal scoring chances. Even when we’ve scored three against Aberdeen I think we scored with every shot on target?

I think this largely stems from the issues in midfield, which have a knock on effect up front and at the back.

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again 55% to county and a win for us. Is this the way we are now set up to play by conceding possession and territory and draw teams up the park to leave space at the back of the opposition. As Lenziejag highlights though we seem to have more possession in the first half of games but our style and tactics always seem to change second half or even if we score first.

Cant say our time wasting from the start of the second half was entertaining though. If an opposition team was doing that we'd be going mental. I really didn't enjoy that aspect of our game and if we are resorting to tactics like that to beat ross county at home then we have a long way to go.

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