The Rangers 6/2/18

[Fearchar]

7 hours ago, Hopeless Unbeliever said:

This is just absolute shite and is seriously calling into question the professionalism and integrity of our manager, staff and players. We were playing one of the best teams in the league, who retain the ball well and make you do a lot of running to compete with them - it's inevitable in games like these we will do more chasing and are therefore likely to tire quicker. We don't have the luxury of a squad the size of Rangers so can't bring the same level of reinforcements either to cover injuries or from the bench. We had two central midfielders both of whom are still making their way back from injury and who played well on Saturday (I'd like to have seen Archie trust McCarthy to cover but that's a side issue). There is absolutely zero evidence that we have a fitness problem compared to other teams at our level, indeed we've seen games out well against Ross County, St Johnstone and Hamilton recently (scoring fine counter attacking goals in two of those games). We even managed a last minute equaliser against Rangers earlier in the season, and should have had one against Celtic.

There are clearly issues with our results against the Old Firm that predate this squad of players and managers but to lay the blame for this on our fitness levels is just utter nonsense. 

It might help your argument if you kept your language civil. It might also help if comments about the performance of the physical conditioning staff were not responded to as if they referred to all the staff.

On to the situation as it seems to be. Yesterday evening I was informed that this team drops leads more often than any others in our division, which I can well believe. The goal difference is the worst in our division. Long-term injuries have been a problem to a greater extent than for any other club in the same division, and possibly the whole league. That is compounded by players that have apparently returned to fitness and ready to play again being injured almost instantly. In one case, a player just signed picked up an injury before even playing. If these don't ring alarm bells,...

On the good side, the players that have performed for a whole game for us are Edwards (scorer of the goal in extra time v St Johnstone), Sammon and (before his injury) Elliott. The first, being Australian, is a sports fanatic - it goes with the nationality! The second is on loan and probably feels he'll have to work extra hard to get settled (whether with Hearts or with us). The last studied sports science. It's not hard to imagine that all three do their own extra fitness training for their own aims. Exclude them, and we have a squad that lacks stamina. The concession of a goal to Motherwell at Fir Park was part of a pattern which has been evident all season, where the team lacks resilience later in the game.

Of course, some people might prefer assertions of mental weakness like "heads down" or point to finance to explain poor performance. IMHO it's more sensible to look at the evidence in the play and assume that professional footballers don't give up before the final whistle.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Fearchar

[Duke Gekantawa]

50 minutes ago, Fearchar said:

It might help your argument if you kept your language civil. It might also help if comments about the performance of the physical conditioning staff were not responded to as if they referred to all the staff.

On to the situation as it seems to be. Yesterday evening I was informed that this team drops leads more often than any others in our division, which I can well believe. The goal difference is the worst in our division. Long-term injuries have been a problem to a greater extent than for any other club in the same division, and possibly the whole league. That is compounded by players that have apparently returned to fitness and ready to play again being injured almost instantly. In one case, a player just signed picked up an injury before even playing. If these don't ring alarm bells,...

On the good side, the players that have performed for a whole game for us are Edwards (scorer of the goal in extra time v St Johnstone), Sammon and (before his injury) Elliott. The first, being Australian, is a sports fanatic - it goes with the nationality! The second is on loan and probably feels he'll have to work extra hard to get settled (whether with Hearts or with us). The last studied sports science. It's not hard to imagine that all three do their own extra fitness training for their own aims. Exclude them, and we have a squad that lacks stamina. The concession of a goal to Motherwell at Fir Park was part of a pattern which has been evident all season, where the team lacks resilience later in the game.

Of course, some people might prefer assertions of mental weakness like "heads down" or point to finance to explain poor performance. IMHO it's more sensible to look at the evidence in the play and assume that professional footballers don't give up before the final whistle.

I still believe that the main reason we lose so many leads, isn't so much a fitness issue, but rather because we go into the final 10/15 minutes into games with a single goal lead more  often than other teams. The positive side of this is that we often take the lead (many teams don't lose leads simply because they rarely have the lead to lose). The negative side is that we so rarely score the killer second (or third) goal. Certainly, logically, there is more to the bare statistic that "we lose the lead more often than others". To make proposer comparison for such a statistic, factors such as the number of times a lead is obtained, and the number of times that other teams enter the final stages defending a one goal lead must be taken into account.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

I have came away from recent Celtic and Rangers games disappointed at the result and our stay at home fans but pleased with effort, tactics and positive performances.

[Lenziejag]

3 hours ago, jaggy said:

Difficult to judge by a still photo, but if assistant is slightly behind play I can understand why he flagged 

From the angle we see it here, I would say the Rangers player 3 over is playing Edwards on. I guess the linesman only sees the guy next to Edwards

[stillresigned]

I'm convinced that we have psychological problem believing that we are capable of beating either Sevco or Sellick.

in the latter case that may or may not be justified, but certainly not in the latter: even allowing for Muty's improvements to his side. To be honest I am not a fool, I know that if you are facing much better players you tir physically and mentally. However, I'm not convinced that Sevco are on some higher plane of footballing existence: rather that our players and management think that they are.

[Weebaw1]

They scored 2 great goals. We scored 1 great goal and missed another by a whisker.

We played ok with some good performances esp. McGinn, Sammon and Edwards. So, please no talk of shi#tbagging. 

However it continues to irk that we cannot get a result against the Uglies while other teams of similar standing do. I just think we're too nice.  The linesmen last night were both clearly favouring Sevco  (although the ref was ok). Not one complaint about the disallowed goal or about the clown in the stand side. Even the fans couldn't be bothered firing into them.

I never thought Docherty was a brilliant player but he gave the opposition no respect whatsoever, no matter who they are.  He was a nuisance to play against. We should have not allowed that wee Holt to dictate to the referee and  our nice midfield chaps the way he did. We should've been all over him like a rash. Morelos should have been given a torrid reception and their big CH should've been told just how garbage he really is. Imagine Dougie Somner playing against that boy. He would have terrified from the start. 

Lets start on Saturday by getting right under the skin of Scott Brown. That would be start. Remind Sinclair of how good he is at simulation and threaten Forrest with assault(discretely). Get in the referee's ear. And stay down! Like they do.

 

 

I

 

 

[Jaggernaut]

13 hours ago, a f kincaid said:

Agree with this.  No-one would deny that our recent record v Rangers is bitterly disappointing - 43 wins in 315 competitive matches split, broadly speaking, 23 from 158 before the war and 20 from 157 since 1946/47.  Last night makes it 6 draws and 24 defeats in the last 30.  But what do people seriously expect?   For most if not all of that time Rangers have enjoyed vastly superior resources.    It's inevitable that players paid 5/10/15 times what Thistle's players earn can  turn a game with moments of individual quality  even if  at that point the underdog is "in with a shout".  To suggest that the players are losing games because they are not fit enough/giving up is very unfair.  We could have snatched a goal in the last minute last night and finished strongly against agricultural Motherwell on Saturday (eg, Spittal).   Physical, no.  Psychological, probably.  

Nothing wrong with anything you've written, but to answer your question "What do people seriously expect?": I'd suggest the kind of result that Celtic, Hibs, Hamilton, Dundee, St Johnstone and Killie have all managed against them this season. The fact that we haven't got a win against them in decades is simply not acceptable, and people who suggest that Thistle in particular have a small-team mentality when it comes to playing the two erse cheeks have got it right, imo. It starts from the administrative arrangements every time we play them, and goes right through the management, players, and yes, many supporters.

[Jaggernaut]

11 hours ago, allyo said:

I don't actually think we have a mentality problem in important games at all. Our problem, if anything, is that we don't treat Celtic and 'Rangers' games as important, and take the view that anything's a bonus. I'm not saying that's right, but I suppose if it's about managing the season there may be some justification. Our record in the real crunch games under Archie is very good.

I get what you are saying there: we don't treat those games as important, meaning that we have no expectation of winning.... but that is exactly a mentality problem, because those games are just as important (if not more so!) than others, especially when other teams around us are able to get wins against one or other of the cheeks.

[Jaggernaut]

10 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

I know it's becoming almost a mantra that first goal is so important in this league. Normally I tend to disagree in so much that the benefit of scoring first is virtually the same in any game of football anywhere. I do tho' agree that against top end of the league opposition, who are likely to tire out their opponents,  getting first goal is rather vital. 

The BBC preview of the match on Tuesday stated that no other team in the Premiership had lost more points after being a goal ahead than....Thistle!

 

Sigh. We're just not very good these days. Our only hope in reality is that a couple of teams are even worse between now and the end of the season.

[Jaggernaut]

9 hours ago, jaggy said:

Difficult to judge by a still photo, but if assistant is slightly behind play I can understand why he flagged 

That would mean that he simply guessed, which is not acceptable. Unless he is sure, he should not flag.

[kevin energy]

I would love to know when it was unacceptable not to beat the oldfirm surely it was a bonus if we did beat them.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

11 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

That would mean that he simply guessed, which is not acceptable. Unless he is sure, he should not flag.

The fact he's running the line alongside half of the JHS, and thus within a couple of yards of some of the scummiest football supporters around, might just be enough  encouragement for him to wave his wee flag. 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

So, in the three games of the final pre-split cycle, comparing against the first cycle, which we are now repeating, we are as follows:

St J: 1st cycle L; 3rd cycle W

Motherwell: L     D

Rangers: D     L

So by my reckoning, we’re 3 points ahead of the standard we set earlier in the season.

 

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

10 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

The fact he's running the line alongside half of the JHS, and thus within a couple of yards of some of the scummiest football supporters around, might just be enough  encouragement for him to wave his wee flag. 

Pardon me for quoting myself but.............https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/officials-swayed-rangers-celtic-fans-11990580

[Hankey]

21 hours ago, allyo said:

Don't get how in the same post you can criticise the team for a small-club attitude, showing too much respect; and the go on to say that Saturday is a write-off

There's got to be a sense of realism in it. We were beaten at home by an under strength, average Rangers team, we now go to play Celtic on their ground who haven't lost a domestic game at home in how long? This prior to three huge matches. I personally don't want to see anyone risked with any concerns given the problems we've had keeping players fit all season.

[Fearchar]

14 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

The BBC preview of the match on Tuesday stated that no other team in the Premiership had lost more points after being a goal ahead than....Thistle!

 

Sigh. We're just not very good these days. Our only hope in reality is that a couple of teams are even worse between now and the end of the season.

It seems that either we explain performances by psychological profiling of the team (and who of us on this forum really has experience of that kind?) or we accept that physical resilience is lacking or it's simply an inexplicable mystery. Given the record of injuries and re-injuries, it seems difficult to argue that strength and fitness are up to standard - and the BBC preview mentioned above is an indication of the same. The good thing about that is that problem is that it can be put right; the bad things are that it's being left very late in the season and there's still no sign that the problem is being tackled.

Let's hope that other teams around ours start losing, because so far injuries and the inability to hold on to leads have left us scrambling at the bottom.

[Duke Gekantawa]

20 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

The BBC preview of the match on Tuesday stated that no other team in the Premiership had lost more points after being a goal ahead than....Thistle!

 

Sigh. We're just not very good these days. Our only hope in reality is that a couple of teams are even worse between now and the end of the season.

7 times we’ve dropped points in the league from winning positions. However 5 of them were in the first 7 games during the undoubtedly dreadful start we had. So only twice in the last 18 games then (one of them against Celtic). 

The reason we are where we are is that poor start. Our form since then has been average/mid-table. Good enough to catch the pack and, should we maintain that form, good enough for safety.