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The Battle of New Douglas Park


jagfox
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6 hours ago, jagfox said:

Time for talking is over. Need to get a win whatever which way but lose...

 

Out of all the remaining games before the split imo this  is the most winnable.Lose and I think we are down.We had a great chance last Saturday and blew it,we wont get any more.In the past we have stayed up because of our results against the teams around about us.Our next 2 games are the type  we should be looking to win and if we play as we can we are good enough to win them.

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We have 6 games left before the split ,  a possible 18 points available .we have by far the hardest run in of games compared to others around us..     Hamilton and St Johnstone have got 2 games in hand over us   it does not look  to  clever...I cant  see us  getting  any more than 4 points from our remaining games pre  split. The last 7 minutes on Saturday  have really put us in the mire............

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The pitch seems really peculiar. When we played there one night earlier in the season it was just horrible and the only semi-effective tactic was the spinning punt in the hope it would disorientate the defence and hold up for an attacking player. Yet time and time the ball bounced or skidded out of play. The teams could have played all night while never looking remotely like scoring.

However, at the weekend Hamilton and Sevco shared 8 goals and the inevitable mistakes were punctuated by some good flowing moves. Is it the weather and/or the temperature and/or the time of day which dictates how the pitch behaves and how the game has to be played? Hopefully it will facilitate some reasonable football as I suspect that the better the game, the more likely we are to win with our pace, strength and skill, whereas if it degenerates into a mediocre grind we are less well equipped to dig out the victory.

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3 hours ago, Jimmy McD said:

We have 6 games left before the split ,  a possible 18 points available .we have by far the hardest run in of games compared to others around us..     Hamilton and St Johnstone have got 2 games in hand over us   it does not look  to  clever...I cant  see us  getting  any more than 4 points from our remaining games pre  split. The last 7 minutes on Saturday  have really put us in the mire............

The hardest run in and the hardest start.

Not how I'd prefer it but some say it balances itself out over the season.

The games might but the damage a poor start does can never be 'balanced' out. And as for the finish, well that just compounds that damage.

We have a small window in the middle to overcome the bad start, drag ourselves back into a relegation battle in time for a most probably pointless finish.

A bit like in the cup where we get all the hard teams away from home in the early rounds.

If we could just get past them, it would even itself out and we'd get Falkirk at home or something. 

 

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The original poster is 100% correct: the time for talking is over. All season long it's been "we played well in the first half" or "we didn't start well enough" or "we just lost concentration at the end" or "we need to put games away"....

Just get the f****** job done, Jags!

But the job that needs to be done isn't just against Accies; it's against other teams too, and that includes teams that are clearly stronger than us. Continue folding as we usually do, then we deserve to go down.

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All the debate about team selection, formation and playing players in/out of their best position has been irrelevant when more fundamental issues have determined results.  An evident lack of fitness, the players' lack of confidence, a failure to make timely and effective substitutions, and a lack of on-field leadership need to be addressed before another ball is kicked.  This is the time when Alan Archibald and his team really need to earn their corn. 

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Remaining fixtures pre-split.   Read 'em and weep.   Hoping for 3rd bottom on goal difference looks the best thing to do.  Conspiracy theorists will note the H and A split of fixtures.

Dundee

Motherwell H   Celtic A   St Johnstone H   Aberdeen A   Hearts H   Rangers A.   3 H/3 A.

 Hamilton

PT H   Hibs A   St Johstone A   Motherwell H   Kilmarnock H   Ross County A   Kilmarnock A   Celtic H.  4 H/4 A.

Ross County

St Johnstone A   PT H   Kilmarnock A   Hamilton H   Celtic A   Hibs H.   3 H/3 A

PT

Hamilton A   Ross County A   Aberdeen H   Hearts A   Hibs A   Kilmarnock H.   2 H/4 A

 

Edited by a f kincaid
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8 minutes ago, a f kincaid said:

Remaining fixtures pre-split.   Read 'em and weep.   Hoping for 3rd bottom on goal difference looks the best thing to do.  Conspiracy theorists will note the H and A split of fixtures.

Dundee

Motherwell H   Celtic A   St Johnstone H   Aberdeen A   Hearts H   Rangers A.   3 H/3 A.

 Hamilton

PT H   Hibs A   St Johstone A   Motherwell H   Kilmarnock H   Ross County A   Kilmarnock A   Celtic H.  4 H/4 A.

Ross County

St Johnstone A   PT H   Kilmarnock A   Hamilton H   Celtic A   Hibs H.   3 H/3 A

PT

Hamilton A   Ross County A   Aberdeen H   Hearts A   Hibs A   Kilmarnock H.   2 H/4 A

 

I look at that and genuinely don't see our run-in being significantly worse. I think that Dundee's is the most difficult, ours and Hamilton's on a par and county's maybe slightly easier. I suspect it will be tight going into the split. However, at least we likely won't have any meaningless games ;) 

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Incidentally, what about St. Johnstone? They're currently behind Dundee in the table (albeit with a couple of games in hand) and with the worst recent form (good result against Celtic on Sunday noted- but 3 wins in the last 18 league games and no wins in the last 7 does not make pretty reading). Make no mistake, they're in the mix.

Edited by Duke Gekantawa
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One game at a time.  One win breeds confidence again.  But this is one we will need to really earn over the 90.  

 

Hamilton will be looking at the last couple of weekends and thinking we're vulnerable, particularly in the first and last 10, so they'll be going at us.  A wildly optimistic person might say we could use that to counter.   This will be the standard NDP game for us.  Not a lot of quality predicted.

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22 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Hell of a surface to need to get a result on. Normally say a draw would be a better result for us than them, as I suppose it is, but we really need the 3pts. 

Line up: Don't have a clue. 

Prediction: This won't be a game for the purists. 

Except that they have 2 games in hand vs Killie and St J.

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23 hours ago, CotterJag said:

The hardest run in and the hardest start.

Not how I'd prefer it but some say it balances itself out over the season.

The games might but the damage a poor start does can never be 'balanced' out. And as for the finish, well that just compounds that damage.

We have a small window in the middle to overcome the bad start, drag ourselves back into a relegation battle in time for a most probably pointless finish.

A bit like in the cup where we get all the hard teams away from home in the early rounds.

If we could just get past them, it would even itself out and we'd get Falkirk at home or something. 

 

I think using a hard start and a hard run in is just an excuse.we have played 27 games now .Some of our better performances have been against the bigger teams and some of our worst performances have been against the teams  we should be beating,like Motherwell,Kilmarnock & Dundee.It is still in our own hands.But we need to win on Saturday.

Edited by Auld Jag
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10 hours ago, a f kincaid said:

Remaining fixtures pre-split.   Read 'em and weep.   Hoping for 3rd bottom on goal difference looks the best thing to do.  Conspiracy theorists will note the H and A split of fixtures.

Dundee

Motherwell H   Celtic A   St Johnstone H   Aberdeen A   Hearts H   Rangers A.   3 H/3 A.

 Hamilton

PT H   Hibs A   St Johstone A   Motherwell H   Kilmarnock H   Ross County A   Kilmarnock A   Celtic H.  4 H/4 A.

Ross County

St Johnstone A   PT H   Kilmarnock A   Hamilton H   Celtic A   Hibs H.   3 H/3 A

PT

Hamilton A   Ross County A   Aberdeen H   Hearts A   Hibs A   Kilmarnock H.   2 H/4 A

 

I am not sure any team has much of an advantage. Dundee’s fixtures are probably worse than ours. Hamilton probably only have 2 games they would “expect” to win and one of those is a derby. County look to have the most winnable games

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10 hours ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

I look at that and genuinely don't see our run-in being significantly worse. I think that Dundee's is the most difficult, ours and Hamilton's on a par and county's maybe slightly easier. I suspect it will be tight going into the split. However, at least we likely won't have any meaningless games ;) 

Oops - didn’t see this before I posted

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2 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

I think using a hard start and a hard run in is just an excuse.we have played 27 games now .Some of our better performances have been against the bigger teams and some of our worst performances have been against the teams  we should be beating,like Motherwell,Kilmarnock & Dundee.It is still in our own hands.But we need to win on Saturday.

I just don't see any teams in the league I think we should be beating and think any disadvantage, no matter how slight, is damaging to us.

I'm genuinely still happy at the end of the season if we avoid relegation by any means and think we're still building the foundations of a better Thistle.

This season has been difficult with lots of injuries, some poor performances and players that have yet to and may never recover from lengthy spells of rehabilitation.

I'm old enough to have seen worse times than this, as many of you are and am more than a bit proud to be as good as teams like Motherwell, St. Johnstone, Dundee and to be bitterly disappointed not to beat The Rangers, Hibs, Hearts and even Celtic a wee bit.

Despite the heartache of last minute defeats, this is a great time to be a Jag but then again, I guess it always has been and always will be:fan:

Now I've started a new job, I'll definitely be up for a game after the split.

I'm normally good for at least a draw, so we better hang on in there til then.

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2 huge games coming up. 2 wins are not out of the question but we need to be a lot smarter than Saturday's 2nd half performance.

Nobody mentioned that we have reverted to a back 4 in recent weeks . With the players we have, especially the mercurial Barton but also the attacking wing backs, we are probably better suited to a back 3. I wonder if this was at the back of Muzzy's mind as he continually  refused to attempt to hit the by line. ie concerned about the lack of cover.

If Christie is fit, I would play him as right wing back with Booth on the other flank. Barton at sweeper. If we continue as a back 4, McGinn is easily our best defensive RB but dont ask him to do much attacking.

If Woods and Osman are as unfit as they appeared on Saturday, have Woods on the bench and replace Osman at HT. Edwards becomes even more important.

Both games winnable with a positive attitude.

 

 

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The fans on here seem to be understanding the importance of this game let’s hope players and manager do as well.

Man for man thistle are a better team, I’m struggling to think of a current Hamilton player who would get a start in the Thistle side so the only thing that’s going to lose it is poor game management.

Hamilton will be well aware of the importance of this game and are at home on their dodgy surface so have an advantage. They are always a streetwise side and this will be a tough game for us -  selection needs to realise this. Much as we would like a free flowing attacking thistle side we need to keep this tight.  Taking our chances in front of goal will be the deciding factor.   A scrambled Doolan goal in the last five minutes will do me.

I would not ask Elliot to return in such a crucial game and I’m afraid Muzzy would have to be left out for his lack of confidence last week. McGinn back for me and possibly even Devine back in as he is a bit more aggressive than Keown and knows when to ‘take one for the team’. Personally I’d play both in a three at the back set up. I like Barton more than most on here but I would worry about his style in this sort of game.

I think we may need both Osman and Woods as long as they play to their strengths and Edwards energy will be important.  Not a game for Spittal he’s starting to get to me standing off players and not getting a tackle in, we don’t seem to get enough set pieces in dangerous areas to justify his inclusion. I wouldn’t be worried about playing McCarthy, he’s proved that he contributes energy whether attacking or defending.

I wonder if ‘upside down heid’ will look to continue his altercation with Storey, hope so as he might lose focus. Funny if Storey clattered him in the first couple of minutes.

It’s the biggest cliché in football but it’s one game at a time for me. Not much point thinking of the run in if we lose the next two. Hamilton bring very little to the league lets help them out of it.

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22 hours ago, CotterJag said:

I just don't see any teams in the league I think we should be beating and think any disadvantage, no matter how slight, is damaging to us.

I'm genuinely still happy at the end of the season if we avoid relegation by any means and think we're still building the foundations of a better Thistle.

This season has been difficult with lots of injuries, some poor performances and players that have yet to and may never recover from lengthy spells of rehabilitation.

I'm old enough to have seen worse times than this, as many of you are and am more than a bit proud to be as good as teams like Motherwell, St. Johnstone, Dundee and to be bitterly disappointed not to beat The Rangers, Hibs, Hearts and even Celtic a wee bit.

Despite the heartache of last minute defeats, this is a great time to be a Jag but then again, I guess it always has been and always will be:fan:

Now I've started a new job, I'll definitely be up for a game after the split.

I'm normally good for at least a draw, so we better hang on in there til then.

I agree with most  of the things you say CJ.I said at the beginning of the season as long as we finished no lower than 10th it would be success.I also am old enough to realise we are going through better times for us,although it doesn't feel like that at times coming away from Firhill after games like Saturday's.I do though think we should expect to get the best of Hamilton and be able to do as good as the other teams of the bottom 6,as this is what has kept us in the league so far.Of course I agree with you,it has always been and always be great to be a Jag:fan:

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5 hours ago, Paulo said:

Christie will be playing for the dev team on Friday.  

He might well be. He certainly won't be starting at NDP ahead of McGinn and Muzzy.  Even if those two weren't available I can't imagine many managers risking him at this stage of his recovery on that surface.

Btw Elliott looked pretty good the other night, putting in a decent hour, also on an artificial surface. He was clearly playing to instruction but showed a wee bit  turn of pace and aggression when called on. Wouldn't imagine he's too far away from making a return to the first team squad. 

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