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javeajag
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5 hours ago, joekea said:

Can't wait to see Archie standing near the dug-out on Saturday - arms folded - quick look at the watch - arms folded - quick look at the watch - arms folded -quick look at the watch etc., etc.,

Despite what people may think of his management credentials, Archie has always been a class act with regard to his behaviour.

The fact that the worst anyone can say about him is that he folds his arms and looks at his watch, says it all. 

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8 hours ago, sandy said:

Honestly javeajag, you are are one-man bandwagon with a wheel loose.

You start a thread, expect the club to act, get all annoyed when they don’t. Were you waiting by your gold-plated phone all day? Who actually are you to expect them to treat you with some kind of reverence?

Are you ok ?

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On 04/04/2018 at 8:16 AM, javeajag said:

The only variable we cam change at this point in the season is the manager and he shows no sign of turning things round .....in fact they are getting worse 

We've changed managers 24 times now and the result is always the same (back to Einstein's description of insanity).

The Jags place in Scottish football is mid table mediocrity at best with a regular flirt with relegation and promotion to ease the tedium.  Why would we expect to be any different to Dundee United, Hearts or Hibs?

We have a stable club that isn't on the brink of oblivion anymore with a long serving Firhill legends managing the team in an extremely professional manner.  They are never an embarrassment in the media and handle themselves with dignity and a manner befitting an official of Partick Thistle Football club.

We should try to conduct ourselves with the same level of professionalism and dignity that we expect of them and give them the respect that they deserve.  

I'm not saying that the managers job is a job for life and I understand the world of 'results driven businesses' but I don't believe that baying for the blood of one of our own will change our league position overnight or our place in Scottish football for that matter. 

It seems that one thing that do learn from history is that we don't learn from history.

 

(Archie, get yer shit together man and give the team a rocket up the arse for Saturday -please!)

 

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16 hours ago, 1 John Lambie said:

Despite the fans being the single biggest shareholder in the club..?

They were, but they are now only "one of the largest single shareholders", i.e. not the largest. <https://www.uk.coop/directory/location/partick-thistle-supporters-association-limited-r002944> After share issues, the Jags Trust shareholding of 12.5% is exceeded by that of the (board-controlled) PTFC Trust's holding of 19.28%.

The only independent fans' representation on the board was denied (certainly in breach of a board promise - but what supporters' group is going to tear apart a football club board on a point of principle?), further share issues have diluted their holding (see above for an example), the promise of share issues agreed as part of the Centenary Fund has never been fulfilled and propco is a secondary board line of defence to ensure compliance should others want to challenge it. As I said, sleazy goings-on. If you're feeling particularly suspicious, you might even care to interpret the PTFC Trust as a further attempt to obscure the way in which the fans' stake has been sliced and diced while giving the appearance of fan involvement.

At any rate, there is no independent fans' voice on the board, and that seems very unhealthy to me. It's entirely in keeping with the UK's industrial policies, which favour riparian ownership over giving stakeholders a say. The relative productivity of the German and UK economies seems to reflect that.

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3 hours ago, AlgarveJag said:

We've changed managers 24 times now and the result is always the same (back to Einstein's description of insanity).

The Jags place in Scottish football is mid table mediocrity at best with a regular flirt with relegation and promotion to ease the tedium.  Why would we expect to be any different to Dundee United, Hearts or Hibs?

We have a stable club that isn't on the brink of oblivion anymore with a long serving Firhill legends managing the team in an extremely professional manner.  They are never an embarrassment in the media and handle themselves with dignity and a manner befitting an official of Partick Thistle Football club.

We should try to conduct ourselves with the same level of professionalism and dignity that we expect of them and give them the respect that they deserve.  

I'm not saying that the managers job is a job for life and I understand the world of 'results driven businesses' but I don't believe that baying for the blood of one of our own will change our league position overnight or our place in Scottish football for that matter. 

It seems that one thing that do learn from history is that we don't learn from history.

 

(Archie, get yer shit together man and give the team a rocket up the arse for Saturday -please!)

 

Any other manager just about anywhere would be long gone after taking 26 points from 111 since the top six split last year ... there is nothing g to suggest this will get anything but worse do you either slept walk into relegation or try and go something

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42 minutes ago, javeajag said:

Any other manager just about anywhere would be long gone after taking 26 points from 111 since the top six split last year ... there is nothing g to suggest this will get anything but worse do you either slept walk into relegation or try and go something

I'd like to do something but shooting ourselves in the foot to keep us awake wouldn't be my first option.

I'm inclined to agree with other posters on here that see solutions lie within the team, not outside it.

McCarthy is a great example, while Osman continues to be an enigma.  The problem is Archie is damned either way.  If he doesn't get the response from the youngster we'll be on his back saying he shouldn't be throwing youth in where experience and a steady nerve are more important to carve out a result.

Hibs took advantage of all the heads going down, at our goal being ruled offside, to take the ball up the other and catch us napping in a 30 second grab and run.  How many times does Archie have tell these guys that they all need to stay switched and focused - The players have to take responsibility.  Similar issue at Parkhead where the game was lost through lack of awareness and concentration in the first 15 minutes.  The best manager in the world can't legislate for that (if your looking sleepwalkers, just re-run the tape).

Explain, Adam Barton to me?  PoTY one year chamber potty the next.  Archie rested him, coached him (presumably), explained what was required of him and he's back a very much improved player and more like the real deal. 

Archie won't be with us forever, that's football but he's a respected and connected individual in Scottish football and he's hurting as much as we are, I'm sure (probably even more).

 

   

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Sensible comnents algarve jag....but I think the fans can see that our form has been extremely poor for 12 long months. Why should we accept and expect relegation. Why cant me replicate st johnstone, motherwell for example? Even hamilton. Look at the money they have made through their youth policy. Id actually accept relegation from time to time IF we won a cup or even got to a final. History doesnt have to be mandatory...

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1 hour ago, AlgarveJag said:

I'd like to do something but shooting ourselves in the foot to keep us awake wouldn't be my first option.

I'm inclined to agree with other posters on here that see solutions lie within the team, not outside it.

McCarthy is a great example, while Osman continues to be an enigma.  The problem is Archie is damned either way.  If he doesn't get the response from the youngster we'll be on his back saying he shouldn't be throwing youth in where experience and a steady nerve are more important to carve out a result.

Hibs took advantage of all the heads going down, at our goal being ruled offside, to take the ball up the other and catch us napping in a 30 second grab and run.  How many times does Archie have tell these guys that they all need to stay switched and focused - The players have to take responsibility.  Similar issue at Parkhead where the game was lost through lack of awareness and concentration in the first 15 minutes.  The best manager in the world can't legislate for that (if your looking sleepwalkers, just re-run the tape).

Explain, Adam Barton to me?  PoTY one year chamber potty the next.  Archie rested him, coached him (presumably), explained what was required of him and he's back a very much improved player and more like the real deal. 

Archie won't be with us forever, that's football but he's a respected and connected individual in Scottish football and he's hurting as much as we are, I'm sure (probably even more).

 

   

I think you have described the mangers job 

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1 hour ago, AlgarveJag said:

I'd like to do something but shooting ourselves in the foot to keep us awake wouldn't be my first option.

I'm inclined to agree with other posters on here that see solutions lie within the team, not outside it.

McCarthy is a great example, while Osman continues to be an enigma.  The problem is Archie is damned either way.  If he doesn't get the response from the youngster we'll be on his back saying he shouldn't be throwing youth in where experience and a steady nerve are more important to carve out a result.

Hibs took advantage of all the heads going down, at our goal being ruled offside, to take the ball up the other and catch us napping in a 30 second grab and run.  How many times does Archie have tell these guys that they all need to stay switched and focused - The players have to take responsibility.  Similar issue at Parkhead where the game was lost through lack of awareness and concentration in the first 15 minutes.  The best manager in the world can't legislate for that (if your looking sleepwalkers, just re-run the tape).

Explain, Adam Barton to me?  PoTY one year chamber potty the next.  Archie rested him, coached him (presumably), explained what was required of him and he's back a very much improved player and more like the real deal. 

Archie won't be with us forever, that's football but he's a respected and connected individual in Scottish football and he's hurting as much as we are, I'm sure (probably even more).

 

   

Barton’s back like the real deal? Have you seen the footage of Tuesday night the guy completely gives up, can’t be bothered putting in a tackle for the goals- absolutely shocking performance and he has done that several times this season (not the only one of course) but he quite frankly is showing no interest in playing for our beloved club

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1 hour ago, AlgarveJag said:

I'd like to do something but shooting ourselves in the foot to keep us awake wouldn't be my first option.

I'm inclined to agree with other posters on here that see solutions lie within the team, not outside it.

McCarthy is a great example, while Osman continues to be an enigma.  The problem is Archie is damned either way.  If he doesn't get the response from the youngster we'll be on his back saying he shouldn't be throwing youth in where experience and a steady nerve are more important to carve out a result.

Hibs took advantage of all the heads going down, at our goal being ruled offside, to take the ball up the other and catch us napping in a 30 second grab and run.  How many times does Archie have tell these guys that they all need to stay switched and focused - The players have to take responsibility.  Similar issue at Parkhead where the game was lost through lack of awareness and concentration in the first 15 minutes.  The best manager in the world can't legislate for that (if your looking sleepwalkers, just re-run the tape).

Explain, Adam Barton to me?  PoTY one year chamber potty the next.  Archie rested him, coached him (presumably), explained what was required of him and he's back a very much improved player and more like the real deal. 

Archie won't be with us forever, that's football but he's a respected and connected individual in Scottish football and he's hurting as much as we are, I'm sure (probably even more).

 

   

Bottom line the players we’ve got just now aren’t good enough , the coaching within the team isnt good enough in terms of improving players and bringing young players through, absolutely no point in having an academy otherwise .

Apart from fleeting appearances from Penrice and McCarthy there has been nothing this season .We’ve now got an ageing team who haven’t got the legs anymore, probably proven by the amount of goals we’ve conceded in the last 10 mins of games . Even if we survive relegation this season, it’s surely time for a rethink , I can’t think of any other manager who has survived with Archies record since the split last year. What gives you the confidence that Archie can turn this around ?

Edited by jlsarmy
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"The Jags place in Scottish football is mid table mediocrity at best "  What a deplorable attitude Algarve Jag.

Just the sort of mindset managers need when trying to attract youngsters to the Club - sign here please for a mediocre career at a mediocre club with no ambition, with an acceptance by management, directors and fans that we will never really seriously challenge the big clubs no matter how hard you train and develop your skills.

Take a medium term approach - build the training ground, develop our scouting network, nurture the Academy and its youngsters, and have a management that makes the best use of them.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Fearchar said:

They were, but they are now only "one of the largest single shareholders", i.e. not the largest. <https://www.uk.coop/directory/location/partick-thistle-supporters-association-limited-r002944> After share issues, the Jags Trust shareholding of 12.5% is exceeded by that of the (board-controlled) PTFC Trust's holding of 19.28%.

The only independent fans' representation on the board was denied (certainly in breach of a board promise - but what supporters' group is going to tear apart a football club board on a point of principle?), further share issues have diluted their holding (see above for an example), the promise of share issues agreed as part of the Centenary Fund has never been fulfilled and propco is a secondary board line of defence to ensure compliance should others want to challenge it. As I said, sleazy goings-on. If you're feeling particularly suspicious, you might even care to interpret the PTFC Trust as a further attempt to obscure the way in which the fans' stake has been sliced and diced while giving the appearance of fan involvement.

At any rate, there is no independent fans' voice on the board, and that seems very unhealthy to me. It's entirely in keeping with the UK's industrial policies, which favour riparian ownership over giving stakeholders a say. The relative productivity of the German and UK economies seems to reflect that.

We had a Fan Rep and a Former Fan Rep as Vice Chair during the Dick Campbell Era - for those of you not around these were the days despite having two "fan reps" on the Board the old dot net Forum was threatened with legal action for a post that was visible for all of 20 mins - so Fans Reps on the Board don't necessarily make for better management - as for Germany most Economic analysis gives far more credence to Germanys successful Mittel ( SME ) Powerhouse and pretty much says that workers reps make minimal difference                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 - Shareholding -ref the promises for the CF are 100% accurate the old JT were promised shares and the agreement wasn't honoured  - as for the New Trust - its still 20% of shares for Fan Ownership - things change -between the old JT - the new Trust and small shareholders -thats a fair chunk of shares owned by the Fans - Constitutions can be changed - ownership is a lot harder to change - Propco is a separate Ltd Company and for the record the old JT with the exception of possibly two Commiittee Members did not oppose  it - Im not against Fan Ownership - nor against the JT - but it would need to be a different model from Trusts running a Club -as frankly it doesn't work 

The JT lost there Rep Position on the Board as no one put themselves forward for the position in the JT Elections - the JT then proposed a "nominated" Fans Rep from the JT Committee - if No one can be bothered to even put there name on the ballot paper -what does it say about there commitment to the role - so lets not rewrite History  

 

 

Edited by Jordanhill Jag
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20 hours ago, Rid Skwerr said:

Couldn't agree more with everything you've said above.    (out of "likes" for today).

Particularly the bit about the rocket......

“There wasn’t much said [after the County game] - the gaffer said what he had to, he wasn’t happy. The players were a bit down - we’re grown men, we know we didn’t perform. So, he didn’t have to shout at us.

Some rocket!!

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17 hours ago, eljaggo said:

"The Jags place in Scottish football is mid table mediocrity at best "  What a deplorable attitude Algarve Jag.

Just the sort of mindset managers need when trying to attract youngsters to the Club - sign here please for a mediocre career at a mediocre club with no ambition, with an acceptance by management, directors and fans that we will never really seriously challenge the big clubs no matter how hard you train and develop your skills.

Take a medium term approach - build the training ground, develop our scouting network, nurture the Academy and its youngsters, and have a management that makes the best use of them.

 

 

Where do you expect Thistle to be in Scottish football. In reality the top 2 are pretty much always going to be Rangers and Celtic. Apart from the odd lapse Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs will usually be the next 3. So that’s us already mid table at best in a league of 12.

Folk have mentioned Motherwell, St J and Kilmarnock as clubs to try exemplify ? but they all go through bad periods.

Not only that, but all managers have bad periods as well - even the very best. (Ferguson was 1 game from the sack at Man U)

I don’t think any Thistle fan is happy with our current predicament, but there is no point in vilifying the manager or players. 

Lets just get to Firhill tomorrow to SUPPORT the team and hopefully get a good result

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I have not "vilified" the manager or players, but effectively saying everything is hunky dory on a fans' website and "just get to Firhill"  is not really a very good response to our predicament.  What would you do Lenziejag to turn things round?

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18 hours ago, eljaggo said:

"The Jags place in Scottish football is mid table mediocrity at best "  What a deplorable attitude Algarve Jag.

Just the sort of mindset managers need when trying to attract youngsters to the Club - sign here please for a mediocre career at a mediocre club with no ambition, with an acceptance by management, directors and fans that we will never really seriously challenge the big clubs no matter how hard you train and develop your skills.

Take a medium term approach - build the training ground, develop our scouting network, nurture the Academy and its youngsters, and have a management that makes the best use of them.

 

 

This might be one of my favorite posts on here, and exemplifies my thoughts exactly over the past few years. 

There are a few on this forum who would see us back in the Championship simply because of this "small-team mentality" that seems to permeate through our entire club. "We have spent 5 years in the Premiership, we have had a good run." "It has to come to an end at some point." "Archie has done well, so I would like to see him manager even if we get relegated." It is everything that is wrong with the culture of the club. We seem to believe that we are over-achieving somehow, and the second tier is our natural habitat. Probably one of the reasons that are record in cup competitions, and our record against the Old Firm is one of, if not the most pathetic of any professional club in the country. 

We are a club with no ambition. After we achieved the Top-6 last year, we should have really pressed on. Our departing players should have been replaced with others of comparable ability, and not journeymen like Woods or McGinn. God knows there was funds available, but they were spent by the manager on utter dross. 

Until this club starts to be ruthless, and expects more of the manager and of the players, we will not improve. 

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42 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

I have not "vilified" the manager or players, but effectively saying everything is hunky dory on a fans' website and "just get to Firhill"  is not really a very good response to our predicament.  What would you do Lenziejag to turn things round?

Right now ? Nothing. There are only 6 games left. The chances are a new manager isn’t going to be able to make a difference. 

You may not have vilified the manager or players, but others have.

And isn’t now the time the team need our support most ? I think we were in a similar position our 1st season up. 1st game of the split we went to Rugby Park. Took a large crowd down, gave the team our full backing and came away with a win.

But, I was responding to your assertion that we should be challenging for the top positions in Scotland. Unfortunately, history and  finances disagree.

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I am not suggesting for  moment that fans boycott the remaining gaames.  What has history got to do with challenging or not challenging for a high league finish? My assertion was/is that many posters on here are content with mediocrity, and for whom relegation will bring a shrug of the shoulders since our history shows that to have been pre-destined  That is an absurd ambition for any sporting club that competes minute by minute, game by game. 

 

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