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javeajag
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I see Archie on stv saying this seasons been a learning curve - not sure what the previous years were or what he’s learned - and he will take that into next season.....

so it’s perfectly possible he will be here next season esp if we stay up 

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20 hours ago, kevin energy said:

Well its about opinions

You're perfectly correct. The problem is always going to be if we had to appoint a new manager and go for experience to boot, the one chosen will virtually certainly have a blemished record. So regardless of who's chosen it'll split the punters on here.  If things turn bad the naysayers will be out in force gaining some solace from told you so-ing. 

Btw I really did think you were joking when you mentioned John Hughes :)

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When I came out of Firhill last October after watching us being outplayed, outfought and beaten by a Kilmarnock side who had sacked their manager and had the development team coach in charge I thought that Archibald would have been sacked,he wasn't.After the Kilmarnock game up to the winter break we played 13 games and picked up 17 points,if we would have kept that sort of points average going until the end of the season we would be safe by now.After the winter break despite the long awaited return of injured players our form plummeted again and we now need to win at Dundee to get into the play off.Imo if we were going to sack the manager it should have been after the Kilmarnock game but the run we went on after that it  is no surprise he wasn't.We as fans don't know who would apply for the job if we sacked Archibald but I would not like to see the likes of Duffy,Lennon or Hughes in charge.I now feel that no matter what happens this season that Archibald should still be in charge of Thistle next season but if we get relegated and we are not challenging for the league that should be the end of the road for him.He has said that this season he has learned a lot,so lets hope he has and no matter what league we are in Thistle get the benefit.Of course the board might feel different if we were to be relegated or Archibald himself might walk.

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16 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

When I came out of Firhill last October after watching us being outplayed, outfought and beaten by a Kilmarnock side who had sacked their manager and had the development team coach in charge I thought that Archibald would have been sacked,he wasn't.After the Kilmarnock game up to the winter break we played 13 games and picked up 17 points,if we would have kept that sort of points average going until the end of the season we would be safe by now.After the winter break despite the long awaited return of injured players our form plummeted again and we now need to win at Dundee to get into the play off.Imo if we were going to sack the manager it should have been after the Kilmarnock game but the run we went on after that it  is no surprise he wasn't.We as fans don't know who would apply for the job if we sacked Archibald but I would not like to see the likes of Duffy,Lennon or Hughes in charge.I now feel that no matter what happens this season that Archibald should still be in charge of Thistle next season but if we get relegated and we are not challenging for the league that should be the end of the road for him.He has said that this season he has learned a lot,so lets hope he has and no matter what league we are in Thistle get the benefit.Of course the board might feel different if we were to be relegated or Archibald himself might walk.

If we go down, Archie should be shown the door. He has shown this season with his tactics, his chopping and changing, his awful recruitment and his belief that the injured players coming back would sort things he is out of  his depth. And this nonsense that has been a learning curve beggars belief. How much of a learning curve does he need after almost 6 seasons in charge? Whatever league we are in the club needs a hange. Coaching staff and players alike.

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3 hours ago, Garscube Road End said:

If we go down, Archie should be shown the door. He has shown this season with his tactics, his chopping and changing, his awful recruitment and his belief that the injured players coming back would sort things he is out of  his depth. And this nonsense that has been a learning curve beggars belief. How much of a learning curve does he need after almost 6 seasons in charge? Whatever league we are in the club needs a hange. Coaching staff and players alike.

Nobody can deny this season has been terrible and Archibald has to take a good bit of  blame for that, but we have had 4 decent years in the Premier with him in charge and he got us promoted.1 Last chance.

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23 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

If we go down, Archie should be shown the door. He has shown this season with his tactics, his chopping and changing, his awful recruitment and his belief that the injured players coming back would sort things he is out of  his depth. And this nonsense that has been a learning curve beggars belief. How much of a learning curve does he need after almost 6 seasons in charge? Whatever league we are in the club needs a hange. Coaching staff and players alike.

I’m genuinely surprised that people don’t appreciate that something as difficult as football management may take longer than 5 years to learn. I certainly took longer than that to learn my profession, and I’m still on a learning curve.  Up till this season his management showed clear progress culminating in a very impressive top 6 finish (something some fans seem strangely keen to denigrate). For the first time he was faced with a superficially good squad and made the mistake in thinking it was good enough (as did many of us). I think he can learn from this and improve. 

Ultimately I still see it as 5 years of general year on year improvement followed by a poor season. In most other professions (including players), you’d tend to give the benefit of the doubt in such circumstances (at least in the short term). I don’t see why not here. In any case, if we do go for a change, I will expect a manager with at least as good a record- which, if we escape, is 1 promotion, 1 top 6 place, no relegations and 5 years top flight experience.

Edited by Duke Gekantawa
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43 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

Nobody can deny this season has been terrible and Archibald has to take a good bit of  blame for that, but we have had 4 decent years in the Premier with him in charge and he got us promoted.1 Last chance.

Decent as in we have been there? Agree. Decent as in quality of football? Definitely not. The quality of our football has declined season on season. And Archie's record in recruitment has steadily got worse.

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1 hour ago, Garscube Road End said:

If we go down, Archie should be shown the door. He has shown this season with his tactics, his chopping and changing, his awful recruitment and his belief that the injured players coming back would sort things he is out of  his depth. And this nonsense that has been a learning curve beggars belief. How much of a learning curve does he need after almost 6 seasons in charge? Whatever league we are in the club needs a hange. Coaching staff and players alike.

I think he said this season has been a learning curve. I take that to mean that he expected to be able to attract players earlier. They might also have thought that the returning players would have made a bigger difference. 

Not knowing what conversations went on at Firhill it is difficult to tell who led those decisions. 

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23 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

Decent as in we have been there? Agree. Decent as in quality of football? Definitely not. The quality of our football has declined season on season. And Archie's record in recruitment has steadily got worse.

I disagree with this- we were top 6 last season because the footballers we had last season, including many of the more recent recruits, and the quality of football we played was better than in the previous seasons.  This increased quality was reflected in an increased performance. It’s only this season that the quality has markedly declined.

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34 minutes ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

I disagree with this- we were top 6 last season because the footballers we had last season, including many of the more recent recruits, and the quality of football we played was better than in the previous seasons.  This increased quality was reflected in an increased performance. It’s only this season that the quality has markedly declined.

I've missed only a handful of matches over the last few seasons and I agree entirely with DG's comments.

In fairness tho' to GRE the average age of the team on the park has gone up season on season (TJR could no doubt confirm). That in practice hasn't manifested itself in a problem previously but I believe it's really biting us on the bum now. So while I agree it's only this season we've had a serious reversal of fortune the underlying problem of fielding an aging team has been gradual.  That's not especially a managerial fault, more a historical problem re club infrastructure. However it's getting close to the time when we should hope the Club's youth policy will kick in. Fine to sell on the likes of Jack Hendry and Liam Lindsay but much better to do so when we've youngsters ready to replace them. If not positionally at least in age.

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I would accept the ‘ learning curve ‘ argument if Archie or someone could evidence what exactly he has learned ....if that is absent he hasnt actually learned anything which based in this season us my fear

you can go through bad experiences and learn nothing 

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6 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

When I came out of Firhill last October after watching us being outplayed, outfought and beaten by a Kilmarnock side who had sacked their manager and had the development team coach in charge I thought that Archibald would have been sacked,he wasn't.After the Kilmarnock game up to the winter break we played 13 games and picked up 17 points,if we would have kept that sort of points average going until the end of the season we would be safe by now.After the winter break despite the long awaited return of injured players our form plummeted again and we now need to win at Dundee to get into the play off.Imo if we were going to sack the manager it should have been after the Kilmarnock game but the run we went on after that it  is no surprise he wasn't.We as fans don't know who would apply for the job if we sacked Archibald but I would not like to see the likes of Duffy,Lennon or Hughes in charge.I now feel that no matter what happens this season that Archibald should still be in charge of Thistle next season but if we get relegated and we are not challenging for the league that should be the end of the road for him.He has said that this season he has learned a lot,so lets hope he has and no matter what league we are in Thistle get the benefit.Of course the board might feel different if we were to be relegated or Archibald himself might walk.

A lot of sense in that.

Ayr stuck by IanMcCall after their relegation at the end of last season, and he's brought them back up at the first time of asking.

My own preference is for Archie to stay and improve, but if it doesn't work out, then McCall is on record about hoping to return to Thistle one day; he refers to the club as "magical." We could do a lot worse than bring him back.

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On 4/3/2018 at 8:48 PM, Fearchar said:

Unfortunately, the board schemed and plotted to remove the fans' stake, and now there are only the Weirs (or other sugar daddies) to run to. Fans don't have the same stake, and are in the city of Scottish football's big guns. The sleazy tactics have turned out to be a strategic error, unless the Weirs really are willing to pour money into the money pit of a football club, and so far they haven't shown any sign of being so foolish.

Hopefully the Weirs might offer a cash incentive to get us through these playoff games and remain in the top flight.

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42 minutes ago, Paolo said:

Hopefully the Weirs might offer a cash incentive to get us through these playoff games and remain in the top flight.

Puzzled! Incentive to whom? The players? That would seem to be rewarding the poor overall performances throughout the season that have brought us to the present position. Surely the players do not need or deserve incentives to give of their best in the 2 remaining play off games?

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On 11/05/2018 at 11:46 PM, javeajag said:

I would accept the ‘ learning curve ‘ argument if Archie or someone could evidence what exactly he has learned ....if that is absent he hasnt actually learned anything which based in this season us my fear

you can go through bad experiences and learn nothing 

I think the learning he showed was that in season 1 we tried to play the expansive game of the 1st Division and only just stayed up. In the following 3 seasons we established ourselves as a Premiership team, missing out on top 6 in season 3 by 1 goal and making it to the top 6 last season.

Probably, the lesson learned this season is that we didn’t improve our squad in line with other teams for whatever reason.

We won’t know until next season whether the lessons have been learned

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