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Why has it went so wrong?


Auld Jag
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11 hours ago, Winter of '63 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are all going to feel stupid when we finish the season with six successive victories

 

 

 

 

I for one would gladly take feeling stupid. It would be an incredible feat if we were able to score a goal in the remaining games never mind win them. 6 wins in 32 games then win 6 games in 4 weeks, maybe Archie really is a genius and has only been kidding on were shite till the split when all of a sudden we escape the two relegation places.

How Archie can be deemed a hero if he keeps us up is beyond me. Must be akin to the Stockholm syndrome that, months of mental abuse then when he finally makes us happy everything is OK??

Make no mistake, this has been a truly miserable season and for the sanity of our dwindling crowds he needs to go

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26 minutes ago, MonehJags said:

I for one would gladly take feeling stupid. It would be an incredible feat if we were able to score a goal in the remaining games never mind win them. 6 wins in 32 games then win 6 games in 4 weeks, maybe Archie really is a genius and has only been kidding on were shite till the split when all of a sudden we escape the two relegation places.

How Archie can be deemed a hero if he keeps us up is beyond me. Must be akin to the Stockholm syndrome that, months of mental abuse then when he finally makes us happy everything is OK??

Make no mistake, this has been a truly miserable season and for the sanity of our dwindling crowds he needs to go

In fairness you've wanted him sacked every season we've been up. 

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15 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

1- Our tactics are too well known, with no flexibility or adaptation 

2- Our fitness and stamina is atrocious 

3- Ditching  a player when he’s been a standout the match before

4- Consistently playing guys that aren’t performing/ interested

5- Benching Doolan

6- Bizarre substitutions 

7- No leader on the park

8- Lack of January transfer activity even just to freshen it up

9- Summer signings too late

10- Not knowing where to play summer signings 

11- Not being able to deal with a dead ball situation

12- Injuries 

13- Dressing room issues???

14- No fear to lose in the team, no one gets binned, released, slated, regardless of performance, fitness, injuries, social media tweets

15- Being too defensive when our defense is crap

16- The manager is completely out of ideas

 

These are all relevant, but the illuminating one to me is 3 - "Ditching a player when he's been a standout the match before." I know it refers to McCarthy, but, more importantly, this is the sign of a manager who is out of touch and will not succeed. If the board keeps backing him, relegation is a certainty.

On a related point, one of the matters any new manager worth his salt would attend to is fitness and the related medical record (point 2). It would be difficult to justify keeping support staff who have fared astonishingly poorly in dealing with so many different players and injuries - some of them even picked up after recuperation. (A new manager would presumably be hard-headed enough to judge by results.)

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2 hours ago, MonehJags said:

I for one would gladly take feeling stupid. It would be an incredible feat if we were able to score a goal in the remaining games never mind win them. 6 wins in 32 games then win 6 games in 4 weeks, maybe Archie really is a genius and has only been kidding on were shite till the split when all of a sudden we escape the two relegation places.

How Archie can be deemed a hero if he keeps us up is beyond me. Must be akin to the Stockholm syndrome that, months of mental abuse then when he finally makes us happy everything is OK??

Make no mistake, this has been a truly miserable season and for the sanity of our dwindling crowds he needs to go

I would imagine that if we beat Killie on Saturday and are anywhere close to staying in this league, then the crowds will be larger than recently for our remaining home games

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15 hours ago, Winter of '63 said:

 

They are all going to feel stupid when we finish the season with six successive victories

 

 

 

 

 In recent weeks I have been critical of Osman and Barton, but I can assure you that if we escape relegation and they have performed well I will seek them out to congratulate them

without feeling the least bit stupid.   Do not mistake criticism for disloyalty.

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18 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

1- Our tactics are too well known, with no flexibility or adaptation 

2- Our fitness and stamina is atrocious 

3- Ditching  a player when he’s been a standout the match before

4- Consistently playing guys that aren’t performing/ interested

5- Benching Doolan

6- Bizarre substitutions 

7- No leader on the park

8- Lack of January transfer activity even just to freshen it up

9- Summer signings too late

10- Not knowing where to play summer signings 

11- Not being able to deal with a dead ball situation

12- Injuries 

13- Dressing room issues???

14- No fear to lose in the team, no one gets binned, released, slated, regardless of performance, fitness, injuries, social media tweets

15- Being too defensive when our defense is crap

16- The manager is completely out of ideas

 

  .............. yeah, but apart from that what has Archie done wrong!  ;-)

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It started going wrong in the top six games after the split , we then recruited badly and have struggled to play well ..... every time we have a chance to do something g we can’t take it ..... the stats will tell you we concede more than anyone else and score fewer goals .... oh and it has nothing to do with the manager 

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We simply haven't been able to recover from a combination of a bad set of fixtures and an unprecedented level of injuries in the defence/defensive midfield at the beginning of the season.   Last season was good but we only won 10 games.  So far, this season we have won 6.  Margins are tight and the division, overall,  is much improved from last year.  You can blame Archie for the failure to recover after the winter break but there is really no way of knowing whether anyone else would have made a difference - and spouting cliches about "losing the dressing room" and suchlike does not make a convincing argument. For all we know, it was only having Archie at the helm that even kept us in touch up til now!

Furthermore, to suggest, as the OP does, that this is one of our worst ever seasons is going way too far. Even in the days of the old 1st Division, when we went 70 years without relegation,  we finished 11th or below regularly - 27 times out of 70, in fact. Whether you like it or not, this is historically our level and the current set up means we will get relegated every few years. It is OK to be ambitious for a better run at the top - we all are - but equally we shouldn't be throwing our toys out of the pram when we have been, over the last few years, at  or near the top end of our historical position in the game.

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I really don't understand the thinking in your post Dunfermline Jag.  Who cares if this season is the worst, second worst or whatever in our history. 

Why would a club simply accept relegation as being their fate every few years?  

What would you do at this stage of the season Dunfermline Jag to avoid relegation?

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5 hours ago, eljaggo said:

I really don't understand the thinking in your post Dunfermline Jag.  Who cares if this season is the worst, second worst or whatever in our history. 

Why would a club simply accept relegation as being their fate every few years?  

What would you do at this stage of the season Dunfermline Jag to avoid relegation?

Well you'll just need to accept it. It's reality. No team has a devine right to be outwith the relegation battle. 

But some have the infrastructure that it's not even an after thought. We are not one of them.

Some have the infrastructure to compete yearly for the final post split place. Motherwell, st Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Dundee. 

And some are aspiring to be in that group, but know that relegation is always a possibility. Ross County and Hamilton.

So where does that leave us. Realistically somewhere between the two groups. 

So we'd love to be one of five chasing 6th place, but such are the fine lines, relegation is always a possibility.

 

Now ambition is a great thing but reality puts a dampener on it. Because of that group of 4, St Johnstone and Dundee are in a relegation battle this season.

No one is exempt due to the league set up. A league of 12 with a split hampers any chance of a team like ours taking stock, stabilising and setting down roots in the top league. Like it or not. We will always be looking at the possibility of relegation.

Changing manager won't change that fact. It doesn't matter who manages Thistle, relegation will always be a possibility.

Just so it sinks in... A league of 12 with a split will never allow a team of our size to become an established top flight team. Get that aspiration out your heads folks. It can't happen.

 

Edited by potty trained
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7 hours ago, JAGSMAN1968 said:

ROFL:

Player of the Year 2018
Sunday 22nd April

Tickets on sale now for just £40

SECURE YOUR TICKET

Don’t you agree that it’s at times like these that our Club need the support even more than ever?

If fans choose to stay away, it simply creates more short-term damage.

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On 4/5/2018 at 6:12 PM, javeajag said:

...the stats will tell you we concede more than anyone else and score fewer goals .... oh and it has nothing to do with the manager 

He was hired and is paid to take responsibility for results. Short of an accident like the Basin collapsing on to Firhill, it has everything to do with him.

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On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 8:46 AM, Dunfermline Jag said:

We simply haven't been able to recover from a combination of a bad set of fixtures and an unprecedented level of injuries in the defence/defensive midfield at the beginning of the season.   Last season was good but we only won 10 games.  So far, this season we have won 6.  Margins are tight and the division, overall,  is much improved from last year.  You can blame Archie for the failure to recover after the winter break but there is really no way of knowing whether anyone else would have made a difference - and spouting cliches about "losing the dressing room" and suchlike does not make a convincing argument. For all we know, it was only having Archie at the helm that even kept us in touch up til now!

Furthermore, to suggest, as the OP does, that this is one of our worst ever seasons is going way too far. Even in the days of the old 1st Division, when we went 70 years without relegation,  we finished 11th or below regularly - 27 times out of 70, in fact. Whether you like it or not, this is historically our level and the current set up means we will get relegated every few years. It is OK to be ambitious for a better run at the top - we all are - but equally we shouldn't be throwing our toys out of the pram when we have been, over the last few years, at  or near the top end of our historical position in the game.

After our first 9 fixtures we only had 3points.The next 13 fixtures that took us up to the winter break we got 17 points, by far our best run of the season,I would suggest that showed we had recovered from a hard run of fixtures from the start.So much so it had some posters telling the 'knicker wetters' we would soon be moving up the league. Since the winter break and also the return of the majority of our injured players we have played 11 games and only picked up 5 points.

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On 4/6/2018 at 5:26 PM, potty trained said:

 

Just so it sinks in... A league of 12 with a split will never allow a team of our size to become an established top flight team. Get that aspiration out your heads folks. It can't happen.

 

A team our size,  the same size or bigger than County, St Johnston, Accies or not far off Motherwell

Accies been in top fight for 4 years  

County for 6 years

St Johnston for 9 years, but have spent longer in top flight in last 30 years than out it

Motherwell for decades

Caley we’re in top flight for 12 out last 14 seasons

 

4 of those teams have also made cup finals & wins and played in Europe in recent times, and not one of them is a bigger club, 2 are more established in top flight but no way a bigger club

 

This too wee, too cuddly, defeatist attitude is what holds the club back.

 

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2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

A team our size,  the same size or bigger than County, St Johnston, Accies or not far off Motherwell

Accies been in top fight for 4 years  

County for 6 years

St Johnston for 9 years, but have spent longer in top flight in last 30 years than out it

Motherwell for decades

Caley we’re in top flight for 12 out last 14 seasons

 

4 of those teams have also made cup finals & wins and played in Europe in recent times, and not one of them is a bigger club, 2 are more established in top flight but no way a bigger club

 

This too wee, too cuddly, defeatist attitude is what holds the club back.

 

Whilst I appreciate you quoting my post, selectively quoting it and deleting the bits where I say we are similar to County and accies, and striving to be a motherwell/st johnstone/Dundee etc, doesn't help. 

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3 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Motherwell for decades

Forgetting of course they finished bottom of the league and previously had gone into administration due to unsustainable spending to keep themselves in the league.

btw... also don't think Roy McGregor FC a fair yardstick for comparison purposes but that's perhaps another matter 

 

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3 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

A team our size,  the same size or bigger than County, St Johnston, Accies or not far off Motherwell

Accies been in top fight for 4 years  

County for 6 years

St Johnston for 9 years, but have spent longer in top flight in last 30 years than out it

Motherwell for decades

Caley we’re in top flight for 12 out last 14 seasons

 

4 of those teams have also made cup finals & wins and played in Europe in recent times, and not one of them is a bigger club, 2 are more established in top flight but no way a bigger club

 

This too wee, too cuddly, defeatist attitude is what holds the club back.

 

There are a number of posters on here at the start of the season predicted we would be again challenging for top 6 and going far in one of the cup competitions.Some of the same posters are now saying what does a club like ours expect and we should just be thankful we have been in the top league for 5 years.Of course these posters are in the Archie can do no wrong camp.

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6 hours ago, potty trained said:

Whilst I appreciate you quoting my post, selectively quoting it and deleting the bits where I say we are similar to County and accies, and striving to be a motherwell/st johnstone/Dundee etc, doesn't help. 

Dundee always have been a bigger club, there fan base and history shows that,  the others aren’t.

Whilst I don’t expect us to be beating all these clubs or to be top 6, I do (and so should our fan base) expect our aspirations to be aiming for top 6,  competing with all these clubs. 

Last 4 seasons on our game (and with some luck) we looked capable of beating any team in this league on a day, consistency and depth of pool would never allow for it to be week in week out,  but this season after the Rangers cup game we don’t look capable of beating anyone.

 

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34 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Dundee always have been a bigger club, there fan base and history shows that,  the others aren’t.

Whilst I don’t expect us to be beating all these clubs or to be top 6, I do (and so should our fan base) expect our aspirations to be aiming for top 6,  competing with all these clubs. 

Last 4 seasons on our game (and with some luck) we looked capable of beating any team in this league on a day, consistency and depth of pool would never allow for it to be week in week out,  but this season after the Rangers cup game we don’t look capable of beating anyone.

 

And again, very similar to the stuff I said in the posted you selectively quoted.

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10 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

A team our size,  the same size or bigger than County, St Johnston, Accies or not far off Motherwell

Accies been in top fight for 4 years  

County for 6 years

St Johnston for 9 years, but have spent longer in top flight in last 30 years than out it

Motherwell for decades

Caley we’re in top flight for 12 out last 14 seasons

 

4 of those teams have also made cup finals & wins and played in Europe in recent times, and not one of them is a bigger club, 2 are more established in top flight but no way a bigger club

 

This too wee, too cuddly, defeatist attitude is what holds the club back.

 

You realise that all the clubs you have quoted are in the bottom 6 or below ? and most flirt with relegation regularly ?

Accies and Ross County aren’t out of the relegation/play off fight just yet.

I don’t understand why you quote Hamilton being in the league 4 years when we have been in 5

Motherwell went from being 2nd one season to the playoffs the next.

Killie, also have been in the playoffs and been in a last game shootout with Hibs in the 5 seasons we have been in the league. Clubs “larger” than us have been or are in the 2nd tier since we came up, which just shows that we have no divine right to be in the league. Sure, we can aspire to challenge for 5th or 6th now and again, but to expect it every season is hiding your head in the sand stuff

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