Paulo Posted April 23, 2018 Report Share Posted April 23, 2018 Not positive, not negative, just observations: Kris Doolan never ceases to be amazing. This place is mental. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted April 23, 2018 Report Share Posted April 23, 2018 It would have been just our luck if at Edwards's goal the linesman had flagged Erskine offside. He did well to lift his legs out the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 23, 2018 Report Share Posted April 23, 2018 John Beaton is a remarkable referee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Spot on sabbath. I though in the first half the ref let the game flow and was pleased he wasn't throwing yellow cards about, with such a pressure game that could have made for a messy outcome......then he showed yellow to, was it elliott?, for a first jaggy foul, then misses a stonewall penalty for them and downhill thereafter. That said, game won so who cares. Just wanted to highlight how poor refs are in this country. I am told (& cant prove it) that refs in other euro countries and who are full time, reffing is their only job. So when we see euro games they all look fit and keep up with play. In scotland we pay these feckers a huge full time wage. Most are on a bigger wage than most players. Over a grand a game and some do more than one game a week at times. Note this is pay per game and not per week or month!!!! But MOST, have another full time job/wage ffs Anyways, drifting onto another subject, sowee. Great result, getintaethemjags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Their penalty claim was no more a stonewaller than ours at NDP (when Imrie showed just how versatile a player he is with an impromptu appearance as a goalie). btw Wondering what Mr Beaton's full time job is. Fitness instructor? Lion Tamer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Dastardly Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Providing they are consistently bad for both teams, then over the season, it should all balance out. I can't think of ever hearing any supporter for any club saying after the game "The referee did well today" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Refereeing decisions, and sometimes mistakes, are all part of the game. They allow debate and controversy, and I'm dead against VAR; we should accept that sometimes mistakes are made. I'm also against constant over-the-top criticism and abuse, in what is a really tough job. However, a good standard of refereeing is important. I think questions around professionalism in this country are very fair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Agreed. The point i'm making is that if they treated reffing as a full time job and was the sole focus then they would surely be better. I don't criticise the refs, as fans we discuss and possibly moan and judge. I'd never suggest our refs are corrupt or intentionally get decisions wrong, simply making the point they could and should be better, given their full time status. As a football fan the standard at times is poor compared to other league. That said the standard is way better then some other leagues too. As you point out allyo, they form part of the big footy debate and are an easy target. I'd certainly never ever want to be one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 I think we should remember though that for us supporters it is a game - for everyone else it is a livelihood and a wrong decision could be the difference between someone having a job and not. I think referees and football authorities have an obligation to ensure that the correct decisions are taken. Any incident that leads to a goal, penalty, sending off or suspension should be reviewed using all available technology. Take that incident on Saturday at the end of the game. Imagine he scores a goal that beats Ross County and puts Hamilton 5 points ahead of us again. That one wrong decision could be putting in jeopardy the jobs of people who work at 2 clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Take your point Lenziejag, but the fact remains that it is a game. These people's livelihoods are structured around a game, which has all the necessary unpredictability and inconsistency that is football. Where one person loses from a decision (right or wrong) another person benefits. Harsh maybe, but true (and probably also more applicable to real life than we'd like to admit). If you kill the game, you kill all their livelihoods. I think the good of the sport has to be to the forefront, and arguments around business and economics have to follow behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: ... btw Wondering what Mr Beaton's full time job is. ... Perhaps similar to Johnnie Cradock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 23 minutes ago, allyo said: Take your point Lenziejag, but the fact remains that it is a game. These people's livelihoods are structured around a game, which has all the necessary unpredictability and inconsistency that is football. Where one person loses from a decision (right or wrong) another person benefits. Harsh maybe, but true (and probably also more applicable to real life than we'd like to admit). If you kill the game, you kill all their livelihoods. I think the good of the sport has to be to the forefront, and arguments around business and economics have to follow behind. I don’t think reviewing incidents would kill the game. However, at the moment there is no accountability for wrong decisions. Referees don’t have to explain controversial decisions. The authorities rarely criticise them. Managers get fined for their criticism. Shoulders are shrugged and people say that’s football. It shouldn’t be that way in this day and age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 I think VAR trials have shown examples of reviews killing the game. It's a balance obviously. I think we have to aspire to high refereeing standards, Give them the obvious abuse when decisions go against our team (that's just part of the fun), and obviously discuss decisions afterwards. But we should also accept that some mistakes are inevitable as a part of football. I think media focus on decisions is currently excessive, with MOTD in particular seeming to make it the key talking point in every single game. There should be accountability and there is. My (limited) understanding is that referees are scored and awarded on basis of performance (much the same way as players and managers, who are also human). But I don't think they should be dragged out in front of the media to explain every controversial decision. And I don't think the authorities (their employers) should be expected to criticise them in public. That's just going to put people off doing the job. The level of accountability is debatable; and it's not particularly transparent. On this I'd accept there are arguments both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags on tour Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, BowenBoys said: Perhaps similar to Johnnie Cradock. judging by the size of him it’s more like Fannie Craddock! Edited April 24, 2018 by jags on tour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Lenziejag said: I don’t think reviewing incidents would kill the game. However, at the moment there is no accountability for wrong decisions. Referees don’t have to explain controversial decisions. The authorities rarely criticise them. Managers get fined for their criticism. Shoulders are shrugged and people say that’s football. It shouldn’t be that way in this day and age Perhaps maxi will address this, then again perhaps not. Great point on refs not explaining after the game. They can behind closed doors to managers but not the paying public Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 As a big step towards improving refereeing decisions, assistant referees need to take on more responsibility. Compared to their rugby counterparts, they shirk bringing offences to the attention of the referee, and don't act nearly enough as a second and third pair of eyes. If they did take more resonsibility, referees would consult them much more and the game would be better for it. I can't decide whether VARs are good or bad, (use available technology v. life's imperfect) but don't believe that the delays they cause should be a factor in the decision to use them - cricket review delays are actually enjoyed by spectators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, eljaggo said: As a big step towards improving refereeing decisions, assistant referees need to take on more responsibility. Compared to their rugby counterparts, they shirk bringing offences to the attention of the referee, and don't act nearly enough as a second and third pair of eyes. If they did take more resonsibility, referees would consult them much more and the game would be better for it. I can't decide whether VARs are good or bad, (use available technology v. life's imperfect) but don't believe that the delays they cause should be a factor in the decision to use them - cricket review delays are actually enjoyed by spectators. I wonder whether it is the assistant ref not taking responsibility or the ref telling them beforehand to wait until he asks them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Good point lenziejag, and the best point is that we don't know. We are never told. It's like........i dunno......mother russia / stazi/ masons. We are watching from the outside which makes us, or me, can't speak for all, think what are they trying to hide. What are they afraid of. No one wants to belittle them or ridicule them, it would be good if they just opened up to discussion, about decisions policy etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 24 minutes ago, Lenziejag said: I wonder whether it is the assistant ref not taking responsibility or the ref telling them beforehand to wait until he asks them. The problem with the latter, of course, is that if the ref doesn't see anything, he won't ask. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 I don't know what instructions referees/asst. refs are given or what is agreed between them (which may vary by referee). But surely three sets of eyes are better than one and referees should be big enough to accept advice, and asst. refs be given every encouragement to offer it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, jags on tour said: judging by the size of him it’s more like Fannie Craddock! Think Fannie Craddock. Think doughnuts. Think Bill Tennant. Edited April 24, 2018 by eljaggo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Lenziejag said: I wonder whether it is the assistant ref not taking responsibility or the ref telling them beforehand to wait until he asks them. I remember hearing an anecdote from an ex-referee. His first game in the top league, running the line. 10 mins in he spots a foul and flags for the ref's attention. The ref blows and approaches him, says "I'm over here so the fans and players think I'm consulting you, but I'm really here to tell you that if you raise the flag again for anything but offside or a throw, I'll stick it up your (somewhere?). This is my show". Now, that's an anecdote, might not be totally true for all I know. I'm sure there are no egos like that in the refereeing game these days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 Guys the refereeing team is miked up these days so they are constantly talking, unlike in the past when the linesman had to flag to get the refs attention. What is wrong though that they won’t make a decision until they are in agreement so you see the linesman wait until the ref has awarded the throw before they will put their flag up which just makes them look stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 No Scottish or English referees at this years world cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joefraser Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 5 hours ago, Paulo said: I remember hearing an anecdote from an ex-referee. His first game in the top league, running the line. 10 mins in he spots a foul and flags for the ref's attention. The ref blows and approaches him, says "I'm over here so the fans and players think I'm consulting you, but I'm really here to tell you that if you raise the flag again for anything but offside or a throw, I'll stick it up your (somewhere?). This is my show". Now, that's an anecdote, might not be totally true for all I know. I'm sure there are no egos like that in the refereeing game these days. In the EPL a few years ago they went pro and it hasn't really helped the standard too much, you still don't get decisions against the " big " clubs. Last week v utd we had two stonewall penalties turned down while the score was 0-1 , so it could have made a difference. Home to Spurs 83rd min 1-2 down and we equalise,,, but no chalked off for a "push" that the Spurs defender didn't even appeal for ( and you know what defenders are like when a goal goes in,,, appeal for anything) we go on to lose 1-4 and look like we have been well beaten when, in fact, it was a decent game til we chased and commited too many forward in the last mins. Anyway to get to the above post, at the same time as the refs went pro they started to train some to just run the line, they would still ref at National league level, but in the top four divisions they would only run the line. One of these who went on to be a have a good career ( some European games and Internationals ) was our postman and he used to tell us anecdotes as well. Similar to the above was also told to him by a very famous ( at the time) EPL referee, but he even wanted them just to put the flag straight up for throw-ins until he had indicated which way, then they signalled the way he had pointed. I still see some linos doing the same thing now, so I often wonder if some refs still give the same instructions and it annoys me when pundits give the linos grief, when they may have been ordered not to bring anything to the attention of the ref. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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