Third Lanark Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 So that's a convicted criminal and tax fraudster officially joined rangers. Surprised the media have been so quiet on this criminal being linked to their club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Spoke to a Rangers a Supporting acquaintance of mine at uni. today(yes, some of them can read and write, apparently) and asked him what he thought about the whole situation and his reply just about floored me, "no we'll be alright, Rangers have plenty of money, all the hassles caused by deluded Celtic fans on Twitter", edited for publication of course. But, FFS if he's a typical example of a Rangers supporter's attitude, we'll frankly they deserve everything that happens to them! I take it your student acquaintance isn't studying economics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 I take it your student acquaintance isn't studying economics. Consider how good most economists (and guys in related professions, e.g. bankers) in working out what goes on in our economy he may very well be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 (edited) So that's a convicted criminal and tax fraudster officially joined rangers. Surprised the media have been so quiet on this criminal being linked to their club The "glib and shameless liar" (© SA tax case Judge) will also be being watched by SA tax people if large amounts of money seem to proceed from him to other businesses. Edited March 4, 2014 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 are they dead yet? tick tock, tick tock ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 So that's a convicted criminal and tax fraudster officially joined rangers. Surprised the media have been so quiet on this criminal being linked to their club Who's joined rangers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billko Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 So that's a convicted criminal and tax fraudster officially joined rangers. Surprised the media have been so quiet on this criminal being linked to their club This is an article from last year and Dave King has nothing to do with the current board. I'm suprised we are so far behind on here with the statements between King and the spivs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) I take it your student acquaintance isn't studying economics. I couldn't possibly say, but its not a million miles away from economics! However, it does show the existence of the mass delusion phenomana, which very many Rangers supporters seem to suffer from nowadays. The notion of supporting your team in extremis I can understand, but surely the Rangers support has essentially let the people running the club get away with murder for montjhs if not years and while it is laudable that they are finally waking up to reality as Bilko suggests, even then they've got to dress it up as pseudo-political The Union of Fans. Like many others, having very nearly gone down the same road in the past, I cannot for the life of me understand why so much faith, if that is not a dirty word in connection with our beloved Gers, seems to be being placed in a self-confessed fraudster not only by the Rangers support,, but by the laptop loyal as well. Que the stories about renewed Armageddpn etc., etc. Obviously, the SFA can do nothing at the minute and certainly make nu public comments, but surely they are noting the situation or it would be a complete abrogation of duty (again!), if they'are not in a position to investigate the goings on at Castle Greyskull. Perhaps, now we'll even hear Currant Buns voicing some approbation for the conduct of that "Rangers legend" Mr McCoist and his responsibility if partial for the position Rangers find themselves in. Edited March 5, 2014 by stillresigned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 This is an article from last year and Dave King has nothing to do with the current board. I'm suprised we are so far behind on here with the statements between King and the spivs. Not at all. You have missed the point, i.e that King seemed happy with the way that Mather and Stockbridge were running the club. Now King is ready to talk to the current board after being told to attend a board meeting. It appears that he has been using the fans as leverage to re-gain influence, possibly another invitation to join the board. Rangers are asset rich but lack working capital as a result of blowing the IPO cash. The shareholders, especially the Easdales, may/will have to put in more money, i.e. equity or loans. There, however, is a cheaper loan on offer. Talk of Rangers' demise is premature. There will, however, be need to be a lot of re-structuring and cost savings to balance the books. They may need to sell and lease back Ibrox or Murray Park. McCoist may have to sell or off-load the high earners. The next few months are going to be very revealing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Kni, you are right, demise is of course premature. An admin event however seems likely at some point this year as how else are they to make the cut backs that are required? The way they are structured now - funnily enough as 2 separate companies, one the controlling company the other to run the club, just like the pretend situation 'Gers fans claimed for oldco - means that a Rangers of some sort will survive this but as you say maybe having to rent their ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Sevco 5088 Scotland pretty much hit the ground running after their formation in 2012, albeit with a large crop of vastly overpaid diddies for a squad operating in a works league, and that seemed to be possible due to Green's dodgy mob managing to declare ownership of the stadium and training ground. Sevco's acquisition of those assets, at the notional price paid for them, was at best shrouded in some degree of dubiety. So, what chance a future tribunal holds that the whole stadium acquisition palaver was part of an (elaborate) scam, and that the 'transaction' is declared void pending investigation into the propriety of the 'deal', resulting n the poor wee mites ending up destitute and, well, totally fcked? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 for all the hilarity he provided, it seems that bomber was right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billko Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Not at all. You have missed the point, i.e that King seemed happy with the way that Mather and Stockbridge were running the club. Now King is ready to talk to the current board after being told to attend a board meeting. It appears that he has been using the fans as leverage to re-gain influence, possibly another invitation to join the board. Rangers are asset rich but lack working capital as a result of blowing the IPO cash. The shareholders, especially the Easdales, may/will have to put in more money, i.e. equity or loans. There, however, is a cheaper loan on offer. Talk of Rangers' demise is premature. There will, however, be need to be a lot of re-structuring and cost savings to balance the books. They may need to sell and lease back Ibrox or Murray Park. McCoist may have to sell or off-load the high earners. The next few months are going to be very revealing! Stockbridge and Mather are gone and alot happens in a short time with Rangers these days especially with the spivs in control of the club and the revelations that keep comimg out of Ibrox with them in charge. The recent in house loans at inflated rates and ignoring other more sensible options should confirm even to those Rangers fans who for some strange reason still back this board that they should not receive a penny more. Get the money game by game and no way should they get a lump sum to blow just like the have done with the millions and millions since they took control. If King and the fans group can set up something that is workable for the club to receive money game by game then it can only benefit Rangers.in the long run. As for the leaseback of the assets well this is obviously the spivs agenda from the start and the end game they have planned. No more from me on this subject and will let you all carry on with this thread. Thistle takes up most of my time these days anyway so i don't want to spend forever replying to things about Rangers on a Jags forum. Hope you all understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Get the money game by game and no way should they get a lump sum to blow just like the have done with the millions and millions since they took control. If King and the fans group can set up something that is workable for the club to receive money game by game then it can only benefit Rangers.in the long run. Why should the club hand over a season ticket and it's benefits to someone who wants to effectively pay at the gate. What a fckin ridiculous idea. Will King get to keep the interest off the millions paid in season tickets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 A pal of mine (possibly a Rangers supporter) thinks that they will go into voluntary administration before the end of the season - accept the 25 point penalty that would still let them win the league - and then start the new season in the Championship with little or no debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 (edited) A pal of mine (possibly a Rangers supporter) thinks that they will go into voluntary administration before the end of the season - accept the 25 point penalty that would still let them win the league - and then start the new season in the Championship with little or no debt. Does your "pal" have any professional knowledge of Rangers' finances or corporate finance? Administration would mean that the Easdales and Laxey Partners would lose their investment. Rangers are asset rich and but have a cash-flow problem. Sandy Easdale has bought up large tranches of shares in the last few months. He has just lent Rangers £500k interest free. Laxey's loan premium is convertible into shares with the loan being secured on valuable assets. A more likely scenario is that they (and possibly other investors) will lend more cash, if necessary, to provide more working capital to fund the restructuring. Rangers can still use Ibrox and Murray Park as security. Or does your pal have other information to back up his thinking? Edited March 5, 2014 by kni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Rangers are losing money hand over fist. Please explain how a working capital injection will save them over £1m per month to stem their losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Does your "pal" have any professional knowledge of Rangers' finances or corporate finance? Administration would mean that the Easdales and Laxey Partners would lose their investment. Rangers are asset rich and but have a cash-flow problem. Sandy Easdale has bought up large tranches of shares in the last few months. He has just lent Rangers £500k interest free. Laxey's loan premium is convertible into shares with the loan being secured on valuable assets. A more likely scenario is that they (and possibly other investors) will lend more cash, if necessary, to provide more working capital to fund the restructuring. Rangers can still use Ibrox and Murray Park as security. Or does your pal have other information to back up his thinking? Was it Easdales money for both the loan and for the purchase of the shares, or is he a front for someone else, remember his bus company hasn't turned a profit in years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Strategically going into administration before the end of the season makes sense. Very little tho' makes sense about sevco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted March 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Strategically going into administration before the end of the season makes sense. Very little tho' makes sense about sevco. Aye, but don't forget we arra peepil! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Strategically going into administration before the end of the season makes sense. Very little tho' makes sense about sevco. Would a second administration now would delay Rangers' eligibility to play in Europe, by two years? UEFA would look dimly on a second admin so soon after a the first admin and liquidation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted March 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Would a second administration now would delay Rangers' eligibility to play in Europe, by two years? UEFA would look dimly on a second admin so soon after a the first admin and liquidation. In that case, it's probably just as well that the footballing authorities in this country are likely to prove considerably more sanguine over the prospect. Nothing in the reaction of the governing bodies in this country viz. Ranger's financial conduct fills me with any expectation that they are likely to be any more proactive, should a second insolvency event occur, no doubt out of so much thin air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banderas Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 (edited) in an attempt to start a house fire , it would be a first insolvency event the previous version is going through liquidation procedures . How the football authorities deem is confusing as in the procedural activities this version are being treated as New , but the narrative in football terms from the football authorities is to see this version as a continuation. of that in Liq.... (oops nearly said it ) . The link and copy below somewhat explains the possible mechanics of Admin , (1 or 2 based on your footballing views). some thoughts from TSFM contributor Campbellsmoney: http://www.tsfm.net/...ge-10/#comments 1. Limited owes PLC a lot of money (let’s assume it is £20m). PLC sells that debt to a BVI company – Rangers International Cash Holdings (“RICH”). PLC already knows that Limited cannot repay that £20m so PLC is prepared to discount the debt. That debt is sold by PLC to RICH for £15m. RICH is now the creditor in Limited. PLC now has £15m. 2. Limited goes into administration and immediately effects a pre-pack sale of its heritable assets for market value (say £20m) to PLC. That is payable as to £15m on day one and £5m over (lets say) 5 years. Leases are entered into between PLC and Limited to allow Limited to continue to use the heritable assets going forward. This provides an income stream for PLC for ever and it can use this income to pay the deferred consideration. 3. The administrators in Limited have £15m to play with immediately and £5m more to come. They have (say) £25m of creditors. (This is only the case however if they keep Limited going as a going concern. The amount of creditors would increase substantially on a break up.) The administrators in Limited propose a CVA whereby the £15m that they hold has to be distributed amongst ordinary creditors immediately (60p in the pound). The CVA also offers a further £4.5m over 5 years (that is a further 18p in the pound). The administrators keep £0.5m. 4. The CVA is approved because RICH (an unconnected party) itself holds 80% of the total creditor debt. Thereafter, the administrators distribute £12m of the £15m to RICH and £3m amongst the other creditors. A further £4.5m will be split in the same (80:20) ratio over the next 5 years. Total return to RICH is £15.6m over 5 years on a £15m investment. Other creditors get £3.9m in total. PLC gets the heritable assets and an income stream indefinitely. 5. The administrators sell the business and assets of Limited to whoever is daft enough to buy it (more return to creditors) or alternatively they hand the business back to the Directors at that point (who then trade on presumably on a much more realistic business model – but with additional lease costs) or perhaps the shares in Limited are sold by PLC (more return to PLC shareholders). That would be one way to do it. You can fiddle around with the numbers. The higher the deferred consideration compared to the amount RICH pays for the debt and therefore more rapacious the lease terms, the better the return to RICH and PLC and the more hamstrung the business of Limited becomes. Edited March 6, 2014 by banderas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyprusjag Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Yes ,that's all very well but was he offside when the ball was played ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggyMad Posted March 6, 2014 Report Share Posted March 6, 2014 Small question that I just cannot get round.... If indeed rangers are a new club as some say! How can a new club go into a 2nd administration. If they are a new club then surely it would be their 1st admin, So wit is it, are they a new club maybe going into admin or are they the same club maybe going into admin again. Can't be both! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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