Kapiti Jag

That's not even remotely true.

Ooft!

This argument is nonsense. The people who sing the songs that the Old Firm sing are not "people of faith," they are religious bigots. They have the usual twisted view of religion and faith that goes with this, I doubt even 25% of them are even religious in any way—they just use their songs as hatred. Our song could, and should, be seen as supporting people of actual faith by pointing out that the Old Firm's version of religion is poisoned, this is fundamentally why it's 'your' and not 'the'. I have no skin in this game but if we are forced to stop singing this song with its positive connotations so that the Old Firm can keep their vitriolic chants then we have become a true cuddly toy off the field as well as on. If we do drop it it should at least be recognised for what it is, its real meaning, otherwise we'll just go down in the books as the wee sectarian club who was forced to stop singing a song; after all history is written by the victors and that certainly won't be us… as usual.

Oh they know the difference, but that wouldn't stop them using us as a scapegoat and example rather than go after the real culprits simply because we're an easy target. We don't need to make it easier for them by actually singing 'the' instead of 'your'. This song will die out when people individually stop singing it, so it really does come down to supporter choice I suppose—you'll never ban a song by diktat.

I wish people would get this right, it's FyourP and FyourQ — it's an anti-sectarian song, it's supposed to shine a light on the bigotry of the arse cheeks while showing that we are different. If we're actually singing FtheP and FtheQ then we deserve whatever punishment is dished out.

How exactly does an anti-sectarian song become a sectarian one in twenty-thirty years? Why are we having to defend being anti-sectarian given what goes on in Glasgow every week at either Ibrox or Parkhead? This whole situation is nonsense and we should be treating it as such. Bigger problems at the club than this pish.

I agree that it's no longer relevant, and it would have been equally irrelevant had the vote went the other way as it would have been 'fulfilled'. On the other hand what else is there? Scotland the Brave? Um…

I seem to recall that the rental would be worth in the region of £600K to Aberdeen which was, coincidentally, the amount due to Dunfermline for Jimmy Calderwood to move to Pittodrie as manager. There were also vicious rumours of Milne having some involvement in Tynecastle, something to do with flats? All patently untrue of course…

There was talk, a couple of years ago, of PDF programmes being made available either individually or on a subscription basis. Was there ever any movement on this?

Sounds great. I'm still struggling to understand what this has to do with where Sevco play—why can't we have this anyway? Sevco apply to join the lower tiers and work their way up, just like any other new team would.

I still don't understand why we have to have newco? If these changes are truly for the good of the game then we should be getting them anyway, without any reference to any team (or non-team) in any league. But then I think we all know the answer to that—the level of corruption evident in the game is pretty clear to everyone now but I won't be holding my breath waiting on UEFA or FIFA to do anything.

Only if they're in it. If we sell the soul of the club to make that happen then we're clearly kidding no-one, quite the opposite—we'd be admitting to all and sundry that we are nothing but Sevco's bitches and we'll never, NEVER, be able to take a principled stand on anything ever again. PTFC supporters will be ridiculed and shamed wherever they go, and there'll be no snappy comeback lines available. If this happens then the club is utterly worthless and certainly not worthy of the support of the teenagers who currently don't care one jot about Sevco. As for translating the opposition on here to the general Thistle support: have you seen the various fans' surveys? The opposition is above 90% across the board I think you are just choosing not to see it.

And reorganising the whole of Scottish football to accommodate a single corrupt and bigoted club in our league for a single season is the way to get the JHS jumping with weans? I think not. And neither does anyone else it would seem. The fans out there who are saying no to newco are the very people that you are talking about attracting to Firhill, you vote yes and you'll never see them. How do you think new fans are introduced? Mostly though their parents—you know, the season ticket holders over 50. A yes vote will turn entire families, and future generations, away from PTFC. You need to accept that you're in a tiny, tiny minority with this—there's your "gauging of fan opinion" if you wanted it right there. If you claim to represent OneThistle in any way then I'm seriously worried. You need to start listening. The least you could do would be to post on here that you recognise, as a representative of OneThistle, that the overwhelming majority of PTFC fans are against these proposals. A couple of times I've seen posts from you attempting to minimise the numbers who are opposed. It's nearly 100%. I'd like to see you admit it publicly.

A significant number? Have you met or heard from anyone who is not opposed? Let's not beat about the bush here, the significant number must be pushing 100%—from all clubs' supporters. Given the latest reports, including the bribery and blackmail, opposition will only strengthen. It's untenable to 'wait and see', that's a Jags Trust trait that I don't want to see the mysterious OneThistle team adopt. Act now, or at least have the balls to say that you're not going to act at all.

No reply here, but would expect a clear statement rather than individual replies to what is, hopefully, a barrage of emails. If the club do the right thing, should the actual need to vote arise, I might even get myself a season ticket this year, even though the flights to attend might be a bit on the pricey side...

No doubt HMRC would also like to send a message to the clubs in England whose financial situations are not too great—better to make an example of a Scottish club. But it'd have to be a big enough club for them to take note so their options will always be limited to two. On the other hand I fully expect all of this to come to nothing and Rangers to get off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist and a nod and a wink from the SPL. As usual.

Friday night football is great, I'm all for it. Not only do we get resounding victories but I can actually watch the live text updates in real time (it's half-9 on Saturday morning here!) ;-)

Heh.

A little bit too quick with the racism card there, I meant more progressive in comparison to the Scotland of, say, 20 years ago, not in comparison to any other country. (Who I believe are all the same race anyway.) That's a good point though, in an independent Scotland who would the opposition be? Would there ever be a Scottish Labour or Conservative party (or any other) which could convince the voters that they were truly divorced from control by their English counterparts?

I've quite enjoyed reading this thread, it's good to be able to see such a spread of opinion, but this is by far the most depressing part. I remember when the smoking ban was going through thinking how progressive it was and that I was proud of Scotland for taking such action. That was just part of looking at a more promising future. There's been some more since, and I think that minimum pricing for alcohol was born of the same spirit (if you'll pardon the pun). It's a shame that it was blocked by petty party politics. I'm wondering if it will be back on the agenda now that the SNP have a majority. I view independence with the same progressive attitude; I think it's the next logical step for Scotland and I've yet to see any argument against it other than the negative doom-sayers. No-one on the pro-independence side is saying that it'll be easy, or even a success, but I think it's clear to most in Scotland that the status-quo doesn't suit a more progressive Scottish psyche (which has been a long time coming)—the election results show that (in part at least). As someone who did just that in 2010 I can say that this was definitely part of the reason why we left. We considered a lot of arguments and it came down to this: we could stay and hope for independence and be facing maybe a generation of nation-building struggle (which our children would have to do, not us) or we could get out. In the end it seemed unlikely that independence was on the horizon, Labour had wrecked the UK and the Tories looked a shoe-in at the next election (to finish the job), so we escaped (and that's what it felt like to us). Now we're hoping that we might have to apply for Scottish passports in a few years and emigrate again!

The 'further penalty' part was quashed at the SFA appeal.

I am thankfully oblivious having used the Ignore Poster feature as soon as he appeared on here simply based on the crap spouted on the old .net forum.

Does anyone ever have a jobby in the bogs in the JH? I would never dream of baring my delicate cheeks at the porcelain in there!

Is it just me or is there nothing in this that we didn't already know?

Seriously? It is an interesting point, our situation can be put down to incompetence whereas Dundee's can be put down to cheating/ignoring the obvious. Which is worse? Hobson's Choice really...