Woodstock Jag
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Posts posted by Woodstock Jag
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10 minutes ago, a f kincaid said:
Anyone got a link to the Championship shares of the prize money this season? "Needle and haystack" springs to mind.
Gross league prize-money difference is about ÂŁ100k between 1st and 2nd, then ÂŁ90k for each place between 2nd and 5th, then ÂŁ30k between 5th and 6th, then ÂŁ15k per place between 6th and 10th.
The net impact on the budget for each place is smaller (for example you need to take into account the footballing department’s bonus structure) but the fundamentals of the numbers haven’t shifted very much for many seasons now.
The team finishing bottom of the Premiership get roughly double the pot that the Championship winners get.
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That's us mathematically guaranteed at least 5th, as Dunfermline and Ayr play each other final day (so only one of them can overhaul the 9 point gap).
But a bit nervous now with Airdrie. Playing each other, both still to play the league winners, and then they have Queen's Park while we have Ayr. Probably their run-in marginally easier.
Big game Saturday. Finishing 3rd instead of 4th is really handy financially.
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5 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:
Dunfermline back levelÂ
Not for long...
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2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:
We were in 3rd place prior to the last game, so we only dropped one spot.
I think the point is that if we'd won the game instead of drawn it, we'd have finished above both Ayr and Queen's Park.
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Apart from today and last weekend, when if at all have the surnames of the Thistle goalkeeper and the entire back line all begun with the same letter (Mitchell, McMillan, Muirhead, McBeth, Milne)?
What’s the highest number of Thistle players with the same first letter of surname to have been on the park at the same time?
And what was the narrowest alphabetical spread of any Thistle starting XI (eg today’s was F(itzpatrick) to R(obinson) but had an astonishing 8 players across consecutive letters LMN)?
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Boing. Boing.
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47 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:
Not if we are relegated this yearÂ
Only two teams have ever finished second bottom in the second tier of Scottish football on more than 39 points.
We are already on 40 points.
Bad as the last few weeks have been, we really would be setting new trends to be a relegation risk this year.
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That was genuinely painful viewing from start to finish.
This run is grim.
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Hampden is a terrible place to watch a second tier football match.
G4S are a consistently rubbish organisation.
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14 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:
As it is the time a lot of clubs have to file their accounts on Companies House here are a few of our fellow Championship club's as it allows us to have a bit of comparison.
Raith Rovers
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC026287/filing-history
Morton
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC003264/filing-history
Dunfermline
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC011580/filing-history
Queens Park
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC005382/filing-history
Enjoy, if numbers, are your thing.
Raith Rovers: living off advances for working capital, directors' loans and even selling off their floodlights
Dunfermline: ÂŁ1 million loss and a tricky going concern statement
Queens' Park: lost ÂŁ750k over an 18 month (extended) accounting period, despite this (mostly) not involving the lion's share of the Lesser Hampden redevelopment costs. Being propped-up by, among other things, the multi-million cash proceeds accrued from selling Proper Hampden.
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Neilson ultimately to blame for the goal by failing to clear, but he looks much more comfortable in the defensive mid berth than at left centre back.
Think we also learned today that it’s more important for Wasiri to be at right centre back than for Muirhead to be.
Scott Robinson was decent too.
Folk were worried that with this line up we’d be overrun in midfield but it was anything but.
Tired a bit late on but much optimism.
Also Dundee United are an incredibly dirty team.
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Really good performance today and much more assured in defence. Excellent performances from Mitchell and Wasiri especially.
We’re going to be fine. Doolan is learning.
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Wasiri deserves that one!
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10 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:
I have no idea on any level who provided the information for the statement & I have neither stated nor implied anything of the sort your suggestingÂ
However given the Financial position that the Board inherited - common sense would be to make your own analysis of any previous decisions & not take as read that they are correct Â
I hear Douglas Noble once said that Earth's atmosphere contains oxygen, so I'm now roaming Alexandria wearing diving apparatus.
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Just now, Jordanhill Jag said:
The primary aim for Partick Thistle Football Club for season 2022/23 is to regain Premiership status. The management team were given a budget to support this objective.
Given the playing squad assembled for this season, everyone at the club was united in the belief that this was an achievable prospect.
One thing to Note - the Replacement Board had No idea if this was correct - as none of them apart from Smillie were part of the Board who set the Targets  Â
Gerry Britton was also there as Chief Executive. Are you suggesting that he and Smillie fraudulently misrepresented the decisions of the Club Board to its incoming directors?
Are you absolutely sure this is the road you want to go down, Jim?
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Just now, Jordanhill Jag said:
I stand corrected
Taking a screenshot of this for posterity!
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3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:
We were off the Play Off Spot by one pointÂ
Are you suggesting if Dools is in a Similar position we sack him ? Â
That's a judgment call for the Club Board.
Personally, I would not (speaking purely as a fan) support the dismissal of Doolan if we narrowly missed out on the play-offs this season. He's a young manager and deserves time and resources to get it right.
I have less patience for a manager who failed to salvage our place in the Championship when brought in in 2019, had more than a full season to establish his preferred squad, and had us losing to part-time football teams and losing momentum.
Is the loss of momentum in recent games concerning? Absolutely.
Are Doolan's and McCall's positions remotely comparable? Absolutely not.
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4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:
They Quoted the Growing Gap Between the League Leaders & where Thistle were sitting when they dismissed McCall - we were one point off the Play Off Spot Mid Feb - so still in contentionÂ
So No - Im not talking Rubbish Â
Yes you are. Here's the direct quote in the Club statement, in full:
QuoteThe primary aim for Partick Thistle Football Club for season 2022/23 is to regain Premiership status. The management team were given a budget to support this objective.
Given the playing squad assembled for this season, everyone at the club was united in the belief that this was an achievable prospect.
The decision to relieve the management team of their duties in relation to the first team was a strategic decision to achieve this objective. The timing of this decision was to allow maximum preparation time for our vital upcoming cinch Championship match with Ayr United.
Ian, Alan and Neil deserve a huge and sincere thank you from all at Partick Thistle Football Club for their leadership over the past three-and-a-half years, including winning the League 1 title. They have operated in challenging circumstances, most notably during the pandemic and then as we transition to fan ownership, but there can be no doubt they have left the men’s team in a much stronger position than when appointed in September 2019.
Our squad remains strong, our season’s objective remains unchanged. With more than a third of the season to go, the squad have already demonstrated they are capable of a strong run of form as evidenced at the start of the season where we sat atop of the Championship standings after the tenth round of games.
Kris Doolan and Paul McDonald have been asked to step up on short notice from our Academy to look after first team matters on an interim basis. We would ask that all players, staff and supporters give them their united backing throughout this time.
You're just making stuff up. I keep receipts, Jim.
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57 minutes ago, scotty said:
Do clubs actually benefit much financially from the play-offs? I seem to recall something about the gate money being split between the clubs and the SPFL. I do realise that the prize money is greater the higher up we finish.
They typically have a very modest impact (less than the impact of, for example, finishing 2nd instead of 3rd) because a significant proportion of ticket revenue goes directly to the SPFL and most Clubs' bonus structures pay out more to players depending on performances in the play-offs themselves.
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4 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:
I've made absolutely zero up - that's complete and utter tripeÂ
Every Target stated for the Two Managers was put out by the Board from there various announcementsÂ
There is No Agenda or "Chip on my Shoulder " Ive pointed out that the Board introduced a dismissal process based on certain Targets being missed - you & WJ argued very strongly that they were justified in doing this regards McCall ( fair enough )Â
NOW your arguing that despite missing the Boards Targets - Dools should be kept onÂ
So either Dools goes OR the Dismissal Strategy of Firing Managers is wrongÂ
Your Running away because you don't want to upset the Board Members- after all TJF and the Board are pretty much the one thing these days & how dare anyone criticise the Board Members   Â
Utter nonsense.
The footballing justification given for relieving McCall of his duties was that a change of manager was more likely to secure promotion. The concerns about the likelihood of having a chance to achieve this were heightened by McCall overseeing the Club fall out of the play-off places, which would leave it completely ineligible for promotion at the end of the season.
Doolan was hired to improve the league position and did so, securing a play-off spot. He failed to win promotion, but no one said that was the condition of his employment.
At the moment, Kris Doolan's side is in the play-offs, which meets the target set by the current board, and actually exceeds the position on which budgeting assumptions are now made at the Club.
So you're wrong about literally everything.
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3 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:
Well that's not the Board StrategyÂ
McCall was given a target of Promotion Outright by Winning the League by the Jlo Board - few week as after replacing the Jlo Board the New Board judged this to be a written in stone target - and the Manager was fired for not being in a position to achieve the Jlo Target ( you and WJ both from TJF have argued this was the correct thing to do )Â
I'll stop you right there. At absolutely no point did the New Board state, or even imply that the target was "Promotion Outright by Winning the League".
They said that the target was promotion.
Not to win the league outright.
So you're just talking rubbish.
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40 minutes ago, javeajag said:
Thanks for that ….its a financial budgeting statement which is not the same as the manager will be sacked if we don’t finish third ( which would be daft anyway ) statement.
Correct.
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9 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:
How come other Championship Teams manage to sack Managers and not have to appiont inexperienced "legends" ? Â
For the most part, they run losses underwritten by soft loans, other forms of debt, or regular investment from benefactors.
Dundee lost over ÂŁ800k in 2021-22 and posted substantial six-figure losses last season too.
Dundee United have consistently posted seven figure losses in recent seasons.
Raith Rovers saw heavy reliance on benefactors in recent seasons, and only made profits when on good cup runs. Their new investors say they have drastically improved their position. We shall have to wait and see if this is off the back of a decent league campaign or something more.
Morton lost six figure sums in both of the last two seasons despite big Old Firm Cup ties away from home.
Queen's Park are burning through the multi-million proceeds of selling the national stadium.
Ayr United have been underwritten by various benefactors in recent seasons.
Inverness lost over ÂŁ800k last year and is relying on land redevelopment projects to remain viable.
Dunfermline has lost the best part of ÂŁ1 million in the last two seasons.
Arbroath are a part-time football team.
Cove Rangers are a part-time team and got relegated.
Airdrieonians are half a million pounds in debt.
Hamilton had a massive cash legacy from a youth set-up and squandered it on Nigerian Princes. And got relegated.
All of these teams in the 2nd tier this year or last. Which of these teams do you suggest we emulate?
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1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:
First Given I don't drink -I can count on the one hand the amount of times Ive been in Munns in the last few SeasonsÂ
My point exactly.
You were there for one of the playoff games. We had a conversation!
1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:There was certainly info from inside the Club on how McCall had been “ warned about how he spoke to the press “ in the run up to his sacking -and yes that was being given out to “ influential fans” so was there a conspiracy - there was certainly a clear message and numerous influential fans being “ on message” that he should be sacked - the way it happened was the “ surprise” not the fact it happened as it was being built up in previous weeks and a clear message being sent out via
“ trusted sources”Â
Name names or stop talking rubbish.
1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:Was there those on the Board with there own Agenda -regards removing McCall - YesÂ
But ultimately he was sacked for being 10 points off the League Leaders as the previous Board ( from what we are supposed to believe ) had his target as Promotion - he was a point off the play offs
If you’re not in the playoffs you can’t win promotion.
They concluded there was a better chance of promotion with Doolan than McCall. Whilst unfalsifiable because counterfactuals literally are unprovable this was a perfectly respectable position to arrive at, bearing in mind he had in recent weeks lost to the two teams who eventually got relegated and he had presided over the Club dropping to 5th place.
1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:So the Board were only too happy to run with the previous Boards targets - I suppose if you didn't think that due diligence was required for Share Transfer that makes sense to accept everything the previous Board said was 100% accurate
This makes no sense Jim. Just because the old board were wrong about some things doesn’t suddenly mean that the footballing expectations for a football budget that was fully honoured should suddenly be cast aside.
1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said:Any Fans organisation who thinks the manner in which McCall was treated was OK - and goes along with it -you have to ask questions of - any fan organisation who sat there and let there statements be contradicted has no prideÂ
TJF was very clear that it found the timing of the announcement to be far from satisfactory. On that side of things you will hear no dispute.
But the decision about whether to relieve McCall of his duties was, rightly, one for the Club Board and not for any fan group.
On this point I speak purely as a fan of the football club when I say I believe there were valid footballing reasons for him being moved on.
You can’t see that because you’re blinded by the fact he’s your mate.
Partick Thistle 🔴🟡 Vs The Vile Diamond ♦️♦️
in Main Jags forum
Posted
Statistical pedants are the vital core of our support.