The Devil's Point Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 The greatest thing that happened this weekend was Kingussie winning the Cammanacht Cup. In 1914 pretty much every boy in Kingussie got on the train to France. The great side of the early century, all went to the front. The fact the whole team, and their fans, went down in a hail of german machine gun fire is commerated in the gardens to this day. Hearts deserve recognitoin for the team they sent to the front, but Kingussie did it too. And when your partner jumped in front of a train, tell me you know. Because you don't. x . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Politics isn't welcome on my doorstep when I have a "no" guy turning to my nine year old daughter and telling her she can blame her dad when she can't get a job or go to university. I nearly fell chasing him up the street. Fuming. I was really polite up to that point. Anyway, the whole city was fair game for politics this weekend, very unrealistic to think that Firhill could be any different. No objection to stalls outside, or people of both sides wearing their badges and t-shirts. Wouldn't like to see the club being associated with one side though, and not sure that I'm that keen on the stripey yes badges, which made a connection that doesn't represent all fans. Comparisons with OF sectarianism are frankly cringeworthy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Indeed, I don't exactly hang a union jack out my window, let alone my shorts. If I want to wear my kilt I'll do it my time, baws The hilarious irony of all of this is that the Orange Order will be proved right. God save our gracious queen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Indeed, I don't exactly hang a union jack out my window, let alone my shorts. If I want to wear my kilt I'll do it my time, baws The hilarious irony of all of this is that the Orange Order will be proved right. God save our gracious queen,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ^^^ Full of the drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 ^^^ Full of the drink. Rubbish, I'm working my way through a 2 litre bottle of Irn Bru. So don't give me any of the pished chat, ya dobber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 (edited) Football is above politics. Of course it sticks it's beak into the beautiful game, but the basic attraction to kicking a ball does not depend on one's world view. We do it, and appreciate it, for the sake of it... it's purely, as the french would say "joie de vivre". Football should be a distraction from every day life. I think of the "Christmas truce", western front, WW1. Whether or not you beleive it was mixed teams, the Bosch v the Allies or just our boys having a side-y with a deid rat or a billy-can as the baw, when the politics got in the way the fun was cancelled, even banned. Think too of the Makana F.A.. Set up, and run by the prisoners on Robben island. Although, most were imprisoned on political charges or for dubious charges because of their political beleifs, there were a variety of political stances on how to tackle apartheid. However, they put aside the squabbles between ANC and PAC, firstly to persist in requests to be allowed to play (it took them 2 years) and then to form mixed teams and a highly organised, structured, league of 3 divisions which ran for about 8 years. A football club's raison d'etre is entertainment. Yes a community builds around it and that community in turn may acheive good things away from the game, but if that community seeks the differences between it's number, celebrates or promotes them, or incorporates them in it's identity, it will inevitably be distracted and weakened in it's primal cause. I present exhibits "1690" and "1916" M'lud. Two very large and exclusive tribes led by companies posing as some kind of pseudo football club. Mandela reputedly said, "football made us feel alive and triumphant despite the situation we found ourselves in". Whatever the result of thursday, The Jags will play The Buddies on the friday. That's the "bubble" we are all in, and it's no bad thing. Whether you are jubilent or despondent before a ball is even kicked, don't hi-jack the BIG MATCH and glee when your fellow jag may be concerned. Saor Alba? Rule Britannia? ... eh.... f**k off a minute... screw the nut.... concentrate... this is important.... COME ON THE THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!! Edited September 14, 2014 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Admin, can we please move this topic to the general forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Admin, can we please move this topic to the general forum One of the best posts ever written for the place and time and you want it moved? I am for free speech, whether for or against the unionist position. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 But this isn't Arizona, this is Scotland 2014. Yeah, I have been on before, as Lib Dem candidate for Partick West two years ago. I took the abuse then, and I'll take it now. I have more confidence in my beliefs than they ever had in me. I am essentially a Liberal and a Democrat. It's why I joined the Liberal Democracts. I don't want to live in a fascist society where I am told what to think. Salmond is Mussollini in disguise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 But this isn't Arizona, this is Scotland 2014. Yeah, I have been on before, as Lib Dem candidate for Partick West two years ago. I took the abuse then, and I'll take it now. I have more confidence in my beliefs than they ever had in me. I am essentially a Liberal and a Democrat. It's why I joined the Liberal Democracts. I don't want to live in a fascist society where I am told what to think. Salmond is Mussollini in disguise. Why are you making Scotland's independence entirely about Salmond? He hasn't done much more than delivered to the Scottish people what they wanted by putting the SNP in power. He's not the leader of the Yes Scotland campaign and any negotiation from the UK will be done as a consortium along with other parties. The first vote in an independent Scotland will take place in 2016. If you want a lib dem party in power vote for them. If you want to place blame for an independent Scotland then start with Westminster for years of bad governance, and the appalling campaign that Better Together have ran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Nothing like a well loaded spliff and a hot chocolate to round off the weekend. Three points, who would have thought it. There have been battles, there will be more to come. To fight is to be alive. Mon the Jags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Why are you making Scotland's independence entirely about Salmond? He hasn't done much more than delivered to the Scottish people what they wanted by putting the SNP in power. He's not the leader of the Yes Scotland campaign and any negotiation from the UK will be done as a consortium along with other parties. The first vote in an independent Scotland will take place in 2016. If you want a lib dem party in power vote for them. If you want to place blame for an independent Scotland then start with Westminster for years of bad governance, and the appalling campaign that Better Together have ran. 23% of the electorate voted for the SNP at the Scottish elections is he the voice of the people, and at the general elections for Westminster 23% voted for the coalition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 the voice of the people It will go 53/47 for NO. Get your money down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 It will go 53/47 for NO. Get your money down. Hope you're totally wrong , don't really want to be governed by Tory millionaires , don't want to be scaremongered by business leaders who've backed and supported the Tory party for years . Don't want to be given advice by banks who went bankrupt and who we bailed out . The only reason Cameron etc are trying so hard now is because we've propped up their economy for years with our resources . Don't you think we've enough talented people in our country to make this work ? . Seize the chance . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Hope you're totally wrong , don't really want to be governed by Tory millionaires , don't want to be scaremongered by business leaders who've backed and supported the Tory party for years . Don't want to be given advice by banks who went bankrupt and who we bailed out . The only reason Cameron etc are trying so hard now is because we've propped up their economy for years with our resources . Don't you think we've enough talented people in our country to make this work ? . Seize the chance . Correct......Yes is a broad movement aimed at creating a better society where Partick Thidtle will win the league..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) 23% of the electorate voted for the SNP at the Scottish elections is he the voice of the people, and at the general elections for Westminster 23% voted for the coalition Your figures aren't correct. At the last Scottish elections the SNP received 45% of the popular vote (L32%, C14%,LD8%). Although not +50% they were preferred to any other party by a long way. Comparing this to the last General Election where the Conservatives came 4th in Scotland yet are in charge of our affairs, with the Lib Dems propping them up who came 3rd (L42%, SNP20%, LD19%, C17%). Our Scottish Parliament is much closer to what the people in Scotland voted for in the Scottish election than what he have been given in Westminster despite the Scottish results in the General Election. Overall in the UK, Conservatives only received 36% of the popular vote (less than what SNP received in the Scottish Elections). It's also important to remember that no-one actually voted for the coalition. It's fair to say the majority of Conservatives will have been ok with it as it leaves them in power but there were many Lib Dem voters left disillusioned with their party for the deal they made. For me, my decision in the referendum mainly comes down to who runs our affairs. We have a devolved Parliament who are given some money to run parts of our society. We are now being told by parties in WM there will be more powers to Scotland but they won't tell us what they are. We have a chance to take control of everything. No need to rely on the 'promises' of these other parties. We as a people can decide exactly what we want to do in our country, without being affected by how people in England decide to vote. I am under no illusions as to how risky this is and to the fact that we won't see the benefits of a Yes vote until maybe 15 or 20 years down the line. However, it's a risk worth taking compared to what we're being given at the minute. Edited September 15, 2014 by jagman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 But why not try Home Rule first? If there are no proper powers for the parliament forthcoming, I will join you in campaigning for independence next time. A NO vote gives us what we want, or at least a process. We will be able to argue about that and try and take it forward. One day there will be another referendum and we might all be ready by then. A YES vote is a terrifying gamble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Well, so much for keeping politics out of football or football out of politics. Who thinks the game on Frday should be postponed as no-one will be able to concentrateon the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 But why not try Home Rule first? If there are no proper powers for the parliament forthcoming, I will join you in campaigning for independence next time. A NO vote gives us what we want, or at least a process. We will be able to argue about that and try and take it forward. One day there will be another referendum and we might all be ready by then. A YES vote is a terrifying gamble. Well I'm listening to a Radio Scotland and the wheels are coming of the new powers bus.... - they have to be given by Westminster - powers are not yet agreed - won't be agreed before next general election - have to be approved by the House of Lords - English Tory MPs already said they are not happy So don't actually exist and not guaranteed .....sounds a risk to me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagman Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 But why not try Home Rule first? If there are no proper powers for the parliament forthcoming, I will join you in campaigning for independence next time. A NO vote gives us what we want, or at least a process. We will be able to argue about that and try and take it forward. One day there will be another referendum and we might all be ready by then. A YES vote is a terrifying gamble. Too late for me. They've had their chance. The 'timetable' for when we can get more devolved powers hasn't been guaranteed by the Conservatives, it's merely a possible process. It's been thought up in the last few weeks by a No campaign who realise many people are seeing through their scare tactics. If it was the intention to give us more powers then why hasn't it happened anyway? Devo-max would have been my preferred option ( I was intending to vote no to begin with) but it's clear that a no vote won't bring anything near Devo-max. Any powers we receive after a no vote will be minimal and sadly i can see things becoming worse for Scotland. I hope not, but I think some in WM might take the view ' they voted no, we can do what we want'. I think the result won't be as close as they are predicting, possibly 55-58% in favour of no, but I'm of the opinion we are missing a massive opportunity. Whatever the result, it has to be respected and we need to move forward using all the energy of recent campaigning to continue to hassle WM for better conditions for Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 My wife is expecting our first kid, we have saved money for a deposit to buy our first home and I work in technology specialising in financial organisations. Unless it's a No where we have the financial and economic strength and security of the UK keeping the pound and stability enhanced with a Scottish Parliament strengthened by tax raising powers so politicians are accountable I see future prospects far lower for the country and bleak for my family. The Yes campaign has been powerful but with little substance and lots of soundbites promising all things to all men (and women). Nobel laureate economists, independent reporters and hundreds of business organisations all say Scotland will be worse off. Not to say the years of unwinding a countries institutions and squabbling over who gets what with rUK, I'm just so bored of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Well I'm listening to a Radio Scotland and the wheels are coming of the new powers bus.... - they have to be given by Westminster - powers are not yet agreed - won't be agreed before next general election - have to be approved by the House of Lords - English Tory MPs already said they are not happy So don't actually exist and not guaranteed .....sounds a risk to me ! Fair comment, but its going to be a risk whichever way we jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) My wife is expecting our first kid, we have saved money for a deposit to buy our first home and I work in technology specialising in financial organisations. Unless it's a No where we have the financial and economic strength and security of the UK keeping the pound and stability enhanced with a Scottish Parliament strengthened by tax raising powers so politicians are accountable I see future prospects far lower for the country and bleak for my family. The Yes campaign has been powerful but with little substance and lots of soundbites promising all things to all men (and women). Nobel laureate economists, independent reporters and hundreds of business organisations all say Scotland will be worse off. Not to say the years of unwinding a countries institutions and squabbling over who gets what with rUK, I'm just so bored of it all. Agree with your comments, but can't believe people who find this boring. Not saying I'm right, but this could completely wreck our country. Edited to add - And congratulations on your expectancy. Whatever the gender, I hope you have a true Jag (and I'm sure you will). Edited September 15, 2014 by The Devil's Point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Fair comment, but its going to be a risk whichever way we jump. Sure.....but at least Yes have a vision for what kind of society we could be? What's the vision for the Union? vote No and leave Europe now there's a risk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 ^^^ The above is a depressing Yes tactic trying to minimise the legitimacy of an elected Parliament (and yet they always ignore power of EU. London = bad. Brussels = good). For the additional powers they will be debated on Friday 19th September in Westminster the day after the referendum. Command paper on 30th October. White Paper on 30 November. Legislation on 20th January. 2nd reading 7th May after General Election. http://www.bettertogether.net/blog/entry/change-is-coming-to-scotland-with-a-no-vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.