Where Have All The Fans Gone

[read'n'yell]

Thistle run at break even so the reason they charge £22 is because they have to. It's not fleecing. It's economics.

 

Short term thinking which has ruined the game. There will be a huge upheaval in the first few seasons. Will probably end up with much more youth players getting a game. I don't think it would harm the game requiring each team to play at least two under 21 scottish players. Not only will this save money but it will help the national game.

 

Eventually more fans will come back, its clear the one thing stopping it is the money. Only last week Bayern Leverkusen had all the publicity on how well they are doing with very cheap tickets. Our problem is individually I dont think any club can do this as it would give their competitors too much of an advantage. A Scottish wide economic plan for fan and youth development is needed.

[Barney Rubble]

Thistle run at break even so the reason they charge £22 is because they have to. It's not fleecing. It's economics.

 

Please justify this.

 

Educate us on what these economics are.

 

I'm open to being convinced, honestly.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Barney Rubble

[One t in Scotland]

Make it £10 and I doubt you'd get many more fans. People aren't interested in bog standard league games anymore. And who can blame them.

[MerryHell]

We were one of the more expensive days out in the recent BBC 'Cost of Football' report (in the Scottish Premiership anyway). That can't be ignored.

 

I'm happy for the club to try whatever they want to increase the gate - I'm a ST holder, but it's about much more than value for money so don't mind if PATG ends up the cheaper option.

[jlsarmy]

Make it £10 and I doubt you'd get many more fans. People aren't interested in bog standard league games anymore. And who can blame them.

Was interested in the attendance at Falkirk yesterday almost 3500 for a game against Cowdenbeath , think they started a scheme where if there was 0 - 0 scoreline then their season ticket holders were offered a free ticket for the next game.

Good on them for thinking outside the box and recognising it's an entertainment business. I'm sure they would have a got a spin off from their catering , merchandise etc . Easy to criticise, how do we market our games ? , shove it on a website and hope people turn up, there is so much scope within the West End whether that is advertising our games within pubs, engaging with local business , maybe even running free mini buses etc from the West End to Firhill on match days . IMO we could do a bit more .

[ColinKelvin]

Easy to criticise, how do we market our games ? , shove it on a website and hope people turn up, there is so much scope within the West End whether that is advertising our games within pubs, engaging with local business , maybe even running free mini buses etc from the West End to Firhill on match days . IMO we could do a bit more .

 

Couldn't agree more. We don't seem to make any effort at all to go after the student population in particular - not just in the west end but at the other unis too. There must be plenty of people out there, especially those from outwith Scotland, who come here to study, who might want to go and see non-OF football at least once in a while, and might end up being fans. Not once have I ever seen any promotion of Thistle around the west end (except pubs like Munros or Coopers who as far as I know do not actually sponsor the club) or on Glasgow U's campus.

 

With our obvious hipster appeal we should be chasing some admission-paying hipsters!

[Norgethistle]

Thistle run at break even so the reason they charge £22 is because they have to. It's not fleecing. It's economics.

 

That's to allow us (or any club) to pay the £700 + a week wages to players, now we could probably charge £10 but we would have a team of U20's and failed Juniors

[potty trained]

It would be interesting to see if the likes of Motherwell, St Mirren and even Killie have also noticed a drop Thinking that maybe more ICT and Ross C might travel to east coast venues; or maybe they just don't travel anywhere..

 

St Mirren are down 300 fans per game on average from last season.

 

Ave last season 4356

Ave this season 4051

 

 

County last year, had an attendance of 4205.

Today 3459

 

Last season home game against ICT - 3305

Last week 3109

 

Celtic at home last season 5778

This season 5280

 

Dundee United at home last season 4780

This season 4245

 

 

As far as I know these are home gate numbers but could stand corrected.

Edited October 26, 2014 by potty trained

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I wonder if our home gate is dependent more on who the opposition is than I'd have thought. For instance would less Jags fans turn up to see us playing Accies than if we were playing Hearts or Hibs?

 

This season we've played County, Accies, ICT, St Mirren, Motherwell & St Johnstone. Last season our first six home games saw us up against Dundee Utd, Hearts, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Hibs & Celtic. Obviously last season's would be considered higher profile opposition. In my mind I can't believe that this would significantly effect the number of Jags fans turning up But who knows?

[scottymagoo]

I agree with the doing more to attract students post and have thought this for some time. Students for a fiver (or similar token amount) if well publicised could be a great follow on to kids go free. We’ll get the usual ‘if they can afford to get pished in the union on a Friday night then they can afford to pay full price for a ticket’ crap but the fact is that if it’s a choice between spending £15 going to the union and trying to get your end away then sicking up everywhere or spending £15 going to Firhill to watch Thistle draw 0-0 with St Johnstone then the union is always going to win. In fact next time we play St Johnstone at home I might try and get someone to sign me into the union instead.

Edited October 27, 2014 by scottymagoo

[Jagman1876]

Again unpopular response no doubt but I agree - Rangers are missed by the whole of Scottish football

 

The reason the SPL doesn't have a sponsor is because Rangers ain't in it - it's that simple I'm afraid

[potty trained]

Again unpopular response no doubt but I agree - Rangers are missed by the whole of Scottish football

 

The reason the SPL doesn't have a sponsor is because Rangers ain't in it - it's that simple I'm afraid

 

How do we miss Rangers, just as a start.

 

We haven't played them in a league game in god knows how long.

[Norgethistle]

Again unpopular response no doubt but I agree - Rangers are missed by the whole of Scottish football

 

The reason the SPL doesn't have a sponsor is because Rangers ain't in it - it's that simple I'm afraid

 

The reason the SPL doesn't have a sponsor is because cockwomble isn't doing his job and will use it as leverage to shoehorn them in if they fail to get up this year.

[jagfox]

People have other commitments or pursuits on a Saturday. In the group of folks I go to there are two season ticket holders, one of whom has missed a couple of home games. I've missed one game through work. Another three have been to about half the games and there are another three or four who only make the odd game.

[Mr Bunny]

Again unpopular response no doubt but I agree - Rangers are missed by the whole of Scottish football

 

The reason the SPL doesn't have a sponsor is because Rangers ain't in it - it's that simple I'm afraid

 

Rubbish. They have done a deal with the TV people to show Rangers live and in highlights in a lower divisions that never used to get coverage. They could easily do a similar fix to get in a sponsor (in fact that TV deal should make it more possible to get a sponsor even with Rangers out of the top division). Maybe the lack of a guaranteed OF match each season would reduce the amount of money but they could still easily get a sponsor (maybe caveats about increased money if Rangers promoted). The reasons they haven't are:

 

1) They are incompetent

2) They've spouted on for a couple of years now about how football can't survive in Scotland without Rangers (though it has, comfortably) and are not trying too hard because if they got a good sponsor it would make them look even big fools and liars than they are (I admit the last point may not be possible)

3) They are incompetent

4) They are not trying too hard because they want to make a deal when Rangers are "back" and be able to say "We told you you needed them" (which will be nonsense as the deal will massively favour the OF and be of minimal help to all other teams).

5) They are completely useless and utterly incompetent.

 

Don't fall for the guff that Scottish football needs Rangers. Every club that has spent years in the lower divisions (that's us too) has survived without them or the other cheek. Maybe back when all gates were shared and there were no armchair TV fans they might have contributed a bit to other top league clubs but they haven't for a long time.

 

Scottish football would get on fine without the OF: we have clubs like Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs who if reasonably successful can have crowds in excess of 10,000 and the two Dundee clubs in the same situation would be just under that. When you consider that clubs like Motherwell and Hamilton can sometimes over-perform then you have the making of a half decent league. One less predictable than it's been for a very long time.

 

The OF are so huge support wise in our country it seems to blind the SMSM and the guys who run our game to any other considerations. They are incapable of thinking of "solutions" which don't give nearly everything to the OF and give the minimum to everyone else. Unfortunately the game elsewhere has shot so far ahead of the OF there's not much chance of getting rid of them. To repeat: the only team that really needs Rangers "back" is Celtic.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Mr Bunny

[La Scimmia Rossa]

A few weeks back , this forum was all about how the club weren't being adventurous. That they were skimping on wages and infrastructure. Now this week, for some, it's about 22 quid being too expensive. I agree that 22 quid is expensive. However i also recognise that to have a proper go at making headway in the SPFL it costs money. Once sponsorship deals have been signed, it fall on the fans to fund the club. Given there are only 2500-3500 of us, we have to pay the price.

 

Or we can accept that we don't want to pay it and also accept the consequences.

 

Is suspect that a few years in the SPFL will lead to the inevitable apathy. In turn, i also suspect we'll find our way back into the first division, where football is cheaper but the fans can moan about lack of ambition and lower crowds.

 

I've said many times on this forum that if you stood in the middle of Glasgow and handed out free tickets every week, you still wouldn't fill the stadium. If you can't give it away for free, i think lower prices will only have a marginal effect on crowds and make no difference overall to income.

Edited October 28, 2014 by La Scimmia Rossa

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

... ... ... ... ... ... ...

[Norgethistle]

Let's be honest, since the early 70's we have never consistently had much more than 5000 home fans, promotion seasons and big games will always boost the crowd, but since the tenements came down so have our crowds.

Now we have games on different days, people on strange shift patterns plus all the other distractions to spend their time and cash (and the pubs stay open in the afternoon).

40 years ago only shop workers were working Saturdays now all trades do, cinemas had matinees in the morning now open all day, no games consoles, no paintball, no indoor skiing or DIY shops to be dragged about.

Saturday was for football not much else to compete with, changed days and changed culture

[Mr Bunny]

Let's be honest, since the early 70's we have never consistently had much more than 5000 home fans, promotion seasons and big games will always boost the crowd, but since the tenements came down so have our crowds.

Now we have games on different days, people on strange shift patterns plus all the other distractions to spend their time and cash (and the pubs stay open in the afternoon).

40 years ago only shop workers were working Saturdays now all trades do, cinemas had matinees in the morning now open all day, no games consoles, no paintball, no indoor skiing or DIY shops to be dragged about.

Saturday was for football not much else to compete with, changed days and changed culture

 

When you put it like that we're doing well to get 3,000

[yokerjag]

A few weeks back , this forum was all about how the club weren't being adventurous. That they were skimping on wages and infrastructure. Now this week, for some, it's about 22 quid being too expensive. I agree that 22 quid is expensive. However i also recognise that to have a proper go at making headway in the SPFL it costs money. Once sponsorship deals have been signed, it fall on the fans to fund the club. Given there are only 2500-3500 of us, we have to pay the price.

 

Or we can accept that we don't want to pay it and also accept the consequences.

 

Is suspect that a few years in the SPFL will lead to the inevitable apathy. In turn, i also suspect we'll find our way back into the first division, where football is cheaper but the fans can moan about lack of ambition and lower crowds.

 

I've said many times on this forum that if you stood in the middle of Glasgow and handed out free tickets every week, you still wouldn't fill the stadium. If you can't give it away for free, i think lower prices will only have a marginal effect on crowds and make no difference overall to income.

 

why do we have to pay so much for a game when in germany for example it's around half the price we pay, and the standard is far better?

[Colognejag]

I had to pay 46 euro to watch Monchengladbach vs Mainz recently...

 

The cheap tickets are for the terracing, they are not all this price - effectively subsidised by higher seating prices I guess...

[potty trained]

 

 

why do we have to pay so much for a game when in germany for example it's around half the price we pay, and the standard is far better?

 

Because German football is heavily subsidised with sponsors

[lady-isobel-barnett]

People have other commitments or pursuits on a Saturday. In the group of folks I go to there are two season ticket holders, one of whom has missed a couple of home games. I've missed one game through work. Another three have been to about half the games and there are another three or four who only make the odd game.

 

Not disagreeing but most of the commitments and pursuits have always been there. More folk were likely to have been working on Saturdays when we got decent crowds. Shops weren't open on Sundays, online, late at night etc, so more reason to miss a game back whenever for family shopping.

[La Scimmia Rossa]

A simple example . If you have 3000 x £22 = 66k. If you drop the price to £17 it equals 3000 x £17 = 50k. That's a drop of £15k. Multiply that by 18 games and it comes to a short fall of £270k per season.

 

To bridge that gap of 15k each match, you'd need 15k/£17 = 882 new people every week. That's an increase of almost 25%. Is that realistic? I don't think so.

 

I'm not arguing that the £22 entry price is correct. It's just difficult to see what Thistle can do in isolation. there's no way we can attract 800-900 new people every week.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

A simple example . If you have 3000 x £22 = 66k. If you drop the price to £17 it equals 3000 x £17 = 50k. That's a drop of £15k. Multiply that by 18 games and it comes to a short fall of £270k per season.

 

To bridge that gap of 15k each match, you'd need 15k/£17 = 882 new people every week. That's an increase of almost 25%. Is that realistic? I don't think so.

 

I'm not arguing that the £22 entry price is correct. It's just difficult to see what Thistle can do in isolation. there's no way we can attract 800-900 new people every week.

 

Agree entirely. Isolation being the key word. I can't profess to knowing much about the German model but I doubt very much their pricing structure was initiated by one club and the others just fell in. I rather expect it was their FA and/or Bundesliga that led from the front. Leading from the front wouldn't be an expression you'd readily associated with Mssrs Reagan and Doncaster tho' to be fair the former was responsible for the £40+ tickets for the Georgia game. Pity the clown is so out of step he stuck the prices up.

 

LSR is spot on. We'd never increase our attendances by 600-900 by taking a £5 off the gate price. I certainly don't think so. We're not even sure that price/value for money is the principal reason for folk staying away. If they've now got some other interest on a Saturday afternoon it would take more than a £5 to tempt them to give up that interest.

 

There is a couple of things that could be done tho' it is papering round the cracks a bit.

 

The first could be to reverse the early bird idea re season tickets. Start selling on book value and once you've reached various thresholds pay out credits to those who bought initially and reduced credit to those purchasing at a later date. Not nearly as complicated as I'm making it sound. The Club still get at least the same income and the ST purchaser pays less by a scale wholly dependent on the uptake. Nobody's really a loser with that scheme. As a further safeguard credits could only be redeemed on the following season ticket purchase but that's optional.

 

The second, and there'll no doubt be some loony SPFL rule forbidding it, applies to away support. Basically some sort of reciprocal deal involving discounted away tickets. It would be up to the individual clubs to come to a reciprocal agreement but anything that increases the amount of away fans attending is surely worth looking into.

Edited October 29, 2014 by lady-isobel-barnett