Guy Incognito Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 the vow+ hahaha yeah cause the vow went so well ! gordon brown and jim murphy must think people are buttoned up the back ! http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-31090242 Former prime minister Gordon Brown and Scottish Labour leader Jim Murphy have pledged stronger welfare powers for Scotland. Would this be the former prime minister Gordon Brown who is retiring as an MP in May? And Scottish (branch) Labour leader Jim Murphy who is currently being cagey about whether he will even contest his own seat in May? That pair of chancers aren't in a position to offer anybody anything! You are right, they obviously think the Scottish electorate are daft. Then again, given that a clear majority of us seemingly fell for their propaganda during the referendum, can you blame them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 fixed that for you Christsake, jb; are we all to behave like children and change everybody's posts and add "LOL" or a Borat emoticon? Is that the level of your political argument? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Christsake, jb; are we all to behave like children and change everybody's posts and add "LOL" or a Borat emoticon? Is that the level of your political argument? some one else who needs to get over themselves, surely you can take a joke ...bloody hell you suppor(ted) the snp and the yes camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I think its nonsense that people voted No because of the vow. I doubt there actually many voters who hadn't made up their minds long before that. The freak poll that put the Yes campaign in front, was probably just caused by people claiming they would vote yes. It's the same way as a lot of folk don't admit they are going to vote Tory. The same kind of thing happened when Major beat Kinnock in 1992. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 some one else who needs to get over themselves, surely you can take a joke ...bloody hell you suppor(ted) the snp and the yes camp. Now that is quite funny. See, when you try hard you can behave like an adult! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I think its nonsense that people voted No because of the vow. I doubt there actually many voters who hadn't made up their minds long before that. The freak poll that put the Yes campaign in front, was probably just caused by people claiming they would vote yes. It's the same way as a lot of folk don't admit they are going to vote Tory. The same kind of thing happened when Major beat Kinnock in 1992. There's no lack of correspondence in papers by people who are regretting voting no, or at least they are claiming to now have regrets. I guess it's a question of what you (want to) believe what you read newspapers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 There's no lack of correspondence in papers by people who are regretting voting no, or at least they are claiming to now have regrets. I guess it's a question of what you (want to) believe what you read newspapers. I must admit, bar one or two usual subjects, I'm struggling to find anyone who'll admit to voting No. I even know a few Rangers supporters who voted Yes ferchrissakes! I know Glasgow is "a Yes city" but only by a small margin. Apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 I must admit, bar one or two usual subjects, I'm struggling to find anyone who'll admit to voting No. I even know a few Rangers supporters who voted Yes ferchrissakes! I know Glasgow is "a Yes city" but only by a small margin. Apparently. Me too: I reckon I know hundreds of people personally, from all walks of life, and around 90% of them are clearly "YES" voters, or at least that is what they say. No reason for them to lie, as nobody is going to bully them, just like nobody would bully a Labour supporter in the GE (pity, maybe, but not bully). That is one of the reasons that I have serious doubts about the authenticity of the result that was announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted February 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 There's no lack of correspondence in papers by people who are regretting voting no, or at least they are claiming to now have regrets. I guess it's a question of what you (want to) believe what you read newspapers. Yes (never thought I'd hear myself say that), that's all true. But there are lots of strange things going on. The apparent surge of SNP membership started way before any outcome about the vow was apparent. It almost seems to have become accepted that Scotland will become independent anyway. But I think that will be proved wrong. I still reckon, when it comes to the bit, people will vote on what prime minister they want (the voters always have done). And there is only going to be one winner in that, Mr Cameron. But that will be the best outcome for the SNP in theory. Will the UK vote for leaving the EU? That is the real question. If they do, the SNP will secure Independence, if not (and I doubt actually the voters will opt to leave when it comes to it) they will go back to a wee protest party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted February 3, 2015 Report Share Posted February 3, 2015 Yes (never thought I'd hear myself say that), that's all true. But there are lots of strange things going on. The apparent surge of SNP membership started way before any outcome about the vow was apparent. It almost seems to have become accepted that Scotland will become independent anyway. But I think that will be proved wrong. I still reckon, when it comes to the bit, people will vote on what prime minister they want (the voters always have done). And there is only going to be one winner in that, Mr Cameron. But that will be the best outcome for the SNP in theory. Will the UK vote for leaving the EU? That is the real question. If they do, the SNP will secure Independence, if not (and I doubt actually the voters will opt to leave when it comes to it) they will go back to a wee protest party. The surge in SNP membership is largely a consequence of independence being rejected. Many people in Scotland became politically awakened by the referendum and weren't for turning over and going back to sleep. Those favouring a Yes vote looked for the biggest vehicle to jump on and the SNP, undoubtedly, was it. Some of the SNP's new members might not agree with every aspect of party policy and perhaps wouldn't have voted SNP if the referendum had gone the way they wanted it to, but the game has changed. Being completely dispassionate and leaving policies to one side (although it can be argued that there is little difference between their two parties in that regard) Cameron is a vastly superior frontman than Milliband. I think most people can see that. What I cannot see, however, is significant numbers of people in Scotland voting for Cameron's party. They might do what they always do, and vote to try and keep his party out of power, but Labour are a shambles at the moment. But now there is a third option. The SNP, possibly for the first time in their history, look like a viable alternative at Westminster level. They have run Holyrood competently since 2007, they have a raft of new members and, from a left perspective, they are making all the right noises about halting the hated austerity measures. On that last point, they are essentially offering what Labour used to offer in the 1980s but which the head office has now banished from the menu for fear of upsetting 'Mondeo Man'. The sense of 'stolen claithes' is the root of the genuine, visceral hatred felt towards the SNP by Labour in Scotland and for as long as the SNP continues to do Labour's job for them I can't see them going back into the shadows as a 'wee protest party'. The SNP have two things going against them though. Firstly, they will never be able to form a government at UK level (although they could influence government policy, if their presence was strong enough) so we can expect to hear 'vote Labour to get rid of Cameron' repeated ad nauseam by various Labour types. Secondly, some of those Labour majorities they will be aiming to overturn are massive, and that's before we even factor in tactical voting. In addition, the calibre and level of experience of some of the SNP candidates is 'mixed'. With one or two exceptions, I think they possibly have more chance of winning seats currently held by the Lib Dems (sorry!). As for the EU, I am not convinced the UK would vote to leave it either (I'd expect the anti-EU side to face the same kind of media monstering that the Yes campaign encountered during the independence referendum, although unlike the Yes campaign it is starting in the lead). However, if a majority of voters in Scotland voted to remain in the EU but the rest of the UK voted to leave, then that would provide the ideal platform for a second independence referendum (as it could if Scotland voted to leave but the rest of the UK voted to stay in, but I am not sure how the pro-EU SNP would deal with that politically!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted February 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I wouldn't argue with most of that. If the UK votes out of the EU, even I might consider a Yes vote next time round. Don't think it will happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 As for the EU, I am not convinced the UK would vote to leave it either (I'd expect the anti-EU side to face the same kind of media monstering that the Yes campaign encountered during the independence referendum, although unlike the Yes campaign it is starting in the lead). I think that's absolutely right. In fact I'd even go further and suggest that "any steps necessary" might well be taken to make sure that the announcement will be that the UK has voted to remain in the EU, regardless of the true outcome. That's what I believe happened with the independence referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 I think that's absolutely right. In fact I'd even go further and suggest that "any steps necessary" might well be taken to make sure that the announcement will be that the UK has voted to remain in the EU, regardless of the true outcome. That's what I believe happened with the independence referendum. this is why we will never have any peace, because people don't want to believe they lost, just that they are hard done to, some people just need help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Me too: I reckon I know hundreds of people personally, from all walks of life, and around 90% of them are clearly "YES" voters, or at least that is what they say. No reason for them to lie, as nobody is going to bully them, just like nobody would bully a Labour supporter in the GE (pity, maybe, but not bully). That is one of the reasons that I have serious doubts about the authenticity of the result that was announced. you mean like calling them traitors and such like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 you mean like calling them traitors and such like? Oh, unionists crumble if they get called names, but they are free to launch just about every insult under the sun to people who rightly want to see Scotland run her own affairs rather than be controlled by another country's MPs? Diddums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted February 4, 2015 Report Share Posted February 4, 2015 Oh, unionists crumble if they get called names, but they are free to launch just about every insult under the sun to people who rightly want to see Scotland run her own affairs rather than be controlled by another country's MPs? Diddums. answering your post dafty "No reason for them to lie, as nobody is going to bully them" and it still happens. the rest as always in in your head. dum dum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 5, 2015 Report Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) answering your post dafty "No reason for them to lie, as nobody is going to bully them" and it still happens. the rest as always in in your head. dum dum In my head are lots of questions and doubts about the corruption and lies that permeate the entire fabric of the so-called united kingdom. In your head there appears to be an unquestioning, Bambi-like, wide-eyed, servile acceptance that your political and establishment masters know best. But maybe that is indeed best for you. Edited February 5, 2015 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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