Ken Bates / Partick Thistle

[jaggy]

I'm pretty sure Bates never owned us as league rules didn't allow anyone to own (or have a majority shareholding in)2 clubs, even in different countries.

 

the feeder club idea may have worked especially the way it started with West & Dodds, but the problem was dumping Johnstone on us. I'm also fairly sure that Johnstone was to be player/coach or similar under Bertie Auld (who had returned near the end of the previous season & managed to keep us up) but Bertie fell out with Bates & left before the season started. Johnstone was way out his depth which was a pity as the player/coach thing might have worked out.

 

When Bates left I think thats when Bobby Watson's consortium got involved & that was the start of our resurgence.

 

Thats my memory of the time, if some of it's wrong then tough cos I'm getting old & senile!!!

[Witch finder general]

I'm pretty sure Bates never owned us as league rules didn't allow anyone to own (or have a majority shareholding in)2 clubs, even in different countries.

 

the feeder club idea may have worked especially the way it started with West & Dodds, but the problem was dumping Johnstone on us. I'm also fairly sure that Johnstone was to be player/coach or similar under Bertie Auld (who had returned near the end of the previous season & managed to keep us up) but Bertie fell out with Bates & left before the season started. Johnstone was way out his depth which was a pity as the player/coach thing might have worked out.

 

When Bates left I think thats when Bobby Watson's consortium got involved & that was the start of our resurgence.

 

Thats my memory of the time, if some of it's wrong then tough cos I'm getting old & senile!!!

Cheers, very much appreciated,

[stuthejag]

John McNaught arrived from Chelsea in 1987 for a nominal fee under Bates. Chelsea had signed him from Hamilton the season before for a reported £82,000. Also think Ian Rush likealookie Eddie Gallagher had a trial with Chelsea c.1988.

[Hot Shot]

Some great info flying about this thread, it was only a couple of weeks ago Bates came up in conversation at work,I piped up about his connection with Thistle only for it to be followed by many questions about it, I didn't really have a clue and pieced together a very vague view on the matter, I don't think I got too much wrong but didn't really know what I was talking about.

 

Great thread

[jagaritis]

John McNaught arrived from Chelsea in 1987 for a nominal fee under Bates. Chelsea had signed him from Hamilton the season before for a reported £82,000. Also think Ian Rush likealookie Eddie Gallagher had a trial with Chelsea c.1988.

Bates indeed brought Derek Johnstone to Firhill,without the knowledge of the then team manager Bertie Auld,that is why Bertie walked out.Johnstone was then appointed as manager with John Haggert helping out.Bad times at Firhill at that period with the only highlights being Colin West and Billy Dodds.I remember Dodds scoring 4 against East Fife,and soon after being recalled to Stamford Bridge for first team duty.My memory is struggling but i am quite sure West scored two weeks in a row at Firhill in 3 each draws,one of the times against Clyde comeing in the last minute after being 3 down.

[Chris near Oxford]

I think the main focus of the dislike at the time was being a feeder club. Opposition fans taunting us with 'Chelsea Reserves' sounds very, very odd these days.

 

He didn't turn us around, but he was the only person prepared to pick up the pieces when Miller Reid sold the club. We were in a dire straits and Bates took a punt that he could use us to scout for Chelsea. He sold us when a better offer came through from Jim Donald, etc. I remember being very relieved at the time as we were going nowhere with Ken Bates. However I think in retrospect we were in danger of going to the wall if he hadn't come on board.

[kearny_jag]

Your previous heads up helped me find this article with Jim Oliver, it gives a little more detail. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20050918/ai_n15359437/

 

Reading this article really gets me all nostalgic about the Oliver years. This was the thistle I grew up with and things seemed so much more exciting in those days both on and off the pitch.

[McKennan]

Well, we paid dearly for our Chelsea links when Jeeves arrived on the scene, didn't we?

[Mad Mull Jag]

Thanks for the info, ordered it via Amazon. Bargain at £1.24. I'll keep my eyes open for a 2nd hand copy of Red & Yellow forever.

 

Ive got a spare copy , jsut found out i had 2 !!

 

It was going on ebay , but if you want it pm me

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Well, we paid dearly for our Chelsea links when Jeeves arrived on the scene, didn't we?

That's surely a bit blinkered. In return for every Jean Yves Anis in recent seasons that's been thru Chelsea's books we've had a Kevin McKinlay and an Andy Ross

 

[a f kincaid]

That's surely a bit blinkered. In return for every Jean Yves Anis in recent seasons that's been thru Chelsea's books we've had a Kevin McKinlay and an Andy Ross

 

 

Wasn't Bates the guy that wanted to install electrified fences at Chelsea?

 

Derek Johnstone was first listed in a programme as manager in August 1986 and I think I am correct in saying Ken Bates' representative on the Board was Barrie D Spiers (also variously listed as B A Spiers and B D Spiers). IIRC he was a businessman based in Jersey. He was first mentioned as a Director in the same programme. I rememember asking myself how many reserve games he would make on a Thursday night!

 

Johnstone was last listed as Manager in the programme in Feb 1987. In the programme dated 7 March 1987 the manager was listed as "ooooooooo"! Billy Lamont was first listed as the Manager in the programme on 25 April 1987. At that time Spiers was still on the Board. Spiers ceased to be listed as a Director in the programme dated 15 April 1987.

 

Bates had an editorial in the programme dated 11 April 1987 as follows:-

 

"There has been much speculation over my involvement with PTFC and so to put the record straight I welcome the opportunity of speaking directly to all Jags supporters today. Property developer I am not and challenge anybody to show otherwise. There are development possibilities at Firhill - British Waterways have already indicated interest, but PT want to be part of any redevelopment incorporating wide recreational facilities and any profit must be retained in the club for improving facilities for supporters and to enhance our capacity, seating and playing strengths.

 

I suscribed for shares in PT because the then existing shareholders were unwilling - or unable to take up their rights. The alternative was possible closure - the alleged local business men willing to be involved - well where are they? Empty vessels make the most noise. The same applies to empty pockets!

 

Enough of the past. Let me talk of the present and the future. PT is the club that everybody loves - even if they support another club. Glasgow can cetainly support a third Premier Divison outfit and we can be that club. However, talk will not get us there.

 

PT has withered over the years, and apart from a very fine ground, we are at a very low ebb. Nine months later I am far more aware of the problems that face us and I have a better idea how they should be tackled.

 

However, it is not down to any one man. We need a dynamic Board of Directors and this is already under review. A strong management team, good scouting, youth policies, and enthusiastic support - not just on match days but seven days a week to help raise £1/4 million a year that is needed to run a successful club. Finally, you need patience. Success never comes overnight.

 

Enjoy the game today and ask yourself what you are prepared to do - , no, not for the fellow sitting next to you! You must put your money - or if short of money, your effort - where your head is. Together we can make the Jags great. Ibrox here we come?"

 

Any of that sound familiar???

[Witch finder general]

Wasn't Bates the guy that wanted to install electrified fences at Chelsea?

 

Derek Johnstone was first listed in a programme as manager in August 1986 and I think I am correct in saying Ken Bates' representative on the Board was Barrie D Spiers (also variously listed as B A Spiers and B D Spiers). IIRC he was a businessman based in Jersey. He was first mentioned as a Director in the same programme. I rememember asking myself how many reserve games he would make on a Thursday night!

 

Johnstone was last listed as Manager in the programme in Feb 1987. In the programme dated 7 March 1987 the manager was listed as "ooooooooo"! Billy Lamont was first listed as the Manager in the programme on 25 April 1987. At that time Spiers was still on the Board. Spiers ceased to be listed as a Director in the programme dated 15 April 1987.

 

Bates had an editorial in the programme dated 11 April 1987 as follows:-

 

"There has been much speculation over my involvement with PTFC and so to put the record straight I welcome the opportunity of speaking directly to all Jags supporters today. Property developer I am not and challenge anybody to show otherwise. There are development possibilities at Firhill - British Waterways have already indicated interest, but PT want to be part of any redevelopment incorporating wide recreational facilities and any profit must be retained in the club for improving facilities for supporters and to enhance our capacity, seating and playing strengths.

 

I suscribed for shares in PT because the then existing shareholders were unwilling - or unable to take up their rights. The alternative was possible closure - the alleged local business men willing to be involved - well where are they? Empty vessels make the most noise. The same applies to empty pockets!

 

Enough of the past. Let me talk of the present and the future. PT is the club that everybody loves - even if they support another club. Glasgow can cetainly support a third Premier Divison outfit and we can be that club. However, talk will not get us there.

 

PT has withered over the years, and apart from a very fine ground, we are at a very low ebb. Nine months later I am far more aware of the problems that face us and I have a better idea how they should be tackled.

 

However, it is not down to any one man. We need a dynamic Board of Directors and this is already under review. A strong management team, good scouting, youth policies, and enthusiastic support - not just on match days but seven days a week to help raise £1/4 million a year that is needed to run a successful club. Finally, you need patience. Success never comes overnight.

 

Enjoy the game today and ask yourself what you are prepared to do - , no, not for the fellow sitting next to you! You must put your money - or if short of money, your effort - where your head is. Together we can make the Jags great. Ibrox here we come?"

 

Any of that sound familiar???

a f kincaid your post is golden. I'm digging into KB's past at Oldham, Wigan, Partick Thistle, Chelsea & Leeds because I believed KB is a 1 trick pony & the result is bad for investors / creditors or fans. The text you posted above demonstrates that KB trots out the same lines time after time.

 

Can you tell me which program that text above is from?

 

If you are willing to sell that program or scan the relevant page & get it to me I'd be more than happy to put my hand in my pocket or make a donation to a charity of your choice.

Apologies if the request above steps over the mark.

[Witch finder general]

Ive got a spare copy , jsut found out i had 2 !!

 

It was going on ebay , but if you want it pm me

PM sent.

[a f kincaid]

a f kincaid your post is golden. I'm digging into KB's past at Oldham, Wigan, Partick Thistle, Chelsea & Leeds because I believed KB is a 1 trick pony & the result is bad for investors / creditors or fans. The text you posted above demonstrates that KB trots out the same lines time after time.

 

Can you tell me which program that text above is from?

 

If you are willing to sell that program or scan the relevant page & get it to me I'd be more than happy to put my hand in my pocket or make a donation to a charity of your choice.

Apologies if the request above steps over the mark.

 

 

PT v Dunfermline 11 April 1987. Sorry, part of my treasured colleaction and no facilities to scan but perhaps someone else on here might help out.

[elevenone]

found one on ebay if anyones interested

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/League-86-7-Partick-THistle-v-Dunfermline-Athletic-Apr-/130366350861?pt=UK_Sports_Memorabilia_Football_Programmes_ET

[Witch finder general]

PT v Dunfermline 11 April 1987. Sorry, part of my treasured colleaction and no facilities to scan but perhaps someone else on here might help out.

Understand comletely, I keep my program collection at my brothers because I'm aware that if I have a serious run in with the Mrs she'll vent her anger on my collection.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to post the text from the program in question, exactly the sort of info I hoped would turn up in this thread. I'll add this program to the list of stuff I need to track down.

[Kapiti Jag]

Understand comletely, I keep my program collection at my brothers because I'm aware that if I have a serious run in with the Mrs she'll vent her anger on my collection.

Now that's just good ole Common Sense!

[sandbank boy]

If Ken Bates turned up now the Board would cut his hand off!

[lady-isobel-barnett]

If Ken Bates turned up now the Board would cut his hand off!

They'd cut both off to make him a two wrist attraction.

 

 

Where did I leave that coat?

[NZ Jag]

If Ken Bates turned up now the Board would cut his hand off!

 

If Ken Bates showed up now I'd cut his nuts off

[Barney Rubble]

I was about to mention Dodds and West. If he'd restricted his involvement to us getting good young players like them on loan then it might have been a good deal but making Johnstone manager was a disastrous decision, I can only think he imposed that on us to get rid of him from Chelsea. I may not be recalling correctly (sic) but I think he was appointed player manager but was of course too fat to play.

 

Derek Johnstone went back to Rangers from Chelsea in January 1985. He was freed at the end of 85-86 season as part of Graeme Souness' arrival at Ibrox as manager. It was then that he was appointed player-coach at Thistle.

[Mr Bunny]

Derek Johnstone went back to Rangers from Chelsea in January 1985. He was freed at the end of 85-86 season as part of Graeme Souness' arrival at Ibrox as manager. It was then that he was appointed player-coach at Thistle.

 

See you people with working memories!

 

It was very annoying though. It was a situation that could and should have worked for us but we needed a decent manager in place and didn't get that. I guess there were things going on behind the scenes and as other posts have suggested, Bates' wasn't ever intending to act in the club's best interest.

[angry gaz]

but I think he was appointed player manager but was of course too fat to play.

I remember him playing in midfield against Morton in a game that is in my top five all time worst Thistle performances that I have witnessed.

Think we lost 1-5 or 2-5 which flattered us.

"To fat to play" doesnt really describe him well enough.

[Witch finder general]

found one on ebay if anyones interested

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/League-86-7-Partick-THistle-v-Dunfermline-Athletic-Apr-/130366350861?pt=UK_Sports_Memorabilia_Football_Programmes_ET

Great spot elevenone, I got it for £1.20.

 

Once again thanks to all for your efforts.

[John Blutarsky]

half-decent wee pieceby ian plenderleith in when saturday comes about leeds and bates.