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Shuggie

Club Income Issues - A Braindump

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Saturday's game and that equaliser and its consequences for SPFL 8th place revenue has been preying on my mind, especially against the backdrop of a significant decrease in gate receipts this season.

 

Do we know (no guesses) why numbers are down? Do you know someone who has slipped away and why?

 

Has anything that YOU have done helped mitigate the drop in gates (so others might mimic your actions)?

 

Getting fans through the gates is the single most important factor (though the chicken and egg of team performance could be raised ... but we have done well this year .... )

 

What can be done?

--- Get hold of that lapsed supporter you know and get them back to Firhill

--- Get someone you know alone to the next game at Firhill

--- Focus on the younger groups especially as they age to become paying fans at the gates

--- Can't skip over the Nomads keen interest on Matchday experiences from afar!

 

---- what else?

 

and if this covers the gate receipts, where else would your ££££ make its way most effectively through to the Club's Bank Account?

Where is the best pence per pound from this list (others I have missed?)

What could be done to improve revenues ... where is THE PLACE to start?

--- Centenary Fund

--- TAG

--- Matchday sponsorship opportunities

--- Sponsored Kit

--- Match Programmes

--- Half-time draw

--- Pints

--- Pies

--- Thistle Shop

--- Use of Thistle Facilities

--- Club / Branch Events / Fundraising

--- Firhill Cup

--- Weir Academy revenues

--- Easyfunding / EasySearch

 

Have you got an idea that could help the Club?

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You cover lots of good points there but, in my opinion, the issue that the club has fallen down on over the last few seasons is communication. We have people on here talking about losses of varying figures but they don't know the facts but because they are talking about it others think that this must be the case and they start to get nervous which then spreads.

 

If he club would simply hold a Meet The Board evening which they did very succesfully a few years ago we could have an open discussion about these issues and what we need to do in partnership with each other. I have written several times to David Beattie and Ian Maxwell on this very issue and the response is always "good idea we will take it on board" but as you will be aware no such event has taken place. We have never even had a club organised Meet The Manager evening since Archie got the job. Given how highly the fans think of him plus how well he has done don't you think that if we had such an event and Archie made the call for more people to buy season tickets, etc it would be effective?

 

The situation at Dunfermline is a lot different to ours at the moment in terms of league position but look at the what their board have communicated with their fans:

 

http://www.dafc.co.u...atement&ID=8460

 

I know that you represented the Nomads at a meeting held before a home game recently regarding the Supporters Federation - has there been a follow up or is that taking place before the Killie game as following through on things is required as well as better communication.

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These are probably minimal things but I have been unable to buy 50/50 tickets or programmes in the North Stand at the last three home games. Now I can understand the proggies being sold out, but no excuse whatsoever surely for no 50/50 tickets being on sale. TAG, not that I am involved in it at the moment, appears to have been a good idea that has turned into a bit of a disaster. Perhaps supporters using the club facilities more often might bring in some revenue. I am going to jags fans special birthday party in the Aitken Suite in early June. Starts at 16.00, finishes at 22.00. Knowing the people that are going, I reckon the bar will make plenty that evening!

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These are probably minimal things but I have been unable to buy 50/50 tickets or programmes in the North Stand at the last three home games. Now I can understand the proggies being sold out, but no excuse whatsoever surely for no 50/50 tickets being on sale. TAG, not that I am involved in it at the moment, appears to have been a good idea that has turned into a bit of a disaster. Perhaps supporters using the club facilities more often might bring in some revenue. I am going to jags fans special birthday party in the Aitken Suite in early June. Starts at 16.00, finishes at 22.00. Knowing the people that are going, I reckon the bar will make plenty that evening!

 

Sorry to hear that you have been unable to buy a 50/50 ticket at those games. I know that we do have a seller in there so not sure if it is an issue with location/visibility or timing. As the sellers have to bring the tickets and cash around to get counted and everything sorted before they take their seat it could be that they have left before you have arrived if you were getting in just before kick off.

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Sorry to hear that you have been unable to buy a 50/50 ticket at those games. I know that we do have a seller in there so not sure if it is an issue with location/visibility or timing. As the sellers have to bring the tickets and cash around to get counted and everything sorted before they take their seat it could be that they have left before you have arrived if you were getting in just before kick off.

 

Yeah FT there is usually someone there selling proggies and 50/50s but the last three games when we got in there has been no one there. To be fair, the queues to get into the North have been pretty long and it's taken ages to get in, but the latest we have got in has been probably about two minutes before kick off and in one instance (Motherwell game) we were in about 10 minutes before the kick off

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They should never have increased the gate price this season. There was absolutely no reason to do so. They were obviously trying to cover the loss of the big away supports by charging our own PATG fans more. It's backfired big time and that for me is the main reason why the home crowds are down.

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They should never have increased the gate price this season. There was absolutely no reason to do so. They were obviously trying to cover the loss of the big away supports by charging our own PATG fans more. It's backfired big time and that for me is the main reason why the home crowds are down.

 

correct. also impacted on lower away supports too, regardless of who they are or whether they visited once or twice this season.

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Got to agree re the price increase. In the last 5 years the max wage increase I have had is 1% and most people are the same (unless you are an MP or a banker!!) yet the club in its infinite wisdom increased the price by 10%. Very stupid move in my opinion and one that surely won't be repeated next season. I know they have done it a couple of times and it might hit ST sales but I think they could try and encourage people by offering discounts for say, three game packages for £60.

Edited by Lindau

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The reason crowds are down is because last year everything was shiny and new. This year, we're now into the drudgery of four games against mediocre opposition.

 

Let's face it, supporters don't decide whether or not to go to a match because of a £2 ticket increase. If you're a Jags fan, you LOVE the Thistle. You go because you're desperate to see the one you love be successful. The problem is that there's just not that many of us...

 

I honestly believe the most effective way to increase crowds is by targeting the youth. Give them free entry. Incentivise them by allowing them to meet players. Giving them memberships and the like. Stirring in them the love we have, and making them an addict for life, like the rest of us.

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Got to agree that the price is a big factor. As someone who only now goes to a few games per season it has come to the stage where I view £22 as expensive. When you have kids there are often other demands on your income and you need to think long and hard about spending £22 on a game of football. Love my fitba and love the jags but can't really afford to watch them too often these days. Free entry for kids is great and does help so hope that policy will continue.

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The reason crowds are down is because last year everything was shiny and new. This year, we're now into the drudgery of four games against mediocre opposition.

 

Let's face it, supporters don't decide whether or not to go to a match because of a £2 ticket increase. If you're a Jags fan, you LOVE the Thistle. You go because you're desperate to see the one you love be successful. The problem is that there's just not that many of us...

 

I honestly believe the most effective way to increase crowds is by targeting the youth. Give them free entry. Incentivise them by allowing them to meet players. Giving them memberships and the like. Stirring in them the love we have, and making them an addict for life, like the rest of us.

Not everyone is a diehard though. Some people just enjoy going to the odd game. What is the tipping point for price if you keep increasing? £22, £24, £30? It's only another few quid afterall...

 

Setting the price at over £20 is quite significant and I would say it's a tipping point for a lot of folk who are maybe pondering what to do on a saturday.

Edited by ian_mac

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They need to add value to the season ticket to encourage people to buy one.

 

This year we got a discount on entry at united away, if the clubs in the spfl are serious they should all be offering deals to away fans. It encourages fans to go and rewards fans that go every week and may mean some people will take a ST even if they miss a couple of homes games.

 

Pay at the gate should be £20 max across the board at this level, anymore and you turn prople away. Yesterday 2 adults and 2 kids would be £64 at Firhill £44 massive difference if over 19 away games a year.

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Let's face it, supporters don't decide whether or not to go to a match because of a £2 ticket increase. If you're a Jags fan, you LOVE the Thistle. You go because you're desperate to see the one you love be successful. The problem is that there's just not that many of us...

 

 

Really !I

 

Ticket = £22

 

Bus Ticket for me = £5.75

 

Bus Ticket for the boy = £2

 

Programme = £3

 

Eat/Drink at the game = £9

 

Total = £41.75 (a bit more than £22)

 

and say you go twice in a month = more than we spend for a weeks shop at the local Lidl !!!!

 

:ph34r:

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Really !I

 

Ticket = £22

 

Bus Ticket for me = £5.75

 

Bus Ticket for the boy = £2

 

Programme = £3

 

Eat/Drink at the game = £9

 

Total = £41.75 (a bit more than £22)

 

and say you go twice in a month = more than we spend for a weeks shop at the local Lidl !!!!

 

:ph34r:

 

Exactly, you have to factor in other things like transport, grub, drink, programmes, 50/50s when they are available. As I pay my son in, a game at Firhill leaves me nearly £60 out of pocket. A helluva lot of dosh for 90 minutes of football.

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It might pain folk to admit it, but we haven't been great to watch for long periods of the season. I'd suggest that has had an effect on attendances, too.

 

Have to disagree - our home record is way better than last season and our goals scored column is also better. I think the issue, as discussed above, is down to pricing.

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Fully agree that the price increase has something to do with the attendance goind down, alongside obviously getting less of the big travelling supports.

 

I think we should probably have different prices for different games. Say we had Celtic, Aberdeen and maybe another game against a team who we generally have a decent crowd against as £22 as Category 1 games or whatever, and then the other matches being Category 2 games with a cheaper price? I know other clubs in the league do this so its definitely allowed. Would mean that some of the fans who baulk at paying £22 to watch us play St Johnstone or something and don't come would maybe be tempted as its cheaper and also the big clubs away fans would still travel in numbers but we could also maybe entice the smaller clubs to bring a few more too since its cheaper? I'm not sure how this would all work.

 

Also, agreements between the clubs to entice travelling supporters would be a very good step IMO, not just for us but for the entire league.

 

We should also, in the coming seasons, be looking at streaming all of our home games on the website for foreign fans on either a season long pass type arrangement or a pay-per-view deal. Not sure of the pricing but I know that Dundee do this, and I have to imagine numerous other clubs do as well.

 

One last final point about finances, am I correct in thinking that the League cup games gate reciepts are split 50/50? Because if that is indeed the case, then the money we got from the 6-0 at Celtic could go some of the way to make up any shortfall, as although obviously far from a sellout they still would have had a decent crowd at that game, and thus we could have pocketed a decent sum.

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How much influence does this forum have on attendances? Last 2 seasons it was almost all pretty positive, I think. This season there has been so much negativity spouted(perhaps by a very small band - but pretty incessant). Maybe that has put some people off.

 

The club really need to try to promote ST sales better as for the fan that is a one time a season decision, as opposed to 19 decisions taken by PATG fans. There should be an option to pay it over the course of the season without a significant extra fee - a small admin charge only. After all surely it is the certainty of getting the income that is more important than the timing.

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Fully agree that the price increase has something to do with the attendance goind down, alongside obviously getting less of the big travelling supports.

 

I think we should probably have different prices for different games. Say we had Celtic, Aberdeen and maybe another game against a team who we generally have a decent crowd against as £22 as Category 1 games or whatever, and then the other matches being Category 2 games with a cheaper price? I know other clubs in the league do this so its definitely allowed. Would mean that some of the fans who baulk at paying £22 to watch us play St Johnstone or something and don't come would maybe be tempted as its cheaper and also the big clubs away fans would still travel in numbers but we could also maybe entice the smaller clubs to bring a few more too since its cheaper? I'm not sure how this would all work.

 

Also, agreements between the clubs to entice travelling supporters would be a very good step IMO, not just for us but for the entire league.

 

We should also, in the coming seasons, be looking at streaming all of our home games on the website for foreign fans on either a season long pass type arrangement or a pay-per-view deal. Not sure of the pricing but I know that Dundee do this, and I have to imagine numerous other clubs do as well.

 

One last final point about finances, am I correct in thinking that the League cup games gate reciepts are split 50/50? Because if that is indeed the case, then the money we got from the 6-0 at Celtic could go some of the way to make up any shortfall, as although obviously far from a sellout they still would have had a decent crowd at that game, and thus we could have pocketed a decent sum.

 

Think we already have a different price for Celtic games. Pretty sure it was 25. Last season there was a discount for St J game, but don't think there was anything similar this season.

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It might pain folk to admit it, but we haven't been great to watch for long periods of the season. I'd suggest that has had an effect on attendances, too.

 

I have some sympathy with this view, to an extent.

 

I have no problem with performances this season. We were inconsistent but it's been a successful season. But it was painful at times. Late goals against, frustrating failures to capitalise on superiority, and sometimes pretty horrible performances too. Rarely in the last two seasons have you left Firhill feeling euphoric (a late win, a rousing comeback). We've had comfortable wins and heartbreak. The opposite wouldn't be more impressive or successful, but it might be more satisfying.

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Think we already have a different price for Celtic games. Pretty sure it was 25. Last season there was a discount for St J game, but don't think there was anything similar this season.

There were 2 different 3 game packages that included the Celtic game

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Have to disagree - our home record is way better than last season and our goals scored column is also better. I think the issue, as discussed above, is down to pricing.

 

I think youre misreading my post. I'm not talking about stats.

 

I'm talking about the quality of product, regardless of result.

 

Unless you think hoofball is attractive to watch, of course.

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Last season we only won 2 games at home and both of those came late in the season but we still averaged over 5,000 (that does include away support). This season we started by winning 4-0 against Ross County and playing great football, followed that up with a draw away to Dundee were we again played well and the next home match saw 3,500 in attendance. Unless those who did not turn up all had a vision which told them we would be poor and lose the game late on why did they not turn up because I don't think the "poor product" line works at that point.

 

We are all entitled to our opinions and unless the people who did come last season but not this one actually tell us the reasons why then we are left guessing to a degree.

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Last season we only won 2 games at home and both of those came late in the season but we still averaged over 5,000 (that does include away support). This season we started by winning 4-0 against Ross County and playing great football, followed that up with a draw away to Dundee were we again played well and the next home match saw 3,500 in attendance. Unless those who did not turn up all had a vision which told them we would be poor and lose the game late on why did they not turn up because I don't think the "poor product" line works at that point.

 

We are all entitled to our opinions and unless the people who did come last season but not this one actually tell us the reasons why then we are left guessing to a degree.

 

Ok, you don't think the quality of product on display has an effect on attendance figures.

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Ok, you don't think the quality of product on display has an effect on attendance figures.

 

I think it would have been a factor during the period when we were having a sticky spell but as the crowds were down right from the start of the season I don't think it was the main reason. For me it was mainly to do with pricing but as I said we would really need to find out from those who were not attending what their reasons were.

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