Blackpool Jags Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 It wasn't Thatcher that killed the mines, it was Scargill believing he was invincible, and killed the unions to boot. If it wasn't Thatcher who killed the mines, then who was it that drew up the list of pit closures which were leaked to the NUM and the media? And who was it that slashed the subsidy on domestically produced coal which made it dearer to produce than imported, inferior and unregulated South America coal? Was it the NUM or some esoteric force? The only moment worth savouring during that highly significant chapter in our history was the look on the face of arch-scab and heinous traitor, Roy Link, when he learned that Thatcher had reneged on her promises to him to keep the East Midlands pits open as a thank you for him breaking with NUM and setting up the repugnant UDM. There is no greater example of poetic justice I can think of than that wretch, Link, being done up the bahooky by his false prophet, Thatcher. Never in the timeline of British industrial relations has anyone deserved to be shafted (npi) than that dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 If it wasn't Thatcher who killed the mines, then who was it that drew up the list of pit closures which were leaked to the NUM and the media? And who was it that slashed the subsidy on domestically produced coal which made it dearer to produce than imported, inferior and unregulated South America coal? Was it the NUM or some esoteric force? The only moment worth savouring during that highly significant chapter in our history was the look on the face of arch-scab and heinous traitor, Roy Link, when he learned that Thatcher had reneged on her promises to him to keep the East Midlands pits open as a thank you for him breaking with NUM and setting up the repugnant UDM. There is no greater example of poetic justice I can think of than that wretch, Link, being done up the bahooky by his false prophet, Thatcher. Never in the timeline of British industrial relations has anyone deserved to be shafted (npi) than that dog. The Rippley report was created in 77 and leaked in 78, a full year before Thatcher was in power. The miners nearly striked in 81, but settled on a 9.3% (Yes nine point three) pay rise. Thatcher allowed the miners to work overtime and build up stock piles as she knew another strike was coming, she also converted power stations to oil. The miners then rejected a 5.2% pay rise, banned OT in 83, pit closures were then announced (due to them being non profitable) and the strike started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 No coal produced in Europe is - or certainly at that time was - profitable per se: its sustainability was based on the levels of subsidy from governments; British coal being no exception. The Tory govt removed the subsidy on British coal simply to bring about a self-fulfilling prophecy; nothing more, nothing less. All the same, it was the Thatcher government who implemented the closures with the attendant destruction of communities and lives which ensued; all too evident today. Such wanton ideological pursuit of class war is without parallel since, although there is growing awareness of the current incumbents hankering for a latter day miners' strike. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 No coal produced in Europe is - or certainly at that time was - profitable per se: its sustainability was based on the levels of subsidy from governments; British coal being no exception. The Tory govt removed the subsidy on British coal simply to bring about a self-fulfilling prophecy; nothing more, nothing less. All the same, it was the Thatcher government who implemented the closures with the attendant destruction of communities and lives which ensued; all too evident today. Such wanton ideological pursuit of class war is without parallel since, although there is growing awareness of the current incumbents hankering for a latter day miners' strike. "Class" is for the individual to establish and all to judge. Not for pseudo intellectuals and governments to define and for all to succumb. The hypocrisy of "the left", as Orwell forecast, "All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than others.". I wonder if there was a latter day miner's strike, in the absence of Mr. Scargill, if they would pursue a national ballot.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 "Class" is for the individual to establish and all to judge. What's that supposed to mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 No coal produced in Europe is - or certainly at that time was - profitable per se: its sustainability was based on the levels of subsidy from governments; British coal being no exception. The Tory govt removed the subsidy on British coal simply to bring about a self-fulfilling prophecy; nothing more, nothing less. All the same, it was the Thatcher government who implemented the closures with the attendant destruction of communities and lives which ensued; all too evident today. Such wanton ideological pursuit of class war is without parallel since, although there is growing awareness of the current incumbents hankering for a latter day miners' strike. Not to mention that subsidy isn't a dirty word when it comes to preserving farmers way of live. Only that would be the way of a landowner - but yeah no such thing as class or class loyalties apparently !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 ^^ Not to mention the employment subsidy where the government pays working tax credit, or whatever it's called, to top up employees' wages to a living wage where the employer doesn't. But then there's no such thing as class, apparently. And I should know: I'm a pseudo intellectual. So there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) ^^ Not to mention the employment subsidy where the government pays working tax credit, or whatever it's called, to top up employees' wages to a living wage where the employer doesn't. But then there's no such thing as class, apparently. And I should know: I'm a pseudo intellectual. So there. Says who? Edited June 29, 2015 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 What's that supposed to mean? What part are you struggling with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 the only way/reason a labour party did/would get in power At UK level you're probably right, sadly. The fact that there is no profound difference between the UK's two major parties makes for a very sterile version of democracy. Lets remember she took on a country decimated by Labour and the unions so tough decisions were needed. Britain turned around under her. Cameron took the UK on after Gordon brown sold our assets and put us back in massive debt, again tough decisions were needed. Scotland's councils are in a mess due to the Scottish Government (SNP) decision to freeze council tax for years, these councils still need to give pay rises, pay electricity (street lighting etc) which has risen year on year, this is why 1000's of council workers are losing jobs, not the Tories but the SNP The governments of Wilson and Callaghan were crap (as was Heath's too, to be fair) and yes, some trade unions behaved irresponsibly; but that doesn't justify decimating the industries they represented. Blackpool Jags has gone into it already, but that effect it has had on some communities was catastrophic. The UK is now a low wage, low productivity economy and that will cause more long term harm to the country than any flying picket. Cameron's economic plan has been criticised by many economists. There was maybe a case for austerity back in 2009, at the apex of the credit crunch, but it is harder to justify now that the economy is back on more of an even keel. I don't agree with the SNP's long-term freezing of CT, on the basis that depriving public services of funds rarely ends well (I wasn't aware of thousands of council staff being made redundant but the standard of street cleaning in Glasgow has varied between poor and atrocious in recent years). The shortfall in revenue, as I understand it, is bridged by payments from Holyrood. In any case, it is high time that a fairer method of local taxation was devised to replace the council tax. The Scottish Greens favour a land value tax and the SSP favour a kind of local income tax. Either sounds preferable to the current system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted June 29, 2015 Report Share Posted June 29, 2015 No coal produced in Europe is - or certainly at that time was - profitable per se: its sustainability was based on the levels of subsidy from governments; British coal being no exception. The Tory govt removed the subsidy on British coal simply to bring about a self-fulfilling prophecy; nothing more, nothing less. All the same, it was the Thatcher government who implemented the closures with the attendant destruction of communities and lives which ensued; all too evident today. Such wanton ideological pursuit of class war is without parallel since, although there is growing awareness of the current incumbents hankering for a latter day miners' strike. A government in that position has a choice between letting a non-profitable industry die and paying its redundant staff unemployment benefit or supporting it, thereby providing work for people, giving them spending power, a sense of self-worth and a tax code. Thatcher's government was in that position and they chose the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrD Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 What part are you struggling with? the bit i quoted lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 the bit i quoted lol ok ... "Class" is a concept primarily defined by politicians, sociologists, historians to aid discussion in their fields of study and used by others primarily in judgement of the lives of their peers. Many individuals may disagree with the parameters set in terms of, for example, people having the same social, economic, or educational status, or would debate the status of their personal social, economic, or educational status and therefore to which asserted "class" they qualify. Everyone may have an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin energy Posted June 30, 2015 Report Share Posted June 30, 2015 http://www.dailymail...yril-Smith.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31789827 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 http://www.dailymail...yril-Smith.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31789827 so now you believe the mail and the BBC. LOL and my previous answer covers those "Did she, and your Proof is? also even if she did was there proof to do anything about it. do you know that there is none in holyrood or your work place, if you suspect/know there is what have you done about it? Its aright coming with statements like your one above but without proof they are pointless and to be honest dangerous and in the witch hunt that follows innocent people get dragged in to it. For clarity, if there is proof that she was knowingly involved i would be just as disgusted as anyone. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted July 1, 2015 Report Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) http://www.express.c...e-beater-s-past or how about this guy... http://www.dailyreco...bed-teen-950312 Following the 2015 general election it was announced in June 2015 that Angus MacNeil would chair the Energy and Climate Change Select Committee at Westminster. His appointment was formally announced on 18 June 2015. Whataboutery aw that pish? --------------- Smith was evidently a bullying c*nt who abused his prominence during the uncertainty of Heath government and Lib Lab pact of the 70s to build evermore security for his obscene activities. In 1976 he even contacted the BBC in an attempt to dissuade them from investigating the private affairs of MPs. By the 80s he appears to have built a respectable reputation using a web of corruption and deception involving sufficient high ranking officials and departments that bringing him to justice was going to embarrass more than just the main target of complicated investigation. Prior to all of this though, it would seem, he was able to exploit the authority of his elected office to avert scrutiny from his evil deeds. Testimony of victims of his alleged abuse dating back to the 60s, when Smith was a Labour councillor and then Mayor of Rochdale, state reporting such criminal acts to the police, was met with reluctance to investigate or charge "a very important, powerful man". He received the honour of MBE in 1966. He was never prosecuted and was praised by leading high profile parliamentary figures who clearly did know of the allegations upon his death in 2010. Sir David Steel, the man who proposed Smith's Knighthood, admitted to the press in 2014 that on confronting Smith about allegations raised in 1979,"I asked Cyril Smith about it. I was half expecting him to say it was all wrong, and I would have been urging him to sue to save his reputation. To my surprise he said the report was correct." and "They had been investigated by the police, as Private Eye stated, and no action had been taken on them. So there was nothing more I could do." So far it appears all these posthumous revelations confirm is that Thatcher was aware of the allegations, investigations had taken place but that he had not been prosecuted and was unlikely to be. A prime minister ought to be able to rely on the integrity of the civil service. What is notable is that the warnings to Thatcher of possible danger to the integrity of the honours system have come from high members of the civil service. From the extracts quoted in the paper, it is arguable that they may have feared a future expose of their role in administering the convenience of previous administrations more than fearing an honour would bestowed on a paedophile or that he might still be committing these heinous crimes. Maybe a title change for the thread? F*@king Politicians ? ... F*@king Civil Service? Edited July 1, 2015 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Thatcher. A lovely woman who supported the racist apartheid regime of South Afirca and backed an illegal military coup in Chile to overthrow a democratically elected government. But that's ok because she was pals with someone's gran! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 the snp would never cosy up with terrorists by choice would they. http://www.derrysinnfein.ie/sinn-fein-and-snp-discuss-resistance-to-tory-cuts/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 6, 2015 Report Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) the snp would never cosy up with terrorists by choice would they. http://www.derrysinn...e-to-tory-cuts/ What an idiotic post; it's just too stupid and bigoted to merit a further response. Would you like me to post a photo of your Queen enjoying cosying up to "terrorists?" Ach, I'll do it anyway. And God forbid! She's wearing green! Your blue blood must be boiling. Thank God people like you are dying out. Edited July 7, 2015 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 What an idiotic post; it's just too stupid and bigoted to merit a further response. Would you like me to post a photo of your Queen enjoying costing up to "terrorists?" Ach, I'll do it anyway. And God forbid! She's wearing green! Your blue blood must be boiling. Thank God people like you are dying out. i said by choice and be careful who you call a bigot dafty and why would it bother me if she wore green , the queen and the rest of the royals did it because they had to, as i am sure Charley liked meeting the guy that killed his great-uncle and friend. the snp did it because they have pretty much always supported that terrorist group since they started. the only idiotic posts come from you when you cant see past the snps propaganda, i Know what the mps in westminster get up to(and that includes the snp ones) but i also know that it is no different in holyrood, you on the other hand seem to think that holyrood...or should i say the snp can do no wrong. you sir by what you post (on politics ) come across as a deluded, paranoid and having a massive chip on your shoulder so before you start calling anyone a bigot you may want to see some one for help yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 No, jaggybunnet; you are the deluded one who claims to believe that the Tories are the only party who should govern Scotland, and the London-based Tories at that; you are somehow paranoid about Scots being able to run their own affairs at least as competently as the numpties that have virtually bankrupted the so-called united kingdom, and you have a serious dose of the Scottish cringe, if not a reverse massive chip on your shoulder. You keep up your mantra of "Mon the Tories" while they consign everybody who cannot afford it to even greater financial and probably social difficulties. Scotland deserves better than to be controlled by the lying, corrupt, self-serving, anti-democratic, paedophile-ridden, elitist millionaires club that swans about in Westminster holding everybody who's not like them, and that includes you, in utter contempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 No, jaggybunnet; you are the deluded one who claims to believe that the Tories are the only party who should govern Scotland, and the London-based Tories at that; you are somehow paranoid about Scots being able to run their own affairs at least as competently as the numpties that have virtually bankrupted the so-called united kingdom, and you have a serious dose of the Scottish cringe, if not a reverse massive chip on your shoulder. You keep up your mantra of "Mon the Tories" while they consign everybody who cannot afford it to even greater financial and probably social difficulties. Scotland deserves better than to be controlled by the lying, corrupt, self-serving, anti-democratic, paedophile-ridden, elitist millionaires club that swans about in Westminster holding everybody who's not like them, and that includes you, in utter contempt. and right in there to prove my point, well done...nut job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted July 7, 2015 Report Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) and right in there to prove my point, well done...nut job You are pathetic. You cannot deny what I said, so all you can do is insult. Edited July 7, 2015 by Jaggernaut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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