jagfaelivi Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 There has been the same voice in the dressing room and the training pitch now for longer than any other side... It is no longer making much sense. We just CANNOT play in a different way under Archie. It's being proved week in week out. Two full backs run forward and eventually a half hearted ball is lobbed into the box either by them or Amoo. The opposing defence laugh at how easy it is and head it away to a mid field/ attack who run like f--k and embarrass our defence by doing something creative in the last third. OR we faff around the edge of their box and try to do something (very slowly) that is easily cleared. OR we get a free kick/corner and lob it in gently to make sure that their defence is able to clear it OR put it so near their goalie that it's a kepper. Are we totally incapable of playing any differently? The last few weeks in the JH stand where I sit there have been opposition scouts/ spies scribbling away for the likes of Hamilton and Dundee. What a waste of a resource!!! We play the same EVERY week and every team in the league knows it. Archie has done a great job for us, getting us up and keeping us up twice but everything has it's lifespan.... I honestly think we have the players to stay up but that new voice is needed and it needs to be a voice with some experience. Just look at what Mixu and McGhee are threatening to do with no hopers. Cue Uncle Jimmy Calderwood - or his ilk. HELP!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydebankJag Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Jimmy Calderwood! I hope to God that you are his agent, if not I despair for mankind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) We are relegation certs if Archie continues to repeat the failing system , formations and tactics he's using, Either Archie changes things , and I hope he can , or we go down in a whimper. Edited October 31, 2015 by angry gaz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 (edited) when leaving the ground today I overheard a guy say to his pal "any other manager would have been crucified by now". Just because of what he's done in the past should not make the manager immune from criticism. Nor should it mean that he's got a job for life. Edited October 31, 2015 by Big Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Archie isn't above criticism, but if jimmy calderwood gets the job I won't be back. An absolute dinosaur, and a horrible, horrible human being who has no place in modern society let alone a dressing room. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 We have 8 games between now and the end of the year,imo we should be looking to get at least 10pts from them.If we don't we will go down.If it wasn't for Archie I do not think we would've got promotion but as someone else said that should not guarantee him a job for life.I want us to play at as high a level as possible and to progress as a team.So if Archie cant keep us in the league he should be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbath Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Archies a dick but Calderwood is one excuse I would have for Archie NOT getting the bullet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Gekantawa Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 For what it's worth, and completely without sentiment, I believe our present manager is the best bet to get us out of danger in the short term. I also believe, if I am wrong about the above, that our present manager is ou best bet to keep us up even if we're bottom at Christmas or even later. I also believe, if I'm wrong about the above, that our present manager would be our best bet at getting us back in the Premiership- rather than emulating St Mirren. Just an opinion, based solely on my own evaluation on the present manager's achievements as a manager to date. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) For what it's worth, and completely without sentiment, I believe our present manager is the best bet to get us out of danger in the short term. I also believe, if I am wrong about the above, that our present manager is ou best bet to keep us up even if we're bottom at Christmas or even later. I also believe, if I'm wrong about the above, that our present manager would be our best bet at getting us back in the Premiership- rather than emulating St Mirren. Just an opinion, based solely on my own evaluation on the present manager's achievements as a manager to date. Thanks for your contribution, Archie! To be fair, Archie isn't really a club manager in the usual British sense, but a coach. The man controlling the purse-strings and deciding on who get signed or not is Ian Maxwell, and he has dug himself in so that it would be very difficult to shift him. If we needed to release Archie, then the Board would have to have the cojones to get rid of their General Manager, too - which would probably necessitate the Board taking over executive functions for a while, until a new management team had found its feet. It may be that the Board doesn't feel able to do that. Edited November 1, 2015 by Fearchar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Thanks for your contribution, Archie! To be fair, Archie isn't really a club manager in the usual British sense, but a coach. The man controlling the purse-strings and deciding on who get signed or not is Ian Maxwell, and he has dug himself in so that it would be very difficult to shift him. If we needed to release Archie, then the Board would have to have the cojones to get rid of their General Manager, too - which would probably necessitate the Board taking over executive functions for a while, until a new management team had found its feet. It may be that the Board doesn't feel able to do that. Interesting point, effectively means Archie can only work with the tools Maxi provides him, as can any other manager coming in, so changing the manager would not sort any issues we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 Tend to disagree. The new Motherwell and Dundee Utd managers both got results yesterday, both working with the tools they have but changing the formation, tinkering with the line up and tinkering with the player positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juan Kerr Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 St Mirren. Danny Lennon Be careful what you wish for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I would rather keep Archie and be relegated than stay up with Calderwood. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Archie isn't above criticism, but if jimmy calderwood gets the job I won't be back. An absolute dinosaur, and a horrible, horrible human being who has no place in modern society let alone a dressing room. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I would rather keep Archie and be relegated than stay up with Calderwood. I'm no fan of Calderwood & doubt if he'll manage in Scotland again, but why on earth would you want to relegated??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I'm no fan of Calderwood & doubt if he'll manage in Scotland again, but why on earth would you want to relegated??? I don't think he said he wanted Thistle to be relegated. He offered his choice on an either/or scenario. And in all honesty, I'd probably make the same choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) So let's say we get Calderwood in, we sack Arhie. Calderwood is on decent money and will only take the job if there is money available for him to overhaul the team in January. He also wants money spent on his own backroom staff. We push the boat out, spend money we don't really have and then possibly go down anyway, or else we stay up by a bawhair and Jmmy wants more money in the summer to really put his stamp on the team. What happens if we are rock bottom without a win after the first quarter of next season? Calderwood sacked, more money spent paying him off, certain relegation and possibly administration or worse. Edited November 2, 2015 by ian_mac 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 I don't think he said he wanted Thistle to be relegated. He offered his choice on an either/or scenario. And in all honesty, I'd probably make the same choice. He said 'I would rather keep Archie and be relegated than stay up with Calderwood.' Would you rather be relegated as well? strange choice knowing what has happened in the past when we have been relegated from the top division Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angry gaz Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Relegation has never been good for Thistle and generally spells a decade of watching the pishiest most awful football you can imagine. M y preferred option is for Archie to turn things around and keep us up but for that to happen he is going to have to change the fundamentals of what he doing at the moment anD he is beginning to run out of time to do so.. Edited November 2, 2015 by angry gaz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 He said 'I would rather keep Archie and be relegated than stay up with Calderwood.' Would you rather be relegated as well? strange choice knowing what has happened in the past when we have been relegated from the top division I want us to stay up with Archie, but.... I'd rather be relegated with Archie, than stay up with Calderwood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) One difference this time is if we were relegated we'd still have a youth policy. I'm making the reasonable presumption that as the Weirthistle Academy is ringfenced the status of the first team is immaterial. Once again tho' the real bugbear for me at least is the sizes of the leagues and repetitiveness of fixtures. If the 2nd tier was comprised of 16-18 teams playing each other twice I doubt I'd miss the top league that much. Dropping into a bigger league would also bring the added advantage of relative security, which in turn would offer the opportunity of fielding considerably more younger players. Anyway that's not likely to happen and if relegation means double visits to Falkirk, Almondvale, Dumbarton, Cappielow and the likes then it doesn't sound too appealing. Edited November 2, 2015 by lady-isobel-barnett 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westend Jag Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 One difference this time is if we were relegated we'd still have a youth policy. I'm making the reasonable presumption that as the Weirthistle Academy is ringfenced the status of the first team is immaterial. Once again tho' the real bugbear for me at least is the sizes of the leagues and repetitiveness of fixtures. If the 2nd tier was comprised of 16-18 teams playing each other twice I doubt I'd miss the top league that much. Dropping into a bigger league would also bring the added advantage of relative security, which in turn would offer the opportunity of fielding considerably more younger players. Anyway that's not likely to happen and if relegation means double visits to Falkirk, Almondvale, Dumbarton, Cappielow and the likes then it doesn't sound too appealing. the league set up is a total shambles and does zilch for our games development...top league of 16-18, 2nd tier of 16-18 then support with regional pyramids a la German structure...its all great having a youth set up but if you can't then move them along into the next stage without fear of relegation etc then young players have less of a chance of making it...but we never learn in this country Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 the league set up is a total shambles and does zilch for our games development...top league of 16-18, 2nd tier of 16-18 then support with regional pyramids a la German structure...its all great having a youth set up but if you can't then move them along into the next stage without fear of relegation etc then young players have less of a chance of making it...but we never learn in this country Do you have any evidence of this? This will take the thread completely off topic and this definitely isn't the place for this debate, but the problems with youth development are far more complex than "the fear of relegation." As it is, my own view is that they're would undoubtedly be a myriad of issues with a larger top flight and the current system is probably fit for purpose at this moment in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 If you think that the current set up is fit for purpose then you are in a distinct minority with that view. Every survey that's done comes back with the same results - fans want bigger leagues playing each team twice. How anyone can say it's fit for purpose is beyond me. The standard of players we attract to the league has never been lower, attendances have never been lower, and the income from TV coverage is dwindling all the time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westend Jag Posted November 2, 2015 Report Share Posted November 2, 2015 Do you have any evidence of this? This will take the thread completely off topic and this definitely isn't the place for this debate, but the problems with youth development are far more complex than "the fear of relegation." As it is, my own view is that they're would undoubtedly be a myriad of issues with a larger top flight and the current system is probably fit for purpose at this moment in time. Agreed it is clearly more complex than that, point I am making is it doesn't help the next stage of a younger players development if the focus is "survival" each season as they either don't feature at the expense of more "experienced" pros or make costly mistakes which hammers confidence which in some cases they don't recover from. I'd point to countries across Europe with a far better record of producing talent as evidence that the league structure is critical (regardless of population size)...along with a host of other things that obviously need to be taken in the round...mentality, attitude, ambition, diet, training, coaching/technical development hours, style of play, mentoring, targeted investment, youth / national culture, climate when we play etc etc.. What issues would be caused by a larger top flight & restructure beneath that you see that would prevent it from being sensible along with other big changes? - two of our supposed top teams played yesterday in the second tier, (so there's 14) and frankly outwit the big 4-5 teams in this country there isn't really a sustainable difference between everyone else at the moment..it can't be about quality. Our game is amateurish top to bottom and the league structure is a key component to that - it is what drives the product...I'd argue it isn't fit for purpose as you put it because there's a lot of empty seats, broadcasting is poor, our national team is poor, commercial appetite to support it is also minimal and we aren't producing top quality technical footballers...yet each time we fail to qualify as a nation for a tournament we naval gaze for a bit and then don't take a holistic approach to sort it. Agreed, perhaps off topic but shoving Jimmy Calderwood forward as someone who could help us stay up kind of also makes my point in a managerial sense too. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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