javeajag Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I was surprised that Seabourne hasn't been offered a new deal given our improved defensive performance this season and Frans is the same Anybody know anything ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnyjag Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 He is one player that even Archie has not mentioned in any of his various interviews. I would assume that he is in negotiation with the club, as he has been playing very well since we started our good run in October. I also think that maybe Archie has other targets for CB and is maybe waiting to see what happens, either way I know Archie will deliver what he thinks is best for the club. I for one hope Seabourne signs up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 He's saying that he wants to stay. http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/partick_thistle/14451244.Seaborne_out_to_prove_he_deserves_new_deal_at_Thistle/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I wouldn't be shedding any tears if he left. I just don't see why some folk think he's great. Poor distribution, always grappling with people in the box, poor positioning at times, too many bombscare moments for me. There must be better out there. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I wouldn't be shedding any tears if he left. I just don't see why some folk think he's great. Poor distribution, always grappling with people in the box, poor positioning at times, too many bombscare moments for me. There must be better out there. Fourth best defensive record in the league suggests that he and the others have been doing quite well. "Must be better" is easy to say. Finding them and persuading them to sign up is quite a different matter. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Maybe doing better as a unit, but individually poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG1970 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 But he is part of that unit so he deserves some of the credit.... I agree his distribution isn't the best but in several games this season he has put the opposition CF in his back pocket, particularly strong and commanding with headers. IF there is someone else out there who is better, available, wants to come to us, and in budget, then great. But that's a big ask especially when we are not getting the level of support required to boost the budget. Personally I would be happy with Dan here next season 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 But he is part of that unit so he deserves some of the credit.... That's the tie breaker for me. Also I strongly suspect he's been a good influence off the field. I suppose any partnership involving Frans/Lindsay/Seaborne is vulnerable to pace but the only reason to let Seaborne go is if Archie has a pacier centreback coming in and he's another left sided player. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I'm very much on the fence about keeping Seaborne. He won't come cheap and I don't know about anyone else but I detected a slight "come and get me" undertone to the Evening Times article - "...it's a place I'd like to stay if something comes up". I would be keen to have a look about before committing to a new deal for Seaborne. And he strikes me as the sort who wouldn't be sticking about for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Fourth best defensive record in the league suggests that he and the others have been doing quite well. "Must be better" is easy to say. Finding them and persuading them to sign up is quite a different matter. Other it suggests the strikers they are up against are no great shakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Other it suggests the strikers they are up against are no great shakes. Don't really see what the quality of strikers in the league has to do with the relative performance of the defences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Don't really see what the quality of strikers in the league has to do with the relative performance of the defences. Are you being serious? You don't see how the quality of the opposition strikers might impact our defensive record? Let me put it this way. If the quality of strikers was better. For example Boyd & McDonald in their prime... do you think we would have a similar defensive record? My point is our defensive record flatters to deceive, as not 9nly are they up against 1 striker instead of 2, the majority of the time, but that loan striker isn't very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fawlty Towers Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Are you being serious? You don't see how the quality of the opposition strikers might impact our defensive record? Let me put it this way. If the quality of strikers was better. For example Boyd & McDonald in their prime... do you think we would have a similar defensive record? My point is our defensive record flatters to deceive, as not 9nly are they up against 1 striker instead of 2, the majority of the time, but that loan striker isn't very good. But these same strikers also play against the other teams in the league and we concede fewer than those teams so, to me, that shows our defence is better than theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancipital Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 If that's the case, how bad must our forwards be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter of '63 Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 One of the first things I noticed in our first season back in the top League was not that the opposition had accomplished defenders but that they were very big units. We were able to zip quick passes round them but we lost a host of goals when these big lumps of wood lumbered upfield for corners and free kicks. We now have our own big units in Seabourne, Frans & Lindsay so we don't concede too often to headers from set-pieces but they all look vulnerable to quick or skillful players who run at them. Our goals against record is remarkably good though a lot of the credit might be due to Cerny & Osman. Seabourne has been a decent enough defender but he does back off in Grant Murray style and he has an uncanny knack of picking out the opposition from headed clearances. If I thought that we would get good defenders in who were better on the ball, I wouldn't be that disappointed if Seabourne or Frans moved on...but I do remember being encouraged when Dowie was not offered a new contract as I thought there would be an upgrade only to discover the replacement was big Gabriel Piccolo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I'm very much on the fence about keeping Seaborne. He won't come cheap and I don't know about anyone else but I detected a slight "come and get me" undertone to the Evening Times article - "...it's a place I'd like to stay if something comes up". I would be keen to have a look about before committing to a new deal for Seaborne. And he strikes me as the sort who wouldn't be sticking about for that. I read it the other way. He would stay if an offer was made ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SussexJag Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Most of us have played the game, me as a centre half. If the defence is 4th best in the league despite costing next to nothing then that is some achievement. The reason defences get good is commitment to routine, trust, and unity - it just happens that way. The first one is more important for defenders, the others are common to the whole team. So if Seabourne has played lots of games, then he's part of that. The centre half pairing is the key building blick. Don't get to the games but goals against is surely the only indicator that matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 But these same strikers also play against the other teams in the league and we concede fewer than those teams so, to me, that shows our defence is better than theirs. Not disagreeing with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Most of us have played the game, me as a centre half. If the defence is 4th best in the league despite costing next to nothing then that is some achievement. The reason defences get good is commitment to routine, trust, and unity - it just happens that way. The first one is more important for defenders, the others are common to the whole team. So if Seabourne has played lots of games, then he's part of that. The centre half pairing is the key building blick. Don't get to the games but goals against is surely the only indicator that matters. Not the only indicator IMO. The manner in how the goals are lost is also relevant. And that's my concern about him, just as others have mentioned. Edited April 26, 2016 by Big Col Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Not disagreeing with that. Well that's all I was saying. Because I was talking about the performance of our defence relative to that of other teams. As were others before me. And yes. I was being serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I'd rather have a defence that loses fewer goals in a bad manner than more goals in a less bad manner. Seaborne's been decent. I'd give him another contract if the terms were reasonable. Distribution is only as much of an issue as it is because our midfield don't offer an out-ball often enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Well that's all I was saying. Because I was talking about the performance of our defence relative to that of other teams. As were others before me. And yes. I was being serious. And I wasn't talking about that, I was offering a differing opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 And I wasn't talking about that, I was offering a differing opinion. Apologies, this is incredibly pedantic. .. But your original response did actually respond to what the "Fourth best defensive record in the league suggests". Which is a measure that is in comparison to other teams' performances and therefore not significantly affected by the quality of opposition strikers. Having said that, it is your absolute right to mean whatever you intend to mean, so I am now willing to shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sons of Somner Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 I think Seabiscuit and the rest of the defense has done very well this season. I hope we retain them all for next season. Well done big man, his experience and influence is there to see. At our level we can't expect a teamful of players who excel at everything. I would much rather have a collective unit playing well together than one individual who we over rely on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 You could see the influence Seaborne has with him out the team v Dundee - no leader at the back. Our defensive record speaks for itself and Seaborne is a big part of that. I hope we can get him signed up with Osman so Archie can concentrate on getting more goals into the team. That is our weakness. If we can get both of the above signed up we should be stronger next year as the defence has a years’ experience of playing together. Lindsey should improve further as he gains more experience. Not saying Seaborne is not replaceable but I consider him to be a player we should sign for next season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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