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Dons In Luxembourg


jagfaelivi
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Yup? 1-0 to the Luxembourg part-timers. Just WHERE is Scottish football going? We keep kidding ourselves that we are okay and every result seems to tell us the opposite.

 

Why have Iceland, Wales, Denmark and even Luxembourg improved dramatically in my lifetime and we have gone backwards? There must be some reason for it.

 

Dire stuff!

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We should face it.

 

We have one of the worst leagues in Europe. And one of the worst international teams in Europe.

 

Aberdeen's result is pitiful but comes as no surprise. Surely Thistle can take them on with some confidence now instead of lying down like spring lambs.

 

Scottish football is rotten to the core and nobody does anything about it.

 

Start again like the Welsh. Get rid of the dead wood who have presided over failure after failure. Brown, Hutton,Whitaker, the Fletchers,Naismith,Morrison. The list goes on and on.

 

Similarly the deadbeats that run Scottish football should have been run out of town years ago like platini and blatter.

 

And it's nothing to do with the Tories or the Nationalists or the Socialists so let's keep politics out of this forum.

 

Anyway, I am looking forward to the season and Scotland strolling through the group, Jags winning the Cup and Clyde coming up from amongst the dead men. Or perhaps not!

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I don't think it's as simple as starting again like the Welsh. They have one of the top players in the world playing for them, and a very good international class player in Ramsay (who they missed big time last night). We have nobody near that type of player, if we did we would be doing a lot better. I agree with getting rid of some deadwood though

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We should face it.

 

We have one of the worst leagues in Europe. And one of the worst international teams in Europe.

 

Aberdeen's result is pitiful but comes as no surprise. Surely Thistle can take them on with some confidence now instead of lying down like spring lambs.

 

Scottish football is rotten to the core and nobody does anything about it.

 

Start again like the Welsh. Get rid of the dead wood who have presided over failure after failure. Brown, Hutton,Whitaker, the Fletchers,Naismith,Morrison. The list goes on and on.

 

Similarly the deadbeats that run Scottish football should have been run out of town years ago like platini and blatter.

 

And it's nothing to do with the Tories or the Nationalists or the Socialists so let's keep politics out of this forum.

 

Anyway, I am looking forward to the season and Scotland strolling through the group, Jags winning the Cup and Clyde coming up from amongst the dead men. Or perhaps not!

 

Please name all of the league systems in Europe which you think are superior to ours to back up this astounding claim.

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Sure. Bad result - but they still won the tie.

Exactly, time to come back in off the ledge. Given Scotland's abominable ranking every win however shitty even against weak opposition is a small step back up the ranking ladder and towards potentially less difficult draws for the national team in tournament qualification. Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step and all that.
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I don't think Weebaw1 is that far from the mark with his 2 claims to be honest. The evidence speaks for itself.

 

Every team in our top league is full-time, apparently "professional". Can anyone name me a league in Europe with all full time teams that consistently perform worse than ours do in European competition? Our co-efficient is that bad that our teams have to start their European campaigns in June. They only ever seem to come up against part time teams at that stage. Are there any other full time leagues who's teams have to start that early? If not, this would suggest that the original claim is true. I don't have an answer either way but would be interested to find out.

 

The 2nd point about the national team - again the evidence would suggest that the original poster is correct. For our population size and given the fact that we have a full time league set-up, we are one of the worst teams. We haven't qualified for a major tournament in 18 years. We couldn't even qualify for an expanded 24 team Euros this year. In fact, we couldn't even make the play-offs for it as we finished 4th in a group of 6. So even if the Euros had been expanded to 32 teams this year - WE STILL WOULD NOT HAVE QUALIFIED.

 

The national team is an absolute embarrassment and has been for some time.

 

So I would say, given the evidence provided, that Weebaw1 is absolutely spot on with their observations about our domestic league and national team.

Edited by ian_mac
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I don't think Weebaw1 is that far from the mark with his 2 claims to be honest. The evidence speaks for itself.

 

Every team in our top league is full-time, apparently "professional". Can anyone name me a league in Europe with all full time teams that consistently perform worse than ours do in European competition? Our co-efficient is that bad that our teams have to start their European campaigns in June. They only ever seem to come up against part time teams at that stage. Are there any other full time leagues who's teams have to start that early? If not, this would suggest that the original claim is true. I don't have an answer either way but would be interested to find out.

 

The 2nd point about the national team - again the evidence would suggest that the original poster is correct. For our population size and given the fact that we have a full time league set-up, we are one of the worst teams. We haven't qualified for a major tournament in 18 years. We couldn't even qualify for an expanded 24 team Euros this year. In fact, we couldn't even make the play-offs for it as we finished 4th in a group of 6. So even if the Euros had been expanded to 32 teams this year - WE STILL WOULD NOT HAVE QUALIFIED.

 

The national team is an absolute embarrassment and has been for some time.

 

So I would say, given the evidence provided, that Weebaw1 is absolutely spot on with their observations about our domestic league and national team.

According to UEFA's coefficients we are 23rd out of 54 so the evidence says we are one of better leagues and for the size of our country we probably over achieve. The part that can't be argued is that we have become really poor at developing our own talent and considering how wealthy our league and clubs are that is indeed embarrassing.

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According to UEFA's coefficients we are 23rd out of 54 so the evidence says we are one of better leagues and for the size of our country we probably over achieve. The part that can't be argued is that we have become really poor at developing our own talent and considering how wealthy our league and clubs are that is indeed embarrassing.

According to UEFA's coefficients we are 23rd out of 54 so the evidence says we are one of better leagues and for the size of our country we probably over achieve. The part that can't be argued is that we have become really poor at developing our own talent and considering how wealthy our league and clubs are that is indeed embarrassing.

Are our clubs and league wealthy?

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OK please clarify what other countries of similar size you are referring to. Do these nations have fully professional top leagues?

 

We most certainly do not over achieve at European level and haven't done so for decades.

Edited by ian_mac
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Compared to other countries of our size yes. If you compare it to England, Germany and Spain, no. But why would you compare us to countries with 10 times our population.

OK please clarify what other countries of similar size you are referring to. Do these nations have fully professional top leagues?

 

We most certainly do not over achieve at European level and haven't done so for decades.

I think you also need to take into account government funding for sports.

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OK please clarify what other countries of similar size you are referring to. Do these nations have fully professional top leagues?

 

We most certainly do not over achieve at European level and haven't done so for decades.

Countries of a similar size as Scotland (population not area) according to wiki Scotland comes 25th in population table. We are currently 23rd in UEFA Coefficients. In the last single decade we have never been lower than 25th but have been as high as 10th. To me that is over achieving.

In the UEFA rankings we are between Poland UEFA 22nd (pop.38m) and Azerbaijan UEFA 24th (pop 9.6m) and in the population rankings we are between Slovakia UEFA ranked 32 and Norway UEFA ranked 20.

I'll repeat that I think our clubs are failing to develop talent. That has already ****** up the National team and failing to bring on young talent and over spending on imports sent our biggest club to the wall.

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The most annoying thing to me is international football is imo far more interesting a brand of football these days than club football. The latter is more or less dependent on financial clout. I'll use Leicester's virtually unique success as an exception to the rule that proves the point. There was never anything remotely like the same shock and surprise when Derby Co, Forrest or, going back further, Ipswich won the old English Div One. I can probably name maybe at least six of the eight teams that'll contest the Champions League quarter finals this season coming. Predictability based almost entirely on relative wealth.

 

International football at least throws up many a shock result and is never dependent on riches alone. So the very fact we as a nation are struggling at a time when we really need to produce the goods is a great disappointment. Unlike club football we've nobody but ourselves to blame.

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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"One of the Worst in Europe" and "one of the worst when you consider the size of the country and professional status and all sorts of other things" are entirely different arguments.

 

We're obviously not one of the worst in Europe in absolute terms.

 

And in terms of another full time league who's teams do worse than ours, going by the UEFA coefficients there's a few... Serbia, Sweden, Norway... I'm not sure if the Slovak system is all full time but I'd think it is and they perform worse than we do.

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Previous poster is an apologist for extreme mediocrity.

 

I don't consider Luxemburg to be a proper league. We have for years outperformed these countries he mentioned.

 

May I remind him of the teams that have beaten all-conquering Celtic in the last few years? Dud teams. I can't even be bothered looking them up. Just recall being disgusted but not surprised.

 

He should be looking at positive ways to improve our lowly standing instead of accepting the inevitability of defeat. Hearts beat a team from Estonia! Whoopy doo! Wait till Lichtenstein get hold of our teams.

 

The Weir Academy is a magnificent gesture and gets kids of all standards away from indoor pursuits. Jags will benefit from some great talent as long as it continues and we can retain the best coaches. But the whole of Scotland needs initiatives like this whether funded privately or centrally. The Scottish government must wake up and show initiative here.

 

Something has to be done now! Because Wales who play rugby have 6 or 7 players in the premiership and we have virtually none. Thistles best players from previous years play in the 3rd and 4th divisions or whatever they are now called.

 

Don't accept mediocrity, man.

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Previous poster is an apologist for extreme mediocrity.

 

I don't consider Luxemburg to be a proper league. We have for years outperformed these countries he mentioned.

 

May I remind him of the teams that have beaten all-conquering Celtic in the last few years? Dud teams. I can't even be bothered looking them up. Just recall being disgusted but not surprised.

 

He should be looking at positive ways to improve our lowly standing instead of accepting the inevitability of defeat. Hearts beat a team from Estonia! Whoopy doo! Wait till Lichtenstein get hold of our teams.

 

The Weir Academy is a magnificent gesture and gets kids of all standards away from indoor pursuits. Jags will benefit from some great talent as long as it continues and we can retain the best coaches. But the whole of Scotland needs initiatives like this whether funded privately or centrally. The Scottish government must wake up and show initiative here.

 

Something has to be done now! Because Wales who play rugby have 6 or 7 players in the premiership and we have virtually none. Thistles best players from previous years play in the 3rd and 4th divisions or whatever they are now called.

 

Don't accept mediocrity, man.

 

Can't really disagree with much of that but I really think you should separate our club football from our international side.

 

If by some incredible freak of nature Celtic (or any other Scottish club for that matter) were to win the Champions League it would still have virtually no bearing on how crap the international team is. The club in question would be unlikely to contain more than two Scottish born players. Besides the first thing the club would do with its new found riches would be to sign more foreign players to the detriment of our international team.

 

You just need to look south of the border, where there has been a fair amount of Champions League success over the years, to see an international side that has failed miserably.

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Previous poster is an apologist for extreme mediocrity.

 

I don't consider Luxemburg to be a proper league. We have for years outperformed these countries he mentioned.

 

May I remind him of the teams that have beaten all-conquering Celtic in the last few years? Dud teams. I can't even be bothered looking them up. Just recall being disgusted but not surprised.

 

He should be looking at positive ways to improve our lowly standing instead of accepting the inevitability of defeat. Hearts beat a team from Estonia! Whoopy doo! Wait till Lichtenstein get hold of our teams.

 

The Weir Academy is a magnificent gesture and gets kids of all standards away from indoor pursuits. Jags will benefit from some great talent as long as it continues and we can retain the best coaches. But the whole of Scotland needs initiatives like this whether funded privately or centrally. The Scottish government must wake up and show initiative here.

 

Something has to be done now! Because Wales who play rugby have 6 or 7 players in the premiership and we have virtually none. Thistles best players from previous years play in the 3rd and 4th divisions or whatever they are now called.

 

Don't accept mediocrity, man.

 

Right, why do you not consider Luxembourg a proper league? What exactly constitutes a proper league?

 

May I remind you of the teams that Scottish representatives in Europe have defeated in recent years. Rosenborg, Groningen, Rijeka.

 

Football is more popular in Wales than rugby is, and besides, no player in the Wales squad has ever played in the Welsh league system. And Scotland will have about 14 or 15 premier league players this coming season, I don't know how that compares with Wales but it's not bad.

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