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Scotland's Game


angry gaz
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Everything that is wrong with Scottish football in one program. No acceptance of blame from the same media hacks. Fans still treated badly, standards falling year on year. Luckily we support a club swimming against the tide.

 

I look forward to Roger Mitchells admission that he crucified clubs like ours to ride on the likes of Murray's coat tails. Or Chic Young admitted his culpability in the promotion of the Gretna farce.

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I enjoyed it. I'm 22, so a lot of the stuff happened before I was either born or old enough to appreciate what was going on.

 

Quite enjoyed the Souness and Murray stuff tbh since we all know what happened with that.

 

The bits about the Edinburgh clubs and the Dundee clubs merging were interesting too.

 

And that clip of the Rangers dressing room singing the "party tunes" highlighting once again how despicable that club are.

Edited by oneteaminglasgow
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I enjoyed it. I'm 22, so a lot of the stuff happened before I was either born or old enough to appreciate what was going on.

 

I think a lot of folk under a certain age will have appreciated the programme for its historical input. I just hope they don't take the opinionated guff as gospel. And talking of gospel was Pastor Jack Glass still about in those days? I did see the tedious "academic" Tom Devine was given air time.

 

There's something not quite right about BBC Scotland airing a programme about football past when they're incapable of reporting football present to any degree of competence. Maybe in another 20-30 years they'll be reflecting on the goal scoring exploits of Doohlan and how Duke Gekantawa was named MotM at an away game at Alloa.

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I liked it. Interesting information on Dundee/Dundee Utd and Hearts/Hibs mergers and Hibs receivership due to a restaurant chain! Ignoring culture it makes sense if the teams were to merge. Logically I don't think that will happen. The Old Firm will dominate and overall our league will decline in European standing. The Edinburgh derby looked rough. Thank goodness for all seater stadia. The end of the programme with the usual sectarian madness is depressing but unfortunately true.

 

Fergus McCann is someone who I have a lot of respect for. 5 year plan and total success. He took all on and won. Left the madness with some cash in his pocket. Took down Jim Farry. Won every battle.

 

I did find it lazy when they talk about money as if it is some kind of evil Tory invention. Souness playing for money. That's part of normal life. People have more money now than in the past = holidays, eating out, shopping. I could never criticise a player for leaving for more money. I'd do the same if was offered more money in my job. As soon as a club has extra cash it will spend it, the fans will crow and demand success. Look at Celtic wetting themselves over £20 million in Champions League. We'd do the same if we were in the same position.

 

The fawning over David Murray and total failure of the media to investigate and hold anyone to account is a total embarrassment to any journalists who worked then. They shouldn't be allowed to still work as they totally failed.

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I didn't watch it as I saw a trailer that featured Messrs. MacPherson and Young and I knew it would be the same old, same old with a nice homage to Souness and the h*ns thrown in for extra annoyance. Might watch it on iPlayer to see the goals though!

 

I don't want to spoil it for those still to watch on i player etc but Tony Watt once scored for Celtic against Barcelona.

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In my opinion, this programme has been pretty good so far. Pointing out many of the failings in our game over the last 25 years or so.

 

It's been insightful and honest. It will have enlightened many 'fans', laying bare how some of these egocentric oligarch owners poison our clubs.

 

I'd like to see a bit on each club, but that's perhaps a bit too much to ask for from the Beeb. I genuinely think there should be a running documentary like this on a frequent basis. It would really help generate much needed interest in football teams and the passion the game has to offer.

 

I've not been terribly excited by the Jags this year due to family commitments but I'm now itching to go and support the club as soon as possible. Clubs need fans. It's the only life support it has.

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I'm a bit shocked at the negativity this well worked series is getting so far.

Edited by brodieboy
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I've enjoyed it as well.

 

Basically showing up individuals to be egocentric fantasists. Some were in it to make a few quid. But most in it for an ego trip. Some still are.

 

I had forgotten about Pat Nevin's involvement in the demise of Motherwell.

 

And how Regan and Doncaster remain in their posts is beyond my comprehension.

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I've enjoyed it as well.

 

Basically showing up individuals to be egocentric fantasists. Some were in it to make a few quid. But most in it for an ego trip. Some still are.

 

I had forgotten about Pat Nevin's involvement in the demise of Motherwell.

 

And how Regan and Doncaster remain in their posts is beyond my comprehension.

 

Didn't see the programme tonight but was there much criticism of those two? Or is it a case of waiting ten or so years till BBC Scotland can muster some objectivity?

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No criticism by name. The narrator (near the end) talked about the authorities not listening to the fans and being miles apart from them.

 

Ta. At least thats an opinion that has some bearing on the present.

 

In my mind one of the most important issues over the last 15 years or so that BBC Scotland (along with most of the media to be fair) never addressed at the time was clubs so called success that was totally dependent on ridiculous overspending. Rangers of course are the biggy but I'm meaning more the Hearts-Gretna cup final, Livingston's league cup win, Dunfermline (twice) and Dundee reaching Scottish Cup finals, that sort of thing. We had to listen incessantly to how wonderful these achievements were when it was common knowledge some clubs mentioned were paying 130-150% of turnover on wages.

It's shameful that instead of reporting on that time bomb the Beeb were too busy sending cameras to some over priced f*****' butcher/baker who was turning out pies/cakes in the cheating team's f***** colours.

 

Rant over :D

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The programmes so far have failed to cover the big, long term, issues facing the game in Scotland (ones that the McLeish review also failed to address): The throwback from the pools days with their need for continuity, resulting in too many senior clubs. No mention yet of the veto to any change available to each of the two ugly sisters. No mention yet of long term falling gates. The programme this week twice mentions Scotland comparing itself to England ("noses to the glass") but has yet to point to the contradiction of having fan power (no change please) and club mergers that would allow more Scottish clubs to compete effectively furth of Scotland.

 

Not surprisingly, all of the journalists appearing have 20:20 hindsight, claiming to have forseen the difficulties - especially at the clubs that went into administration. Maybe the next episode will tie these loose ends together and draw some big conclusions, and maybe it might spark a debate about what the fans want from Scottish football - small locally supported mediocre to poor teams or fewer teams with better funding and more competitive domestic leagues.

 

Don't hold your breath

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The programmes so far have failed to cover the big, long term, issues facing the game in Scotland (ones that the McLeish review also failed to address): The throwback from the pools days with their need for continuity, resulting in too many senior clubs. No mention yet of the veto to any change available to each of the two ugly sisters. No mention yet of long term falling gates. The programme this week twice mentions Scotland comparing itself to England ("noses to the glass") but has yet to point to the contradiction of having fan power (no change please) and club mergers that would allow more Scottish clubs to compete effectively furth of Scotland.

 

Not surprisingly, all of the journalists appearing have 20:20 hindsight, claiming to have forseen the difficulties - especially at the clubs that went into administration. Maybe the next episode will tie these loose ends together and draw some big conclusions, and maybe it might spark a debate about what the fans want from Scottish football - small locally supported mediocre to poor teams or fewer teams with better funding and more competitive domestic leagues.

 

Don't hold your breath

 

What?

 

ETA: just out of interest, how many senior clubs should we have? What is the ideal number which would make the league more competitive? And which ones should we get rid of?

Edited by oneteaminglasgow
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The throwback from the pools days with their need for continuity, resulting in too many senior clubs.

 

The clubs were there before the pools.

 

I don't know about too many senior clubs but there's too many senior leagues. Nobody's ever explained to me why the clubs in the bottom two leagues prefer playing themselves four times a season rather than one big league playing each other twice. I could understand while it was a closed shop but now that there's a semblance of a pyramid system in place it makes little sense. The clubs in League One and League Two in England seem to get on fine.

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True, but the pools hindered change, which was my point.

 

I understand that "the pools" could at one point have an influence over the Scottish football set up. I assume that was the same with Australian football whose leagues came into play for three months over the summer. I can't tho' remember any clubs being lined up for amalgamation or take over being scuppered by the pools companies. Apart from the highly profiled takeovers of a Dundee or Embra club aside, and I suppose you could also throw in East Stirling and Clydebank in the 60s, I can't recall any other proposed amalgamations. Who are these clubs that were thwarted by the power of the pools companies?

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