Top Of The League

[Weebaw1]

Under 20's beat Aberdeen away to go top. All genuinely under 20 and some much younger.

 

With the 1st team under performing surely the time is right for some of the youngsters. Otherwise what's the point?

[Garscube Road End]

Under 20's beat Aberdeen away to go top. All genuinely under 20 and some much younger.

 

With the 1st team under performing surely the time is right for some of the youngsters. Otherwise what's the point?

Sitting bottom of the league and in a dogfight is not the time to start throwing youngsters end masses into the team.

[Jaggernaut]

Well done to all involved in the U20s.

 

I'm also frustrated at the lack of any players really coming through to the first team from the youngsters. And yet you look at some of the donkeys that we've brought in and persisted playing in the first team, to our detriment, over the past couple of seasons.....

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Great to see Harry Granger got the winner. He's just stepped up to the U20s. He evidently knocked back Celtic to sign for us a few years back.

[kevin energy]

Article about Harry here http://www.clydebankpost.co.uk/sport/13938602.Youngster_seals_move_to_Partick_Thistle/

[Lindau]

Well done to the young lads. Went through a sticky period but seem to be back on track now.

[Fearchar]

Article about Harry here http://www.clydebank...artick_Thistle/

He must be foreign: the article says he's "technically gifted". That's journo-speak for "Johnny Foreigner", isn't it?

[Dick Dastardly]

Well done to all involved in the U20s.

 

I'm also frustrated at the lack of any players really coming through to the first team from the youngsters. And yet you look at some of the donkeys that we've brought in and persisted playing in the first team, to our detriment, over the past couple of seasons.....

 

I hope that Kevin Nisbet will come into the first team squad when he comes back from Ayr (unless we sign Neymar in January)

[ian_mac]

Sure fire way to ruin a young players career - put him in to the first team before he's actually ready. Anyone who's worked at a decent level in the game will tell you this.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

I hope that Kevin Nisbet will come into the first team squad when he comes back from Ayr (unless we sign Neymar in January)

 

A close call. I'm sure i heard Archie say we're signing nae mair in January.

 

Nisbet, unlike many of the lads, is physically developed enough to be a regular squad player. Obviously not a winger but in a two up situation he'd possibly play wider than whoever is his partner.

 

Sure fire way to ruin a young players career - put him in to the first team before he's actually ready. Anyone who's worked at a decent level in the game will tell you this.

 

100% correct. Aiden Nesbitt looked too good for the U20 league last season yet we all saw he's some way off maturity as a top division player. Think we've a few players who could come into the first team if the situation so required (like Penrice last season) but that's a different matter.

[Jaggernaut]

Sure fire way to ruin a young players career - put him in to the first team before he's actually ready. Anyone who's worked at a decent level in the game will tell you this.

 

Is there an age at which they're ready? 23?

 

Roughie was 19 when he won the League Cup. So was Alex Forsyth. No ruined careers there.

 

Haven't we actually brought in players at around that age from elsewhere and immediately put them into first-team action?

Edited December 8, 2016 by Jaggernaut

[ian_mac]

Come on Jaggernaut, that was nearly 50 years ago. Not exactly a strong argument for us to promote our current youths en masse?

 

It is up to the coaching staff to decide when they're ready there's no set age. Some players are ready at 18/19, but those are the exceptions. Most players will NEVER be ready to make the step up and will have to do something else to make a living, that's a fact of life.

 

Declan McDaid was considered one of the hottest prospects in Scotland when we signed him, and we actually beat off Celtic to acquire him. But so far it hasn't happened for him, he's showed some flashes of potential but there aren't fans clamouring for him to get a start every week. The step up is massive, in so many ways. Anyone who has watched both levels regularly, such as LIB, I'm sure will agree.

Edited December 8, 2016 by ian_mac

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Is there an age at which they're ready? 23?

 

Roughie was 19 when he won the League Cup. So was Alex Forsyth. No ruined careers there.

 

Haven't we actually brought in players at around that age from elsewhere and immediately put them into first-team action?

 

Roughie and Forsyth were introduced when we played in normal leagues. Today's small league set up with all this top six/bottom six nonsense makes it harder for a manager to even switch his senior players around never mind introducing youth to the side. For good or bad development these days is a slower process.

[Weebaw1]

Ironically we shall probably see some of them breaking through next season if we get relegated.

 

I don't advocate playing them altogether and agree that, if they aren't ready they shouldn't be rushed.

 

But conversely, a good way to ruin a young player's career is to never give them a chance which is happening all too often throughout the country. So the question is, just when are they ready?

 

There are a few that have been there some years. They must think that they are stuck. They are used to winning close games, the antithesis of the 1st team.

 

It is likely that Wilson will be released but he hasn't had the chances that Welsh has had. I thought he played well in the few league cup games he played. We have another 7 or 8 at least as good as Wilson, just rather younger. There must be some light for them

 

Penrice is unfortunate that Booth is probably our most consistent performer as he is definitely ready.

[Tom Hosie]

The development of the young players was something that Archie touched on at the Q&A thing last night.

 

He commented on how there is a big jump from the 20s to the first team. His preference is for the young players to go out on loan so their progress can be monitored playing against men, as opposed to their peers, week in week out. For some reason they couldn't get these players out on loan.

 

He touched too on the lad Nesbitt we picked up on loan from Celtic last seasonwas. He signed him not expecting him to be able to play week in week out but because he wanted cover in place in case Lawless went to Dundee United which looked a distinct possibility at the time. He pointed out again the jump between under 20s football and first team football. Playing with Celtic's 20s Nesbitt saw a lot of the ball and didn't have to do much defending. That was part of his game that needed to develop and in part accounted for the penalty he gave away at Motherwell.

[Mr Bunny]

Great to see Harry Granger got the winner. He's just stepped up to the U20s. He evidently knocked back Celtic to sign for us a few years back.

 

Still only 16 years old (though from interview video he looks pretty big). Apparently his job the other night was to mark Miles Storey and he did it pretty well.

[Mr Bunny]

Roughie and Forsyth were introduced when we played in normal leagues. Today's small league set up with all this top six/bottom six nonsense makes it harder for a manager to even switch his senior players around never mind introducing youth to the side. For good or bad development these days is a slower process.

 

And also the financial loss in relegation nowadays - in fact if there wasn't such a big difference money wise you could afford to risk more young players. These days that only happens when a club knows it's doomed and plays a lot of youngsters to blood them for the next season.

[Big Col]

The ladies did us proud as are the youngsters.

 

Here's hoping the senior team begin emulating them sometime soon.

[Jaggernaut]

Ironically we shall probably see some of them breaking through next season if we get relegated.

 

I don't advocate playing them altogether and agree that, if they aren't ready they shouldn't be rushed.

 

But conversely, a good way to ruin a young player's career is to never give them a chance which is happening all too often throughout the country. So the question is, just when are they ready?

 

There are a few that have been there some years. They must think that they are stuck. They are used to winning close games, the antithesis of the 1st team.

 

It is likely that Wilson will be released but he hasn't had the chances that Welsh has had. I thought he played well in the few league cup games he played. We have another 7 or 8 at least as good as Wilson, just rather younger. There must be some light for them

 

Penrice is unfortunate that Booth is probably our most consistent performer as he is definitely ready.

 

You've expressed precisely what I think, better than I did. Also, even in recent years we have brought in players (including loanees) from elsewhere who are not much if any older than our own youngsters and parachuted them right into the first team.

 

Now, if Azeez does the business tonight.........

Edited December 8, 2016 by Jaggernaut

[Jag]

Roughie and Forsyth were introduced when we played in normal leagues. Today's small league set up with all this top six/bottom six nonsense makes it harder for a manager to even switch his senior players around never mind introducing youth to the side. For good or bad development these days is a slower process.

This, along with the monotony of playing teams four times or more in one season, is what is wrong with our game. The league is pathetic, with only one team that can win it, two or three that are likely to be scrapping it out for second place, and the rest all fighting for survival. It really makes me sick the way the people running our game are so short sighted, allowing the greed of a few clubs to hamper the chances of developing football in this country. Nobody wants to watch it, the standard is awful and it doesn't surprise me one bit that attendances at clubs like ourselves are falling.

 

The top six bottom six is nonsense as well, with some teams getting an unfair advantage over others. This was highlighted perfectly last season when the teams that finished in 4th, 5th and 6th had played one more home game than the teams finishing in 7th, 8th and 9th. It's meant to make for excitement but I'm sorry, it's garbage.

 

I would love to see the youngsters get introduced gradually in to the first team set up. It is the best opportunity to build a solid future while giving us an opportunity to bring in a decent transfer fee for one of our players. If there was a bigger league there would be less pressure on teams and they could go out and play with flair and start bleeding their young players. People always go on about the 'meaningless games' that we would see with a bigger league. It would be a perfect opportunity to bring younger players in to see if they have what it takes to make the grade. However, Ian Mac is correct - the step up is huge and I also agree it could ruin a career if introducing a player to the current environment.

 

As long as we, and the other teams round about us, continue to play with fear and a must not lose attitude, it is unlikely that we will see many of these youngsters come through in to our first team. The current league set up means things aren't going to change anytime soon and, given the relative success so far of the Under 20's, that would be a real shame.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Jag

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Well put, Jag.

 

One other unfortunate by product of the four times a season crap is that the cup trophies become devalued. It's no fault of the way the Cups are run. The League Cup final returned to late autumn but even at that the two finalists had already played each other twice. Just look at some of our cup ties over recent seasons. Falkirk, Livingston, Dunfermline, Dundee Utd, St Mirren, Accies and ICT spring to mind. Playing each other five times, sometimes six times a ******* season! No wonder there's never a queue of potential cup sponsors.

[ian_mac]

the year we won the 1st division in 01/02 we played Inverness 7 times. 4 times up there.

[Lindau]

You are spot on Jag. The whole game up here revolves round two clubs and to hell with the rest. The opportunity for massive changes in the game in 2012 was missed when they allowed the South Side abomination part 2 to resurface in the bottom league. If they had done to them, what they did to Third Lanark, Clydebank, ES Clydebank, Gretna, what a different football world we would be in today. For the top of Scotland's football authorities to come out with the Armageddon line, should have resulted in their immediate sackings, but they got away with it and they have now allowed the abomination to assume it's the same club, keep all their tainted titles and trophies, ship £1000,000,000 in debt and carry on like nothing ever happened. No wonder football in this country is on its last legs. The leagues will never change unless the changes still guarantee a minimum 4 bigotfests a season.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

The leagues will never change unless the changes still guarantee a minimum 4 bigotfests a season.

 

This sadly is so very true. I found it bad enough when everyone else was hanging on the coattails of one or two successful clubs. Wrong as it still was at least it could be argued one or even two of the ugly sisters were promoting Scottish football performance wise in a relative good light.

 

Nowadays I struggle to see how sustainable these far too regular "bigotfests" are across a worldwide media. It would be so ironic if what resulted in Scotland getting a normal league was down to an overkill of OF fixtures. That could become reasonably realistic if one cheek of the arse continues to get beaten by the other cheek.