MMCF Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 For some time now people have been asking a question which is a concern to many. Why are the numbers attending games (at Firhill) declining? If you attended tonight's game you had your answer. I remarked to my neighbours at half time that the team in blue would come out in the second half and waste as much time as was humanly possible. Sadly they lived down to my every expectation. And then some. While others discuss the merits of inabilities to break down defences and worst performances, let us spare a moment to point the finger at what this really was. This was the spectacle of people paying good money and being cheated. Cheated of any sort of entertainment whatsoever. The players from the team from Perth played to the instructions of their manager which were without a doubt kill this game. In this they were aided and abetted by a team of officials who were barely competent, led by a Referee who managed to squander the time "added on" by taking up to at least two minutes from that time to run his own little sideshow in the aftermath of the Elliot sending off. And now there will be the bare-faced temerity of many involved to demand twenty quid and more (bus fare not included) to watch a re-hash. Frankly enough is enough. A message had to be sent. And perhaps that message is to say I will not fill up your undeserving coffers. Instead I will take the twenty quid and stick it in an envelope to Firhill Street or to Bowen Boys Ltd, where only one organisation will benefit (and it wont be St Johnstone, Anti-Entertainment Inc nor will it be the the putrid employers of Mr Allan and co.) By all means support your team in the way you see fit. After all we still have freedom in this nation. But following on cynical displays such as this, an empty stadium is not a punishment nor is it a protest. Its a view of the future should we condone the tactics that were displayed this evening. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motherwell Jag Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 A dilemma for the cup game. Part of me wants to go and support the Jags. Part of me however is saying if I go then SJ will get half of my money and I don't want to give them anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMCF Posted February 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I wrote the above before listening to the comments of the manager of the team in blue. I believe it re-enforces my view when this person states "We just keep doing what's right" in his post match interview. So the display of, at times, petulant, total non-entertainment constitutes something that is, in his view, "what's right"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I wrote the above before listening to the comments of the manager of the team in blue. I believe it re-enforces my view when this person states "We just keep doing what's right" in his post match interview. So the display of, at times, petulant, total non-entertainment constitutes something that is, in his view, "what's right"? Unfortunately, many will say that it's a "results-driven business" (or "sport"). Several of my "worst ever" games have been against St. J, going back many years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas clark Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 The second half experience, if I can call it that, clouded a pretty good first half. Could we see the experiment of taking off our two most likely to score / create players and replacing them with our two least likely to score / create players as something that does'n't work? Perhaps they were both severely injured but they both seemed to walk off the pitch without obvious pain. ( I am reaching here.) The complete inability to cross, in the second half, is embarrassing. And when we do cross, the ball is not driven, it is looped into the danger zone. Which means that the striker has to find the power, for none has been delivered to them. Penrice is the only player I have seen recently in a Thistle Shirt that appeared to be able to cross before their first defender intercepted the cross and also seemed to me to drive the ball in accurately and with pace. Perhaps he has other flaws, but the ability to do that seemed to me to be beyond our team as the second half progressed. On that front, at least, we just got worse and worse. Your mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) The second half experience, if I can call it that, clouded a pretty good first half. Could we see the experiment of taking off our two most likely to score / create players and replacing them with our two least likely to score / create players as something that does'n't work? Perhaps they were both severely injured but they both seemed to walk off the pitch without obvious pain. ( I am reaching here.) The complete inability to cross, in the second half, is embarrassing. And when we do cross, the ball is not driven, it is looped into the danger zone. Which means that the striker has to find the power, for none has been delivered to them. Penrice is the only player I have seen recently in a Thistle Shirt that appeared to be able to cross before their first defender intercepted the cross and also seemed to me to drive the ball in accurately and with pace. Perhaps he has other flaws, but the ability to do that seemed to me to be beyond our team as the second half progressed. On that front, at least, we just got worse and worse. Your mileage may vary. You are perfectly correct re the crossing. Has been happening all season and yes, Penrice appears to be the only person at the club that can whip dangerous crosses in. Christie Elliot's efforts tonight to get the ball into the middle were shocking and he wasn't the only one either. As bad as we were tonight and as horrific as the game was, something tells me we will beat them in the cup up there. Nothing to base that on, on that performance....just a gut feeling! Edited February 2, 2017 by Lindau Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfaelivi Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 We should ALL get on to Cosgrove about his team this weekend. All the bleating from him and the manager of his team that the latter "doesn't get recognition" should be highlighted by us. How long can Scottish football continue if this is what a manager of one of our supposed best teams thinks is right? The way the Perth team approached the game never got better than dire!!! "The beautiful game"? Don't make me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derby Jag Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I think you all need to have a lie down. St Johnstone are a wonderfully efficient and successful club that have a style of football that works wonders for them and has done for a number of years now. It's up to us to be able to beat them which we have done successfully on a number of occasions in recent seasons. Why we think we are exponents of exciting fast football confuses me. The year we won the league and first year in the Premiership yes but since then we haven't been a particularly exciting team to watch. Just as an example last year the seemingly negative St Johnstone scored 17 more goals than us whilst conceding 5 more and this year they have scored 5 more. I would say if anything we are currently a less good version of St Johnstone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) I could accept that second half performance from St. Johnstone last night if they had needed the 3 points to avoid relegation, or win the league, or confirm a top 6 place even, but to play like that when you're already 8 points ahead of the opposition in February is unforgivable. For all Thistle's deficiencies last night, I'll take watching Archibald's team over Wright's any day. Edited February 2, 2017 by Firhillista 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of spain Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 If I was a St J fan i'd have been delighted with last night, tricky away midweek game, get one chance and take it then see the game out with embarrasing ease. I'm not really sure what you would expect a team leading away from home to do, go 4-3-3 the last half hour for a laugh? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) All that's said above is true BUT they are not really that great a side and I believe they get top 6 regularly by being more consistent than the clubs below them not by being better teams (I know consistency is a factor but in quality they are no better than and not as good as most). ALSO they gave us a lot of space (sitting back) and we did nothing with it, showing little creativity and managing to hit the first defender with almost very cross. I thought even in the first half hour when we were clearly better than them, we weren't really on our game - too many of our creative players like Lawless and Erskine were a wee bit off the boil - but were better than them as they were poor. We were poorer in the second half and they had a situation which suited them and didn't have to be good, just solid. But it boils down to this - we desperately need a half decent goal scorer. It's very likely that even if we hadn't given away a stupid goal to them, that would have been 0-0. Not scoring many goals means you always have to be on your top game and not make bad mistakes: until we get this sorted (unlikely now this season)it is unlikely we will progress beyond struggling in the bottom half of the table. If we stay up this is something that really needs addressed for next season, especially as it looks like Dolan has maybe passed his best (hope not but he'll have to start doing it very soon). It really holds us back. I know - we can't go out and buy a guaranteed goal scorer at our level but we seem to be buying guys who even at the low level we buy from didn't score before we bought them. Other teams have bought guys from lower levels (Dundee for instance though they lost them) who were good goal scorers and took the risk they would still do it at a higher level. We don't even do that. They way things are going at the moment we'd be better starting with Nisbet. Edited February 2, 2017 by Mr Bunny 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 They have every right to play the game the way they want to. So those decrying them for not being entertaining. I ask you this - would you be happy to watch that style of football if it delivered a Scottish Cup win and European qualification 3 years running? Anyone that answers no, you just aren't being honest with yourselves I'm afraid. Last night we saw a St Johnstone team that took their chance and were very well organised and disciplined in the 2nd half. They weren't there to entertain the sweety paper rustlers in the Jackie Husband stand. We also saw a very poor performance from our own team who completely ran out of ideas and looked more likely to concede at 1-0 than score. We lost the goal because of a quite frankly shocking individual error after playing well in the 1st half. You have the right to vote with your feet and not attend matches, of course. Will be interesting to see how many of you actually follow that through. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 You have the right to vote with your feet and not attend matches, of course. Will be interesting to see how many of you actually follow that through. Going by the crowd last night, looks like plenty decided watching St Johnstone wasn't worth the hassle. Going by the crowds at the two pre Xmas games, about 1000 jags fans voted with their feet. Not quite sure why. Payday had arrived, it was a reasonable evening, weather wise, our first league game at home in a month and the chance to get back into the top 6 The whole stadium was a flat as a pancake. Very little singing or encouraging the team. Was it the St Johnstone factor? Who knows. You are right Ian though regarding them. They came to do a job and they carried it out perfectly. Pretty sure if we do the exact same thing in the Cup game we will all be over the moon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 They weren't there to entertain the sweety paper rustlers in the Jackie Husband stand What a petty and pathetic comment to make about fellow supporters. I take it you were in the Northy making loads of noise that nobody hears and enjoyed St J booting the ball away every time a free kick was given against them? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) Can't believe some of the comments on here defending St. Johnstone for last night's performance. Let's get this in perspective - to get 3 points mid-season a team, which is in no danger of relegation nor of winning the league, spent the entirity of the second half killing the game, taking as long as possible over every dead ball situation, feigning injury, fouling their opponents when they thought they could get away with it (which was often) and then running the ball into the corner for the last ten minutes of the game. I, personally, don't give a toss what they have 'achieved', they are a disgrace to the game and they should be called out for it. Edited February 2, 2017 by Firhillista 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Sorry Firhillista but you aren't being completely honest with yourself I'm afraid. Are you saying you've never seen a thistle player feign injury? You've never seen a thistle team slow the game down when leading 1-0? You've never seen us take the ball in to the corner? I would suggest you watch the game again. In the 2nd half St Johnstone actually had the best chances. They cut us open twice on the counter attack and should have done better on each occasion. I can only recall us having Keown's chance in the 2nd half as well as a very weak header from Azeez which their keeper was able to collect easily. St Johnstone came to win the game and they did it. I have issues with the referee's performance, and it sounds like your gripes are actually with him. St Johnstone are a very successful club and I don't recall any of their fans complaining about their style of football. So save us the moral outrage. You are angry that we lost the game, as we all are, but you can't blame the opposition for beating us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 I don't have any complaints really. Last night was St.Johnstone "bread and butter" stuff. Get a goal up at half-time and shut up shop. The blame is squarely with our own team's ineptitude to come out and have a go in the second half. There is not a fan in the stadium last night who was under any illusion what St.Johnstone's game plan would be going into the second half, and it was up to Archibald to make positive changes to address that. It didn't happen. We moved the ball continually wide and either lost it through a piss poor cross, or played Ian McCall's famous "tippy-tappy" nonsense from side to side. St.Johnstone play a horrid brand of football, but if I am being honest, we don't play much better at times. Content to play hoof ball to the lone striker, struggled to string passes together in the final third, players with the first touch of an elephant, or our famous rugby kick for touch on the sideline. I know in our first season back in the SPL we shipped a lot of goals, but we drew plaudits for how positive our approach was, and served some entertaining stuff. That got the crowd onside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 It was horrible. Every time I ask myself why I go to see us play against them. It's as bad as a trip to Fir Park for us. The main thing that gets my goat is Wright's constant whinging of 'we never get any credit', while every media outlet is harping on about their 'resilient performances'. They've got a strong squad, they should be top 6. The number of fans they attract, I think, says a lot about their entertainment value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 How do our attendances stack up against theirs? Considering we apparently play this exciting and entertaining brand of football? They actually do ok if you take the population of Perth in to account. Their problem is the same as ours and countless other clubs - the stadium was built far too big for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 About the same, according to this site - http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avesco.htm Build in your own assumptions about higher wage bills, the undoubted attraction of the cup win/European football, they don't have too many ugly relatives dominating their territory....(I've already made my assumptions and I'm happy with the moral high ground). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Can't believe some of the comments on here defending St. Johnstone for last night's performance. Let's get this in perspective - to get 3 points mid-season a team, which is in no danger of relegation nor of winning the league, spent the entirity of the second half killing the game, taking as long as possible over every dead ball situation, feigning injury, fouling their opponents when they thought they could get away with it (which was often) and then running the ball into the corner for the last ten minutes of the game. I, personally, don't give a toss what they have 'achieved', they are a disgrace to the game and they should be called out for it. Why on earth would that matter? They want to get as many points as possible to finish as high up the league as possible. They could very easily finish 4th, giving them a great chance at another season of European football. Are you suggesting that playing as St Johnstone play is acceptable if you're in danger of relegation or in contention to win the league, but not otherwise? They play effective football, are well organised and every player knows their job. If we played like that and matched the success they've had over the past 5-6 years, I'd be absolutely delighted. Of course we'd all rather match their success and play the Barcelona-esque football that some Jags seem to think we play (which is obviously why our top scorer is a centre half), but to call them a disgrace is absolutely bizarre. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) How do our attendances stack up against theirs? Considering we apparently play this exciting and entertaining brand of football? They actually do ok if you take the population of Perth in to account. Their problem is the same as ours and countless other clubs - the stadium was built far too big for them. Wee bit wrong about the population of Perth bit. Horses mouth stuff so I take it as a fact that a considerable amount of St Johnstone's support are drawn from outside of Perth. OK, it's not a particularly populated county but they do in practice draw on a population that well exceeds the size of Perth. Nobody tho' can argue that St Johnstone don't fight above their weight. I wouldn't seriously sacrifice a Scottish Cup win and the experience of European matches just to watch better football. But, as posted elsewhere, I wouldn't be so quick in purchasing a season ticket to watch their brand of football or traveling routinely to away matches, even if the chances of picking up three points were better than the likes of us. I guess I'd have my cake and eat it and just cherry pick my games. If I'm by no means alone then last night's fare is indeed harmful to football as I'm sure most folk know all too well. Edited February 2, 2017 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firhillista Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Why on earth would that matter? They want to get as many points as possible to finish as high up the league as possible. They could very easily finish 4th, giving them a great chance at another season of European football. Are you suggesting that playing as St Johnstone play is acceptable if you're in danger of relegation or in contention to win the league, but not otherwise? They play effective football, are well organised and every player knows their job. If we played like that and matched the success they've had over the past 5-6 years, I'd be absolutely delighted. Of course we'd all rather match their success and play the Barcelona-esque football that some Jags seem to think we play (which is obviously why our top scorer is a centre half), but to call them a disgrace is absolutely bizarre. Did you watch last night's game? Would you be happy to watch that second half performance again? If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then 'bizarre' accurately describes your attitude. St. Johnstone's'success' is raging mediocrity based on football that's barely worth the name. Personally, I'd stop watching Thistle if that's what they served up every week, top six and the occasional one game in Europe included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Did you watch last night's game? Would you be happy to watch that second half performance again? If the answer to both of those questions is yes, then 'bizarre' accurately describes your attitude. St. Johnstone's'success' is raging mediocrity based on football that's barely worth the name. Personally, I'd stop watching Thistle if that's what they served up every week, top six and the occasional one game in Europe included. No, I didn't. I have, however, seen us play St Johnstone before and as the same stuff gets spouted every time, I think my opinion is fine based on past meetings. They've won a Scottish Cup, had numerous semi-finals, played in Europe 4 out of the last 5 seasons and been a top 6 club for a while. That's success, not mediocrity. That's as good as it'll ever get for the vast majority of Scottish Clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulo Posted February 2, 2017 Report Share Posted February 2, 2017 Meh, you pays your money, you takes your choice. I think a lot of the frustration boils down to us being annoyed that we're not good enough to render St Johnstone's tactics immaterial. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.