Pinhead Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 What is this obsession for some with bringing back old players? We have improved on them year on year so no thanks to stepping back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) Quality is needed, as statistically we haven't actually improved much this season. We have scored 3 less goals, conceded 4 more goals, amassed 4 less points, got a worse goal difference (-7), and won 2 less games than last season. Some, but by no means all of that could be put down to the fact we played 5 games in the Top-6 compared to last season, but even if we had of finished bottom 6, we would only have won 2 or 3 games max anyway (we only got 5pts post-split last season). So to say that there has been any statistically significant improvement this season wouldn't be accurate. The number of games lost has stayed stable however. We all know Erskine and Azeez were brought in to solve the goalscoring problem, but on paper, that hasn't actually been effective. Our 6th place position is fantastic without a doubt. But when you factor in our actual on field stats, it is obvious that much work is needed over the summer. Edited May 21, 2017 by Yellow & Redneck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) ^^ These stats are a bit dubious because we got a top 6 finish. In the top six you play five games against the top teams in the league while teams below face weaker teams. So you can't really compare them. Bottom team of top six often ends up with fewer points than top team of bottom six - for the same reason. Having said that with Hibs coming up it will be harder to make top six next season so we only have a chance if we improve the team. Possibly need a bit more cover - perhaps a couple of players (apart from Elliot) who can play more than one position. I think we've been hit worse than other teams by injuries this season (perhaps it seems that way due to a smaller squad?) and certainly in our run-in to top six some players were playing through injuries, e.g. Osman and Erskine. We could do with the luck of having fewer injuries and suspensions next season. Edited May 21, 2017 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaila Street Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 So to say that there has been any statistically significant improvement this season wouldn't be accurate. 2016 League Position : 9. 2017 League Position : 6. In a league competition the final position stat does tend to be quite significant.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow & Redneck Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 2016 League Position : 9. 2017 League Position : 6. In a league competition the final position stat does tend to be quite significant.... I think it's quite obvious that I am referencing our actual on field performances since league position can also be affected by how other teams perform against each other. You're right that league position is what matters, however, you also need to ensure that you're progressing season after season yourself. And two really good indicators of this are simply how many goals you score, and how many goals you concede. For example, to take the bias out of the Top/Bottom-6 argument completely, just compare our stats pre-split this season vs last season. The points are exactly the same, with the goal difference being 4. There certainly isn't any sign of improvement this season in that regard, and anecdotally, I think we actually played more entertaining football last season than we did this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin energy Posted May 21, 2017 Report Share Posted May 21, 2017 (edited) After today Azeez has to go he is not going to come good and score goals. Edited May 21, 2017 by kevin energy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagsman Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 remember we got bannigan due back aswell that will be like signing a new player maybe gary fraser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnyjag Posted May 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 The key stat to consider is that we only lost one game in total to any of the bottom 6 clubs, which emphasises that we deserve to be in the top 6 I think it's quite obvious that I am referencing our actual on field performances since league position can also be affected by how other teams perform against each other. You're right that league position is what matters, however, you also need to ensure that you're progressing season after season yourself. And two really good indicators of this are simply how many goals you score, and how many goals you concede. For example, to take the bias out of the Top/Bottom-6 argument completely, just compare our stats pre-split this season vs last season. The points are exactly the same, with the goal difference being 4. There certainly isn't any sign of improvement this season in that regard, and anecdotally, I think we actually played more entertaining football last season than we did this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roque Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 What is this obsession for some with bringing back old players? We have improved on them year on year so no thanks to stepping back. Agreed. People want to progress as a club, and then you see names like Liam Buchanan, John Baird and James Craigen being touted as potential signings. Absolute madness. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Agreed. People want to progress as a club, and then you see names like Liam Buchanan, John Baird and James Craigen being touted as potential signings. Absolute madness. Can't think of any recent player I'd want to see return. SOD & ATS might have been exceptions but they don't play in positions where we particularly require strengthening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunnikierjag Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Can't think of any recent player I'd want to see return. SOD & ATS might have been exceptions but they don't play in positions where we particularly require strengthening. Normally I would agree LIB but I am hoping Booths poor form is down to injury alone. Dumbaya is another who's is very injury prone and Elliot is ok filling in but not as a permanent replacement for either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weebaw1 Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Azeez has been given sufficient time by the fans and the management. He was embarrassingly bad in the last few games when one may have expected him to improve after his goal at Celtic. Archie should cut his losses and dump him now. In relation to ATS and SOD, They were both excellent payers for us and are still young. They both had bad injuries this year and perhaps have been unlucky not to receive a new contract. On this season's form, they would have walked into our team as long as their previous standards had been reached. Booth and Muzzy had much worse seasons this season compared to last for various reasons. I hope that they can both return to top form but both are causing extreme cause for concern. In addition, I have always believed ATS would be more than capable at CB if required. Go for them both! I hope DU do not get promoted as I like the look of their front 4 and would covet all of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kenny Posted May 22, 2017 Report Share Posted May 22, 2017 Hibs in for Simon Murray. Looks mine he won't be Firhill bound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jags on tour Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Now confirmed that Amoo, Welsh, Ridgers and Wilson are leaving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 A little bid sad to see Sean Welsh go but I would imagine it was a straight choice between him and Fraser as to who we kept. Fraser definitely the better player if he can get fit. Ironically, he will be under the same terms as Welsh was a couple of years ago after his run of injuries. Hope Sean gets a decent contract somewhere else, five years good service at Firhill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Col Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Sean has had a very good season as well, and he'll get a deal somewhere no problem. A bit surprised at Fraser getting a new deal. Hasn't really done anything when fit, and with our restricted budget, we should be focussing in players who are not injury prone. Totally agree with the comments about Azeez. Time to go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Murray Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Very sad to see Welsh go - must have been a very difficult decision to let him go. He is a class act and is a big loss. Amoo just has not done enough this season - very frustrating player who is capable of better if he would believe in himself a bit more. Surprised a Fraser getting a deal without proving his fitness in a pre-season. He is probably the most technically gifted player in the squad but has had a terrible run of injuries. Over the next few weeks I think you will see Azeez getting freed as well. The big guy has had some good games for us but has zero confidence in front of goal. We know Archie would have been working very hard with him on this but really he has went backward over the course of the season. Would love to be wrong on him though - he is very entertaining to watch but has little final product in front of goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggymct Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 I have heard from a fairly reliable source that we are in the market for a striker, winger and a central defender. Not surprising really given the number of midfielders we have. I dont have a problem with Azeez being kept on but we do need another goalscorer as it is not his strong point ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Agreed. People want to progress as a club, and then you see names like Liam Buchanan, John Baird and James Craigen being touted as potential signings. Absolute madness. I am not sure anyone was being serious about signing any of them. More a comment that looking down the leagues at those performing well, at least in the goal charts, can be very misleading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Fraser's contract is only till January Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 The Murray rumour was too good to be true. I hope we manage to get our business done early doors so they are part of the pre season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 I think people look back on SOD and ATS with rose tinted glasses. Both fantastic in an attacking top of the first division team. But as defenders in a mid table Premiership they didn't have it on a consistent enough basis. As demonstrated by our first season up. SOD was a confidence player and when he was on a bad patch, nothing got him out of it, the whole world was against him. Archie has learned from experience that to be safe in this league you need to play safe. The overlapping wingback flair and abandon of the first season up has all but gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 Agree on SOD but I thought that along with Banzo, ATS stepped up better than anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 I thought SOD improved as a player each season, and was a very decent full back in his last season with us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted May 23, 2017 Report Share Posted May 23, 2017 I think people look back on SOD and ATS with rose tinted glasses. Both fantastic in an attacking top of the first division team. But as defenders in a mid table Premiership they didn't have it on a consistent enough basis. As demonstrated by our first season up. SOD was a confidence player and when he was on a bad patch, nothing got him out of it, the whole world was against him. Archie has learned from experience that to be safe in this league you need to play safe. The overlapping wingback flair and abandon of the first season up has all but gone. i guess it's all about opinions but rose coloured glasses or not I still feel they are a step up from some of the defenders we have just now Devine and Booth. Mustapha is class when fit but has only played 30 games including substitute appearances in 2 years that is not a huge number of appearances at all and I don't see his injury worries clearing up. Can't fault Elliot's versatility and obviously right back was not the position he was signed for but I see O Donnell an upgrade on him in the role though Christie is probably the most versatile player we have at the club. All about opinions though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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