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Hearts 23/9/17


Auld Jag
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I think we're all very frustrated, yet again because we have a stronger squad than last season and yet again we didn't win after being ahead. However I think some of the criticism of individual players is unfair, the back three were tremendous and each of the others contributed well in parts of the game eg I thought Barton had a poor first half and a good second while Edwards was the opposite.

Let's not panic, but rather come to conclusions after the first 11 games when we know where we stand against the usual suspects for the bottom six. I'm confident in this group of players and the management team, let's get behind them and encourage them to reach their potential.

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Watching the Motherwell game the other night, they had fighters all over the park, never stopped closing down, never gave Aberdeen a minute on the ball. We allow teams to play and ultimately score. Next week we will surrender possession every time because when were closed down we don't know what to do and kick it away as quick as we can.

 

Its time to stop using the 'wee team' excuse. Its Archie's job to find a way to win. Take a leaf out of Hamilton and Motherwell's books. Keep the ball out of our half and attack because we certainly cant defend. Until then we will continue to drop points and we will be lucky to stay up this year

 

Pretty harsh given we finished above both those teams last season, and that was with (another) honking start to the season.

I know we are on a horrendous run without a win, but be arent getting gubbed by teams and I have every confidence we will go on a good run soon. I think bannigan in for Barton would make a big difference just now.

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We lack creative spark when Erskines not playing or not on form. Spittal has thankfully chipped in so far. Without both we would toil badly.

 

Total lack of composure for most of the 2nd half. Ball retention was very poor, panic hoofs from the edge of our box seemed to perpetuate our play. Scully being a prime offender.

 

Still, disappointed at only a point against hearts shows where we are as a club. All in all, not a bad place.

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Oh, and I don't think the ball was over the line. Didn't think so at the time, and not changing my opinion from watching that gif.

 

Officials were very quick to award a goal right enough. No great surprise there.

 

Was the linesman right on the line? If so, I would grudgingly accept I'm wrong.

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I'm putting yesterday down to the culmination of a few things.

 

We didn't score a second before half time.

 

We came out in the second half and played with very little pace.

 

Elliott going off changed the game, Hearts raised their game to not allow our full back changes time to settle into their roles.

 

Scully's kicking was deplorable. Barely getting over the half way line and never reaching a Thistle player meant our players had to sit deep to protect our goal. Using a higher line would have been suicide with his kicking.

 

On a side note, some of our supporters are fckin idiots.

 

Doolan was poor and wasn't understanding 2 up top. He repeatedly made Storeys run, when he should have been hitting the back post, leaving us short in the middle for the final ball.

 

Folk criticising archie for subbing Dools for Banzo, and in the same posts complimenting our ability to get back into it in the last 10, are fckin idiots!

 

Folk criticising the team for hopelessly punting, yet criticising Barton "dallying" are fckin idiots. He's looking for a pass that doesn't reliquish possession!!!

 

Folk wanting Banzo to be starting? The guys just been out for a year! He's nowhere near fit. We should be protecting our players, not destroying them!

 

Feel sorry for Nesbit. He's a victim of our own success. Not good enough for the Premiership. Will do well in the Championship, maybe.

 

Final point, we were without Cerny, Booth, Dumbuya, Osman, Fraser, Erskine & Sammon yesterday.

 

 

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Frustrated again but remain very positive.

 

Aye, our squad is better than last year. Storey Sammon and Spittal > Pogba Amoo and Azeez. Be nice to have been able to hold onto Lindsay but he'd have proper competition in Devine, Keown and Turnbull.

 

Erskine, Sammon, Booth and Cerny would all have started that match if they had been available. We also have Osman out, Dumbaya and Fraser to come back hopefully at some point.

 

We dropped 2 points, losing a "goal" by a matter of inches. Really disappointing we doth protest it not enough. Perhaps a worrying resignation to losing late goals that our boys didn't make more of a fuss.

 

Look at the gif. Is it Turnbull hobbling back into the box as a hearts midfielder surges in and behind Callachan? We lost that "goal" effectively down to 10 men. We woz robbed, and should have been screaming at the ref about the crime.

 

 

I'd have liked to have seen us starting with Lawless, or bringing him on for Storey at half time. Miles didn't have a bad game, but i thought Stevie earned his place after the rangers game. If not, he's the type of player who could have come on at HT and kept the hustle on a Hearts side that are still to gel. Levein doesn't know how to play them yet.

 

Bring on the 'Well. With a fully fit squad, we'd tank them.

 

For example :

 

Cerny

 

Dumbuya Devine Turnbull Booth

 

Osman Barton

 

Spittal Erskine Lawless

 

Doolan

 

 

Scully

 

Keown

 

Elliot

 

McGinn

 

Bannigan

 

Edwards

 

Storey

 

Sammon

 

 

.... I'd be pretty confident against anyone with that, or a combination thereof... Nitriansky, Nisbet Fraser and McCarthy could all come in without too much grumbling....

 

 

 

 

 

As it is, heading to fir park, 50/50, hard to call. No shame in that.

 

:fan:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"goal"? ... yer f**kin pie!!! :sad1: ...

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Oh, and I don't think the ball was over the line. Didn't think so at the time, and not changing my opinion from watching that gif.

 

Officials were very quick to award a goal right enough. No great surprise there.

 

Was the linesman right on the line? If so, I would grudgingly accept I'm wrong.

 

If he was and made the call it was the only decision he took. All afternoon he waited unti the ref decided

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I'm putting yesterday down to the culmination of a few things.

 

We didn't score a second before half time.

 

We came out in the second half and played with very little pace.

 

Elliott going off changed the game, Hearts raised their game to not allow our full back changes time to settle into their roles.

 

Scully's kicking was deplorable. Barely getting over the half way line and never reaching a Thistle player meant our players had to sit deep to protect our goal. Using a higher line would have been suicide with his kicking.

 

On a side note, some of our supporters are fckin idiots.

 

Doolan was poor and wasn't understanding 2 up top. He repeatedly made Storeys run, when he should have been hitting the back post, leaving us short in the middle for the final ball.

 

Folk criticising archie for subbing Dools for Banzo, and in the same posts complimenting our ability to get back into it in the last 10, are fckin idiots!

 

Folk criticising the team for hopelessly punting, yet criticising Barton "dallying" are fckin idiots. He's looking for a pass that doesn't reliquish possession!!!

 

Folk wanting Banzo to be starting? The guys just been out for a year! He's nowhere near fit. We should be protecting our players, not destroying them!

 

Feel sorry for Nesbit. He's a victim of our own success. Not good enough for the Premiership. Will do well in the Championship, maybe.

 

Final point, we were without Cerny, Booth, Dumbuya, Osman, Fraser, Erskine & Sammon yesterday.

 

Agree with the majority of this. Thought Nesbit did quite well when he came on, injected a bit of pace at the end of the game and put Barton through on goal.

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Theres more chance of having Dembele play for us that Dumbuya. Why are we holding ot for him to return from injury? He is a chronic sick note

 

Holding out for him? We signed 2 right backs in McGinn and Nitriansky and groomed Elliot for the role. Christie's made about 15 starts at RB now.

 

It's hard to sell an injured 30 year old player and who know's his contract details?

 

His deal takes him up to the end of this season. He maybe offers a little of the three alternatives in one package. If he can return by the turn of the year, keep his pace after recovery, he's worth keeping

 

If you mean "we" fans... Mustapha's a good player. I hope he returns.

Edited by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz
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I'm putting yesterday down to the culmination of a few things.

 

We didn't score a second before half time.

 

We came out in the second half and played with very little pace.

 

Elliott going off changed the game, Hearts raised their game to not allow our full back changes time to settle into their roles.

 

Scully's kicking was deplorable. Barely getting over the half way line and never reaching a Thistle player meant our players had to sit deep to protect our goal. Using a higher line would have been suicide with his kicking.

 

On a side note, some of our supporters are fckin idiots.

 

Doolan was poor and wasn't understanding 2 up top. He repeatedly made Storeys run, when he should have been hitting the back post, leaving us short in the middle for the final ball.

 

Folk criticising archie for subbing Dools for Banzo, and in the same posts complimenting our ability to get back into it in the last 10, are fckin idiots!

 

Folk criticising the team for hopelessly punting, yet criticising Barton "dallying" are fckin idiots. He's looking for a pass that doesn't reliquish possession!!!

,

Folk wanting Banzo to be starting? The guys just been out for a year! He's nowhere near fit. We should be protecting our players, not destroying them!

 

Feel sorry for Nesbit. He's a victim of our own success. Not good enough for the Premiership. Will do well in the Championship, maybe.

 

Final point, we were without Cerny, Booth, Dumbuya, Osman, Fraser, Erskine & Sammon yesterday.

Agree with part of what you saw yesterday , think you're right that the game changed a bit when Christie went off , still think Barton is better in a 3 at the back rather than an out and out midfield player as he's a better link to the midfield with his passing and his composure on the ball. It would mean probably Devine dropping out and getting Banzo back into the team .

Don't think it was a conventional 2 upfront we played at all yesterday as Storey and Doolan were hardly within 20 yards of each other the whole game , with Miles Storeys best work down the sides with his pace.

Probably wasn't Dools best game but as soon as you take him off our goal threat all but disappears , as he's proved time and time again he's doesn't need to be having the best of games to be the match winner .

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Theres more chance of having Dembele play for us that Dumbuya. Why are we holding ot for him to return from injury? He is a chronic sick note

Its all ifs and buts with Muzzy and that isn't what we need. I must be reading your post wrong about being hard to sell as I don't know where that was said. Besides, who would buy a race horse with 3 legs?

 

Ifs buts and hard luck. No we don't need that, but a fit Muzzy would be useful.

 

He'd a good first season with us. Ankle and knee niggles but we must've got a decent 20 odd games out him and handed him a two year extension.

 

He did his achilles pre-season last year. Came back , won 4 lost 2 drew 2 of the games he played in. Then his knee went right out.

 

Free him halfway through a contract don't make sense. Wouldn't be free for us and unless he is a right off we could rue letting him go too early.

 

We've got plenty RB cover now, but McGinn didn't come in till end of august. The club ain't holding out for Muzzy. Seems to me they are holding out for decent affordable players and giving them a fair chance.

 

I'd love to see Muzzy back. Not saying it's likely or essential, just think he's worthy of hope.

 

I think Dumbuya's race is run. Freed at Christmas?

 

Maybe. But he came in last february and did a decent shift.

 

There might still be something there. Pace is a big part of his value. Injury might rob him of it, but at 30 he might have a couple of years left if he recovers well.

 

He had 3 seasons of 20+ games then 20+ in his first with us. Don't think he's necessarily "injury prone" just think it's maybe our donald duck.

 

Think it depends on his recovery and if we can get better cover at LB lined up for the window or next year. Elliot, Nitriansky and McGinn would be adequate if we had better cover for Booth.

 

If we knew more about his injury then could say yay or nay.

 

This. There's apparently more to this story than meets the eye.

 

McGinn's a very good replacement, so time for everyone to move on.

 

Whaddaya know Barney?

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Muzzy played 20 games in his first season, but only 9 last season. No idea what his current prognosis is, can someone in the know please update?

 

Re what I know - not appropriate to divulge on an open forum, but informed discussion indicates there are wider issues with Muzzy. Shame as he's a tidy player. We've got greater reliability with Milan and Paul, although probably less flair as a result. The greater problem is now at left back though, as like Abdul Osman, we are now only realising the value of Callum Booth once he's not there.

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Just some random thoughts.

 

It's impossible to tell from the pictures I've seen whether or not the ball crossed the line for the Hearts goal... the scorer, Callachan, had turned away and was celebrating the goal before Devine got his head to the ball and the referee was 25 yards away...neither of them was in a position to see...it was called by the Linesman who must have phenomenal eyesight to be sure.

 

Barton was exceptional in defence last season but his style isn't suited to midfield. I was surprised at the criticism I read about him being slow and regularly caught in possession in the first few games of the season but on the two occasions I've seen him, this has been an accurate assessment. I don't think we are getting the best out of a very talented player.

 

Bannigan's ability to find space in midfield, keep possession and work the ball forward was shown in the chances we made in the last ten minutes. He is such a good player that I would have liked to see him start even if we only got 60 minutes from him. We really needed his influence on the game as we played deeper as the second half progressed. I hoped we would have brought him on when Elliott was injured, moving Barton back and Turnbull to left back. However, he is too valuable to be risked when he is recovering from such a serious injury.

 

Scully made a good save in the first half, but apart from a decent shot in the second half which went just past the post and other than the goal, Hearts didn't make a single clear chance despite their possession. We defended very well.

 

We have had a difficult run of fixtures and were without five players (plus Banzo) who if fit and in form would be first-choice starters. We have had decisions given against us which would never have been given against Celtic, Rangers and Hearts. Surely everyone realises after 4 seasons in this League that outwith the Big City clubs who have far more resources, there is very little between the other sides. We haven't played any of them so far other than a draw with Ross County away and a win & loss both away against St Johnstone...this forum will be entertaining when we eventually have a bad result.

Edited by Winter of '63
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To be honest, it's the opposite for me. With Booth missing it's demonstrating just how good Elliott is. I prefer him over booth at left back.

 

Interesting comment which leads me to a genuine question - Given that Callum is a natural left back and Christie (for all of his qualities) is a fish out of water on the left, why do you say that you prefer Christie at left back?

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To be honest, it's the opposite for me. With Booth missing it's demonstrating just how good Elliott is. I prefer him over booth at left back.

 

I agree Christie's showing what an asset and how versatile he is.

 

However, he's only been on the left in the last 3 games. At county we played a back 4 but for the old firm soothside snobs and Jam tarts we started with 3 centre halfs.

 

He's got a chance to make it a good problem for the gaffer. Let's see how we shape up in the next 4 games.

 

Definitely puts the pressure on Booth.... and others...

 

3 at the back and Christie probably shades it on a returning from injury Booth. However, he's maybe better than both McGinn and Nitriansky on the right in that formation.

 

The back 3 is strong but I'd prefer to see us playing a back 4 against most teams. Right now, as good as Elliot has been, I'd still be more confident with a fit Booth in a back 4 and from what I've seen probably McGinn on the right.

 

Asides from being handed the gloves, I think the defensive midfield is about the only place Elliot hasn't been given a run out. Might be worth a wee experiment if Abdul is out for months... ... seriously... why not? He's absolutely earned a place in the team... just figuring out how to build it around him is the hard part!

 

Rave on Christie Elliot!!!

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