Pinhead Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 The man is unsackable, he could shite in Beatties kettle and would probably get a wage rise. Barton is the Darren Brady of the team, undroppable! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 I am behind Archie. I think a change in manager would maybe give us a brief period of improvement but nothing long lasting. Plus who would we get? Unlikely we will be bringing in someone with EPL experience like county and killie. His signings this season have actually been quite good. Keown - we all wanted him and got him Storey - is a good signing and better than what we have had behind doolan for years. Spiral - guy is out top scorer. He has had a few off games but generally a good signing. McGinn - has been player of the season since his arrival. Sure there are a couple of poor signings but generally they have been good. It’s the injuries that have really hit us and we need osman and booth back ASAP. Don’t get me wrong we need to pick up points in the coming home games or we will really be adrift. Hopefully in the January break we can get a few players back to help out the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thru thin and thin Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 I am also behind Archie. Problem is there are no teams behind the Jags in the League. He seems to be quite 'strachanesque' in the way he sticks doggedly in attempting to persist with players trying to play a system that they cannot play. Gordon Strachan was stubborn and loyal that way, and we all know what fate befell him. I really do hope that Archie can try something different. All of our opponents do not need to send scouts to our matches - they all know how we will line up, and the tactical options we will adopt. McCann was at Firhill last Wednesday and nullified our same starting line up from the word go - we should have started differently. Surely, we must play to the strengths we have. Put Barton into sweeper role - for Pete' sake he was our Player of the Year in that position. Drop Devine or Keown, they are too similar, keep going for the same ball and are so close they regularly play ricochet's off of each other. Move turnbull into midfield, most comfortable defender on the ball. Play Sammon and Doolan as a twin strike force - we need goals from somewhere? Lone striker role no use at this stage. Fit whoever you want from the rest available. Perhaps dropping some of the ever presents might do them some good. As a collective the team are making the same mistakes, and the heads go down to quickly, week in and week out. I have only noticed Edwards and Cerny getting angry with their team mates on the pitch. Get some pride back! Show some leadership, both in the dugout and on the pitch! We are Thistle! We can get thru this! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Ideally what we need right now is an experienced premier league manager who has a successful record in turning teams around from a disappointing first half of the season. I wonder where we'd find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) Ideally what we need right now is an experienced premier league manager who has a successful record in turning teams around from a disappointing first half of the season. I wonder where we'd find one. Allyo, leaving aside your habitual sarcasm, what do you think our current manager can do to turn around our disappointing first half of the season? Edited December 17, 2017 by Barney Rubble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Flash his arse at the next home game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mull Jag Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Its fine saying sack ArchiE, who are we going to replace him with ? For me he needs 4 points before the new year break to be safe. The problem I think is in defence, Devine is no leader , he allows Barton and Edwards to fall back on him and Keown thus surrendering the midfield and creating the problem of too many men in one area. A big ugly centre back is needed to drag the team forward and up the park. Is the Left back in the u-20s capable of stepping up ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falklandal1 Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Its fine saying sack ArchiE, who are we going to replace him with ? For me he needs 4 points before the new year break to be safe. The problem I think is in defence, Devine is no leader , he allows Barton and Edwards to fall back on him and Keown thus surrendering the midfield and creating the problem of too many men in one area. A big ugly centre back is needed to drag the team forward and up the park. Is the Left back in the u-20s capable of stepping up ? Can I suggest that anything less than 6 points is not acceptable,we are not playing at all well,at least last season we were looking like we could beat teams,not this season.The reason Archie is not playing any of the Development Squad is that they are just not good enough,Mcarthy/Mclaughlin aside there are no one up to Standard I'm afraid.Penrice is not ready yet,that is why he was farmed out to Livingston to bring him to a better level.Agree that we need a better Centre Half than the current incumbents,the defence has gone from decent to bombscare and we badly need a leader on the park,where we are going to get one I have no idea.What is worrying about Messers Clarke/Coyle is that they have wide contacts throughout the game and appear to be able to attract players whereas we struggle to attract good players for whatever reason.Injuries have not helped but we knew they were long term and failed to cover,now we realise just how important Christie was to the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Is the Left back in the u-20s capable of stepping up ? Fleming is the recognised left back (in lieu of Penrice). He's just made a return to the U20s after being out injured for a lengthy spell. I'd say on pre injury form he was what you could say able to step up in an emergency such as this but still be a fourth choice behind Booth, Penrice and Christie. Think Penrice has six fixtures to go at Livingston. Trust he'll not get injured as I sense he'll be an important addition when we resume next month. He'll at least bring some balance back into the side and mean we can play with a bit more width. Two right sided centrebacks is never ideal but usually not too much a problem when you've a conventional left sided full back alongside. Turnbull can't and probably never will be what you could describe as a conventional full back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fearchar Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 IIRC any failing manager goes through two phases: 1) saying things are or are not happening which are at odds with what fans can see on the field of play (you know the kind of thing: "We were well in the game at half-time" and "I thought we began brightly in the second half, bringing the game to them" when describing a 5-1 drubbing) and 2) showing an inability to influence the team ("losing the dressing room" in the journos' lingo), e.g. "I think maybe some of the boys just presumed we’d start well as we did in midweek but it doesn’t work like that in football. You’ve got to work hard and win the individual battles which we struggled with today." and "the lads let their standards slip". Either the team (which Archie put together) has to be transformed (how? at what cost?) or he has to go. Otherwise, relegation is a certainty. Uncertainty over the identity of a future manager is no reason to delay, unless the board is prepared to suffer relegation, and in that case, Archie would be made indispensable for ever, to the point of going part-time in lower divisions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Uncertainty over the identity of a future manager is no reason to delay, unless the board is prepared to suffer relegation, and in that case, Archie would be made indispensable for ever, to the point of going part-time in lower divisions. See your point but if we were to get relegated Archie would be the ideal manager to get us promoted. I can't think of anyone who would've had more experience of that division coupled with success. Factor in his knowledge of the Club and their can't be anyone better. I'm only stating what I believe to be as near a fact as damn it. Having Archie as a manager in that division would be the best insurance of not dropping into part time obscurity. Put another way say we sack Archie but still end up in the Championship. Do we stick with the new man who still couldn't keep us up or find yet another manager? Either way I contend neither would be nearly as qualified as Archie would be at that level. That imo means replacing Archie anytime this season is a huge gamble. Personally I don't believe sacking Archie to be justified but in any event acquiring a new manager would have to virtually guarantee league survival otherwise we'd most assuredly be worse off next season by changing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 The bbc did an analysis of every new manager in the English premiership from bottom clubs and in every case whilst not guaranteeing safety it did improve the performance of every team Every spfl team that has changed their manager this season is currently above us in the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) I don't get the logic of your argument LIB, for a number of reasons: First, the Championship will have changed almost completely w.r.t. players and managers since we were there, so prior knowledge can be discounted. Second, Archibald's success in getting us promotion was largely a result of Macnamarra's efforts. Third, Archibald's major flaw - his apparent inflexibility and slowness of reaction during games will not become any less of a burden in the Championship. Fourth, he is currently surviving on goodwill, and that would have gone from both the Board and the fans by next season. A poor start to the season (not unknown) would place him under all sorts of pressure, so we would be back where we started but a rung down the ladder. Fifth, relegation will mean a reduced player budget and a depleted squad, and that will call for a more imaginative approach - something, for all his attributes, that Archibald manifestly lacks. Unless the Board have someone significantly better than Archibald in their sights who is immediately available, I see no option other than for the Board to back Archibald and allow him to sign some more players in January. If we get relegated, he goes the following day, and that should be made clear to him now. As someone has said it is not Alan Archibald FC. Edited December 18, 2017 by eljaggo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Every spfl team that has changed their manager this season is currently above us in the league As are all the ones who haven't 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) Way I see it, it's a risk either way. No question we're in a bit of trouble at the moment. More trouble than previous seasons because it's not just results that are poor, it's also performances. I can understand why people are calling for a change of manager. But it just seems like the easy answer to me. There is no guarantee of success whether we stick or twist. Personally I wouldn't sack him, because he has been successful in the job for almost five years, has experience of the situation and still has an opportunity to turn it round. I think football is a basket case of an industry and I'm proud that Thistle have played it differently. It may not work, we may go down, but we may have gone down anyway. I'm not averse to showing a bit of faith and seeing how it goes. I think he's a good manager (obviously not faultless). And a don't understand Thistle fans who have experienced the last five years yet don't see this. By the way, anyone still suggesting that our most successfully consistent spell in almost 40 years is down to Jackie McNamara is deluded at best. He had a decent half season, half a decade ago. Edited December 18, 2017 by allyo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northjag Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 The club is in a much better place than what it was in the bad old days. We need to have a bit of perspective and realise things are not that bad. Archie deserves time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Every spfl team that has changed their manager this season is currently above us in the league From the time of our promotion, last season was the only season where a relegated club stuck with the same manager. Dundee relegated after sacking Barry Smith (Feb). Hibs relegated after sacking their manager Fenlon (Nov), St Mirren relegated after sacking their fella, Craig (Dec). Dundee Utd relegated after sacking you know who (Sept). Each of the four appointed managers (Bomber Brown, Butcher, Teale, Mixu) didn't improve their team's performance to anything above a marginal level despite being given plenty of the season to do so. They all were of course in turn dismissed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 As are all the ones who haven't Who are they exactly then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 From the time of our promotion, last season was the only season where a relegated club stuck with the same manager. Dundee relegated after sacking Barry Smith (Feb). Hibs relegated after sacking their manager Fenlon (Nov), St Mirren relegated after sacking their fella, Craig (Dec). Dundee Utd relegated after sacking you know who (Sept). Each of the four appointed managers (Bomber Brown, Butcher, Teale, Mixu) didn't improve their team's performance to anything above a marginal level despite being given plenty of the season to do so. They all were of course in turn dismissed. Not sure what the relegated team point has to do with it ... I suspect Killie fans are happy though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Who are they exactly then ? Celtic, Aberdeen, Hibs, St Johnstone, Motherwell, Hamilton and Dundee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Celtic, Aberdeen, Hibs, St Johnstone, Motherwell, Hamilton and Dundee Neil McCann was appointed on 1 June so this season and above us in the league like everybody else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Javeajag, are you okay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy Posted December 18, 2017 Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Of course you have a monopoly of getting behind the team from your self built moral high ground .... Self built moral high ground? Do you even know what that means?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Self built moral high ground? Do you even know what that means?! Yes you think your better and above everyone else .....too many words ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted December 18, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2017 Javeajag, are you okay? Very ok but thanks for asking 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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