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Thistle v Motherwell


eljaggo
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It's a draining experience supporting Patrick Thistle. Tonight was the season in miniature - we started reasonably well, the opposition didn't look a better team, we didn't make many clear chances, we lost a soft goal and we didn't get the break that might have got us a point..  I haven't been to any away games and I miss out on Old Firm games but only Dundee in the first game at Firhill have outplayed us...and we won that game.  I haven't actually seen us play well or embarrassingly badly this season, just a whole series of frustratingly ordinary performances.

Barton looked classy then disappeared, not for the first time this season Erskine's substitution lessened the prospect of us creating chances,  Doolan is more likely to score than Sammon, Storey has not been a good signing, we missed McCarthy & Booth...and how was Edwards voted Man of the Match? He runs about like a terrier after the ball but seldom wins it, he lacks composure on the ball, he seldom plays an incisive pass or runs past defenders...he has been a regular in the side for most of the season which has frequently been over-run in midfield.

We have beaten a poor Hamilton side twice at Firhill, they have lost a fortune and their best players , they have stuck with their uninsp[ring manager and they have lost 8 of their last 9 games...and they are safe from relegation. Even with the flaws in the team, we should have done better...our League position reflects the failure of the management and players to step up to show the character and ability to win matches when it matters.

We haven't been good enough this season but we can still stay up...if we do, the Club will have some tough decisions to make to improve the performance of the team.

 

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I thought McGinn was our best player tonight - and he's just signed for St Mirren!

I could not believe the double substitution. Storey is a lower league player at best. Doolan could wellhave scored the one he muffed. He seemed pleased to get it within 2 yards of the far post. He was never going to score. Sammon was again useless and should have buried his early chance and possibly another when he fell over. He's an impact player.

Robinson shrewdly changed tactics at ht as we were in the ascendancy and they blew us away after the break. Archie had no idea how to counteract this. The no 5 had a huge green pasture to patrol with not a Jags defender in sight, for the whole of the 2nd half.

And then I heard Archie say that we have played well in the last 4 games. Perhaps in wee spells in these games but not for 90 or even 45 minutes!

Delivery was again shocking all night and microcosmed by Spittal and Cargill's pathetic efforts at the end. Even the daftest posters on here can see that Christie should be nowhere near LB. Use him properly at RB especially as we have a perfectly competent LB in Penrice on the bench.

We should  make the play off because Ross are so poor and we can win it but we need an overhaul in the summer.

 

 

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1 minute ago, allyo said:

I know it's frustrating and we were rubbish and all that, but can the people stating that they don't care if we go down just confirm that it's a figure of speech or a desperate attempt to retain their sanity, rather than their actual belief. It's just, I need to know.

Regardless of what anyone thinks of our manager, our players our prospects, surely or club's position in the premier league is something that we want to hang on to, right?

I fully agree with you allyo  - but let's face it, it shouldn't come as a surprise that after two more 'must win' home games, neither of which we won, fellow fans are feeling disillusioned tonight.

After all, the consensus of opinion is that this is the best squad since we came up..................................

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Haven't been this disappointed in a Thistle team in quite some time. The first half was decent apart from the small matter of putting the ball in the net, but I wasn't overly concerned as we were controlling possession and they looked bereft of ideas. In the second half, however, we were an utter shambles. laukat has nailed a couple of the points I intended to make. They changed shape during the break and as a consequence were destroying us down their right and outmanning us in the middle. It took far too long for us to respond -- so much so that we were one down when we finally did. Then the changes we did make only made things worse. Our game-plan, shape, pattern of play -- all of it -- seemed to go completely out of the window. Some of our decision-making was really poor as the ideas dried up and desperation set in. We repeatedly selected the wrong pass or lashed shots into defenders/out of play when there were better options available; and over and over we launched the ball towards Sammon only for it to come arcing straight back. It really was desperate stuff. 

In these postmortems I tend to identify positives in even the worst of performances. I suppose I should stick to that formula, but it's difficult tonight. Adam Barton didn't do much wrong -- he looked assured in possession and won a fair amount in the air -- and Erskine ran himself into the ground. But I can't get over that second half. Bloody hell. 

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56 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

Everyone knows that Archie has been given a longer rope than any other Thistle manager would conceivably be given. Reminds me of the situation at Rangers under McCoist. 

In all seriousness, regardless of what happens during the next 1 or 3 matches, major changes are needed in the summer. Archibald should walk. The club is stagnant under him, and it is clear that he hasn't the ability to take this club on. His useless signings like Devine, Cargill, Woods, McGinn, Storey, Spittal, and Barton should all follow him out. Fraser, Scully, Muzzy, and Lawless have all been carried for far too long, and have shown either they cannot stay fit, or haven't the ability to make it in the top flight. 

Both the long-term planning and substitutions in games seem to be random - the sign of a manager out of his depth. Also to follow should be those dealing with health and fitness. Judging by the injuries, followed by further injuries once players have apparently recovered, and, of course, the growing list of long-term injured, doing without any health and fitness staff altogether and leaving it up to the players and their GPs would be healthier.

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21 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

I fully agree with you allyo  - but let's face it, it shouldn't come as a surprise that after two more 'must win' home games, neither of which we won, fellow fans are feeling disillusioned tonight.

After all, the consensus of opinion is that this is the best squad since we came up..................................

Yeah, of course I do. I suppose I just get frustrated myself and then get dragged down further coming on here.

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I've got to be honest , on our displays this season we deserve to go down, we've got a manager who is now past his sell by date and living off his previous status as a player/manager .Everyone within the football world acknowledges it's a results driven industry except the board of directors at our club. 

Archie should have been sacked in December , to give our club and the new manager a chance to sort it out and at least give us a chance of staying up.

Tonights game once again reverted to type , launching the ball to Sammon who is probably the worst million pound player I've ever seen, taking off Doolan and Erskine was absolutely bizarre to say the least .

Got to agree with previous posters , should have started 3 5 1 1 with Penrice left side and Elliott right side , with Barton giving some assurance to our 2 dodgy centre halves .

Let Doolan play as a centre forward rather than a right winger and possibly be the goal threat we know he can be.

 

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57 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

I fully agree with you allyo  - but let's face it, it shouldn't come as a surprise that after two more 'must win' home games, neither of which we won, fellow fans are feeling disillusioned tonight.

After all, the consensus of opinion is that this is the best squad since we came up..................................

Many folk have indeed suggested that this is our best squad in years, but in fact it's the very opposite: it's the worst in years, if we judge by motivation, ability to score, ability to defend, and most of all, results.

Who would I keep next season, regardless of where we are?: Cerny, Elliott, Booth, McCarthy, Penrice, Erskine, Doolan. 

The rest can GTF. 

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I left 5s early tonight to watch this crap.

Let's face it, we've been rotten since we finished top 6 last season and hardly won a game since then, that's poor.

The calibre of signings shows lack of pulling power the club and/or manager has.

The tactics don't work, theres no plan b.

Tonight we saw for the second game in a row, a team change their tactics and formation against us and we didn't know how to deal with it. The MWell no5 came on in midfield and went for everything in his zone, in the same zone we've got a midfielder who runs abt like a headless chicken and another who will forever pass side ways or back.

No creativity, we're so obvious at set pieces,  we never hit a team on the break the way they do us, the team looks drained, fitness and sharpness is lacking, is it even confidence? Didn't Lambie get a hypnotist in once?

It frustrates the hell out me, that every bloody week I go with false hope, my old man says "in all the years I've been watching Thistle, they never fail to let you down" how true.

But you know what?  I can't make Dundee but I've got a half day off work planned for the first leg of the play off, I'll be there the second leg and I'll be up renewing my season ticket for more punishment next season.

C'mon Thistle let's finish the last 3 games on a high, I don't want to go to Inverness, Falkirk or Greenock next season

 

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Just watched the MFC highlights. Thistle could have/should have been 3 up before 'Well scored with the kind of goal you see getting scored against us almost week in week out. It's no longer heartbreaking, it's just the way it is, unfortunately.

The big question now is what will Archie try to get this team of losers to do at Dundee: hold out for a draw and hope that St Johnstone don't lose against County? Soak up the pressure and try to hit them on the break? We are incapable of soaking up any amount of pressure, and we are incapable of hitting anybody on the break. It seems to make no difference who starts who doesn't, who comes on as a sub.

So, what do we do? Anybody thinking of heading to Perth to cheer on St. Johnstone? That might actually be more helpful than sitting through what gets dished up at Dens.

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Well I for one hope we make 11th and win the play off.....relegation is a disaster.... I said at the start of the season we would finish 11th it was clear early on 

im waiting for all those who stood by Archie to stand up for him now ....he should have gone in December.....we are a very poor team, very poor 

major changes needed in the summer 

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On the positive, we don't actually need to score another goal to stay up. Providing Ross don't beat Saints, Saturday doesn't matter. After that, 0-0 in both play-off games could see us stay up on penalties. That said, it would rely on a fragile defense recording 2 clean sheets which looks highly unlikely.

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1 hour ago, javeajag said:

Well I for one hope we make 11th and win the play off.....relegation is a disaster.... I said at the start of the season we would finish 11th it was clear early on 

im waiting for all those who stood by Archie to stand up for him now ....he should have gone in December.....we are a very poor team, very poor 

major changes needed in the summer 

I'll have a go, obviously. Give me time to try to put an argument together.

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In fairness to Archie his starting line up was very effective for the first 45 minutes. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that when Barton was on the teamsheet that we would start 3-5-2 and I think the Motherwell manager did as well. Barton and McGinn were linking well on the right side and had we taken one of our chances it would have been a different outcome. Why Archie didn't change to 3-5-2 in response to Motherwell's sub I do not know.

 

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48 minutes ago, laukat said:

In fairness to Archie his starting line up was very effective for the first 45 minutes. I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that when Barton was on the teamsheet that we would start 3-5-2 and I think the Motherwell manager did as well. Barton and McGinn were linking well on the right side and had we taken one of our chances it would have been a different outcome. Why Archie didn't change to 3-5-2 in response to Motherwell's sub I do not know.

 

It’s not complicated .....he’s lost the plot 

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Some people on here obviously don’t remember the lower league years and I never ever want that to return. A lucky horrible deflection to keep is up and a turgid boring play off win every time so that next year we can try and fix it.

Have previous play off teams automatically been relegated the next year?

 Relegation would be a disaster. Agreed it’s been a terrible year  but no matter how it happens we need to stay up! 

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Uft.  That was a very typical performance last night.  Thought we looked decent in the first half and with a bit of luck we might have been ahead.  We were getting some joy down the right with Barton doing well, Doolan coming out and McGinn getting involved even though he can't kick it hard enough to get it off the ground for a cross.

 

Second half was about 3 mins old when I remarked that we would be in trouble if Archie didn't change our shape, and I'm sure 99% of those around me saw it the same.  Woefully exposed on that left side, since Edwards was doing his headless chicken routine feck knows where on the pitch, and Elliot was a waste at LB.  Gave me a horrible flashback of Edwards 'playing' on the left side against Aberdeen last game of last season - and their winger scoring an easy hattrick.  

 

A whole load of running around was going on last night.  Whether that equates to actually taking responsibility and fighting to win, I'm not sure.  Constant jockeying of the opponent instead of putting a foot in, Woods constantly turning through 355 degrees just to manage a backwards pass, the midfield with time, then spending 30 secs of last ditch passes just to get the ball back to where it started and launch it nowhere.  Frustrating.

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4 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

Stunned that there was an ArchiesArmy banner up in the John Lambie Stand last night. Almost as if our club culture rewards a lack of inspiration from our manager with admiration. His position has now become totally untenable.

Except that if he manages to keep us up via the play-off he makes it into the history books as one of our most successful managers ever.

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Is his position untenable? Does one awful season negate the fact that for 4 years we were on an upward trajectory? If he keeps us up (big if) he will be the third manager in our history to retain top league status for 5 or more seasons, that’s an amazing statistic particularly when you consider the top league used to be much bigger than it is now. 

 

Ive seen some trying to revert history by saying that we only finished in 6th because everyone else was rubbish, it we only stayed up because the league was weaker. I don’t buy that and don’t remember many calls from fans claiming that when we were doing better than we are now.

 

Im not saying Archie should stay simply asking if one bad season overrides all that has gone before.

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29 minutes ago, ClydebankJag said:

Is his position untenable? Does one awful season negate the fact that for 4 years we were on an upward trajectory? If he keeps us up (big if) he will be the third manager in our history to retain top league status for 5 or more seasons, that’s an amazing statistic particularly when you consider the top league used to be much bigger than it is now. 

 

Ive seen some trying to revert history by saying that we only finished in 6th because everyone else was rubbish, it we only stayed up because the league was weaker. I don’t buy that and don’t remember many calls from fans claiming that when we were doing better than we are now.

 

Im not saying Archie should stay simply asking if one bad season overrides all that has gone before.

To put it another way, assuming for now that he does keep us up this season (I know it's far from certain but for the sake of argument as it's perfectly possible), then to replace the present manager with "better", we'd have to find a manager with a record better (or at least comparable) to:

over 5 years experience, almost all in top division,

1 promotion,

no relegations, and

1 top 6 finish.

Such managers are not necessarily easy to find for a club like ours.

(Of course we could get relegated, which changes things somewhat!)

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1 hour ago, ClydebankJag said:

If he keeps us up (big if) he will be the third manager in our history to retain top league status for 5 or more seasons, that’s an amazing statistic particularly when you consider the top league used to be much bigger than it is now. 

Not true. That stat was based on finishing in the Top 10 5-seasons-in-a-row and his side have blown chance after chance to make it happen.

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I think if we survive Archie should continue but he needs to get someone else in to help with tatic's during the game and a large summer recruitment. Its difficult to see that it won't be us St Mirren and Hamilton in the bottom three at the end of next season so he needs to adapt.

If we go down then unfortunately I think that concludes the Archie years and we need to look for something fresh. Last time we went down from the premier we gave Murdo a season to get back up and the apathy that flowed from that decision made it almost impossible to return to the premier league quickly.

 

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