Club Statement Archie

[angry gaz]

20 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

You sound a bit angry, gaz.

Understatement of the season there.

The decision is about as  half hearted as an Adam Barton  tackle when we needed a Rowsen like cruncher. 

[watties wallies]

on the tuesday before the 2-1 hamilton game archie held an "open" meeting with the players asking for opinions on what had gone this season

 some of the "most experienced players"  thought we were at our best when we played a more attacking style of game

the full page article appeared in the saturday edition of the scottish daily mail (i only  buy the mail for its excellent tv guide)  

 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

15 hours ago, dunnikierjag said:

LIB you are one of the fans who's post I really enjoy reading but please answer me this Archibalds reluctance to use younger players i.e. Penrice, Nisbet and to a certain extent McCarthy, why will next season be any different. Also he signed a lot of this season flops, surely if they go so should he.

I think he's managed McCarthy fine. Andy is increasingly looking like a ninety minute midfielder these days. He used to tire noticeably when he started a game. Now anytime he's subbed it's purely for tactical reasons. Also I know McCarthy had a lengthy ban in the U20s earlier in the season. No idea if the ban precluded him playing for the full team but it would've affected his match fitness. I believe Andy is one of the few successes this season.

Nisbet went out on loan and I've no idea how much of an impact he made at Dumbarton, tho' a zero goal tally there doesn't exactly look promising. If Kevin had been knocking the goals in at Dumbarton since the turn of the year, while we could only manage around a dozen league goals in total, then I'd be seriously questioning Archie's judgement to a nail in the coffin level.

Not utilising Penrice after a successful loan spell ironically at Livingston is one for which I've no real answer.  I can only repeat what I said a few weeks back about him not exactly shining for the U20s in the few games I saw him play after his return. There could be a good handful of reasons why James didn't feature after a decent showing against Celtic. We'll maybe never know and hardly worth speculating now.

His signings this season have by and large been disappointing. Spittal may yet prove to be an exception but I can't say much positive about the rest. Turnbull I feel tho' was a reasonable loan signing but Cargill didn't match up as a replacement.  Knowing our status in the top flight so early on should've meant we'd get players we had targeted but Spittal aside the others all appeared second, third, fourth choices and the rest, Woods, Nitriansky, McGinn, basically emergency signings. So couple all that with previous signings not being effective, temper it slightly with the injury problems and returning players not performing and it's make your mind up time about Archie. I just feel he had enough credit in the bank previously to be given this chance. Add in circumstances at the Club make it much more difficult to replace the manager in a necessary timescale and I believe the Club has made the right decision.

Edited May 24, 2018 by lady-isobel-barnett

[jaf]

I agree with much of what you say LIB. I take one exception and I said it at the time - the best thing a Partick Thistle player can do for their reputation is be out injured for a while.  There was no indication before the injuries that the players returning from injury would dramatically alter our fortunes in my opinion.

I do however agree with the decision to retain Archie at this time, but he cannot afford a poor start to the season.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

12 minutes ago, jaf said:

I take one exception and I said it at the time - the best thing a Partick Thistle player can do for their reputation is be out injured for a while.  There was no indication before the injuries that the players returning from injury would dramatically alter our fortunes in my opinion.

That's true. I didn't tho' believe prior to returning that Abdul would be so poor to the point he looks done. I was expecting him to galvanise the team somewhat, but yes, not dramatically.

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, jaf said:

I agree with much of what you say LIB. I take one exception and I said it at the time - the best thing a Partick Thistle player can do for their reputation is be out injured for a while.  There was no indication before the injuries that the players returning from injury would dramatically alter our fortunes in my opinion.

I do however agree with the decision to retain Archie at this time, but he cannot afford a poor start to the season.

100% agree - This is the crux of our Season and it was a massive mistake by Archie - this in my opinion cost us relegation as we should have been bringing  in Players in January instead we thought getting Players back would turn it around   

I would declare upfront Ive never kicked a ball in my Life - but I did have a decent Athletics Career - the average after a long lay off to be back competiting for an Athlete is at least 6 Months - thats assuming your fully fit for training - now Athletes train a lot harder than Football Players - Im surprised there was so much store being put on injured players returning to bail our Season out - it was never going to happen - if I was Archie I would be asking questions of who was giving advise on timescales to get back to fitness -as in my experience its a long hard haul and thats for very foccussed and dedicated Athletes 

[chunky jag]

JJ - this is one of my major gripes from this season.

 

I am in no way shape or form an expert in this field, but I feel the management of the long term injuries, and the subsequent reliance on them coming back to save us, shafted us this season (amongst other things).

 

Lost count of the amount of jagzone interviews where Archie seemed perplexed Bannigan had broken down again, and stated they had been advised wrongly about waiting on him being operated on.

 

Archie puts a lot of stock into the sport science part, you often here im say things about how many miles players have in their legs etc, and how he consults junior mendes about who is fit and who needs a rest. But injuries are such a common thing for us that you could argue it's not working. It could however just be bad luck, we'll see this season. As previously stated by many - if we don't get off to a good start, the natives will be restless.

 

The statement was a bit strange. Patronising toward Archie a bit, whilst admittedly wholeheartedly supporting him. A bit aggressive with "win promotion or bust" messaging - I presume this is sell season tickets. But with no Maxi, and squad about to be ripped to shreds, it's a huge task to get us promoted right away, I'd be delighted with play offs this year, but fully expecting 5th-6th. Then make a push next year.

 

We'll  see how it goes, hope the loyalty pays off for the board, and I hope Archie can turn it around this year.

[Fawlty Towers]

1 hour ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

100% agree - This is the crux of our Season and it was a massive mistake by Archie - this in my opinion cost us relegation as we should have been bringing  in Players in January instead we thought getting Players back would turn it around   

I would declare upfront Ive never kicked a ball in my Life - but I did have a decent Athletics Career - the average after a long lay off to be back competiting for an Athlete is at least 6 Months - thats assuming your fully fit for training - now Athletes train a lot harder than Football Players - Im surprised there was so much store being put on injured players returning to bail our Season out - it was never going to happen - if I was Archie I would be asking questions of who was giving advise on timescales to get back to fitness -as in my experience its a long hard haul and thats for very foccussed and dedicated Athletes 

So basically you are saying we have a few hurdles ahead of us and someone should be for the high jump.

[partickthedog]

43 minutes ago, Fawlty Towers said:

So basically you are saying we have a few hurdles ahead of us and someone should be for the high jump.

No chance in the relay as Archie is not passing on the baton.

[Lenziejag]

5 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

That's true. I didn't tho' believe prior to returning that Abdul would be so poor to the point he looks done. I was expecting him to galvanise the team somewhat, but yes, not dramatically.

or that Barton and Keown would be shadows of last season

[Auld Jag]

The statement said rebuilding of the team got underway on Monday,further news by the end of this week.More news in the next 24 hours then.

[Winter of '63]

Last night I watched the video of our 5-0 victory against St Mirren in the League Cup at the beginning of the Season.  Erskine, Lawless, Doolan & Spittal were superb. I don't know if that's the Partick Thistle way...but it's definitely the way I would like Partick Thistle to play.  Stuart Bannigan was in the side...the only warning sign for the season which unfolded was Abdul Osman stupidly getting himself sent off.

Somehow we ended up getting relegated - St Mirren were promoted...I'm still trying to get my head round this and don't have even the remotest idea of what might happen next year.

 

[Blackpool Jags]

Archie's record of managing clubs in the Championship is rather awesome. Just been checking out his stats. 

[Auld Jag]

3 hours ago, Blackpool Jags said:

Archie's record of managing clubs in the Championship is rather awesome. Just been checking out his stats. 

Unbeaten.The  same next season .

[AndyMac]

11 hours ago, angry gaz said:

They have given Archie an impossible task. Asking a manager to re build and entire squad from scratch and get promotion in a season is ludicrous and unfair. If they had faith in him as a manager they would have given him two or three years to do so .

It's a big ask isn't it. Promotion in one season.

If the club bring in a new face in the very near future, say as a "Director of Football", I would hazard a guess that they've already decided to change the management.

A "wise old head" would be brought in as D.O.F , who would then be able to act as a caretaker manager, when Archie & Shaggy bite the dust, probably at the tail end of this year. A new rookie manager could then be under the wise counsel of the D.O.F.

I know I am stirring the pot. Nevertheless, a complete rebuild will take two seasons.

Archie & Shaggy should be given two seasons. If we get relegated next year they should be shown the door. If we are not challenging for promotion by November 2019 they should also be shown the door .

 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

6 hours ago, Fawlty Towers said:

So basically you are saying we have a few hurdles ahead of us and someone should be for the high jump.

What Im saying is that there was no chance that Players coming back from long term injury were going to be fit enough to help turn our Season around - this cost us our place in the Premiership  as we signed no one at Xmas - I would be having a serious think as to how such a basic flaw in a Sporting Organisation occurred - in Running its roughly two weeks for every week you are off to get back to fitness - this is when your in full training - not in rehab training 

[Jordanhill Jag]

7 hours ago, chunky jag said:

JJ - this is one of my major gripes from this season.

 

I am in no way shape or form an expert in this field, but I feel the management of the long term injuries, and the subsequent reliance on them coming back to save us, shafted us this season (amongst other things).

 

Lost count of the amount of jagzone interviews where Archie seemed perplexed Bannigan had broken down again, and stated they had been advised wrongly about waiting on him being operated on.

 

Archie puts a lot of stock into the sport science part, you often here im say things about how many miles players have in their legs etc, and how he consults junior mendes about who is fit and who needs a rest. But injuries are such a common thing for us that you could argue it's not working. It could however just be bad luck, we'll see this season. As previously stated by many - if we don't get off to a good start, the natives will be restless.

 

The statement was a bit strange. Patronising toward Archie a bit, whilst admittedly wholeheartedly supporting him. A bit aggressive with "win promotion or bust" messaging - I presume this is sell season tickets. But with no Maxi, and squad about to be ripped to shreds, it's a huge task to get us promoted right away, I'd be delighted with play offs this year, but fully expecting 5th-6th. Then make a push next year.

 

We'll  see how it goes, hope the loyalty pays off for the board, and I hope Archie can turn it around this year.

Ok first a lot of people in Football are asking questions about "Sports Science " and the reliance on stats via Body Belts - If you know what your doing you don't need laptops - Laura Muir one of the Worlds top Female Athletes trains along Maryhill Road - I pass her whilst out Running - she simply hammers it - no "body belt" now Fitness is in essence Running - thats it - its not complicated - the top Scottish Athletes who compete with the best in the World don't use Body Belts or stats - they also recover quicker from injuries - as for Miles in there legs - well its simple Fitness = Running as its Heart & Lungs - and if you want to be a good Runner - Run a Lot - maybe less body belts & laptops and more actual Running - just my view - however its worth noting Lambie used Athletics Coaches for Fitness Training - he didn't use people from Football - he recognised Athletes training methods got people fitter and faster - he even had Specialist Sprint Coaches - Lambie was way ahead of his time on a lot of levels 

[flashman]

7 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Laura Muir one of the Worlds top Female Athletes trains along Maryhill Road - I pass her whilst out Running - she simply hammers it - no "body belt".

...

Lambie used Athletics Coaches for Fitness Training - he didn't use people from Football - he recognised Athletes training methods got people fitter and faster - he even had Specialist Sprint Coaches - Lambie was way ahead of his time on a lot of levels 

Show-off

I have said on here previouly the fitness and sports science is not working as it should at the Club. Sprint coaches would be beneficial in my opinion, even if only for a day or two each week.

[angry gaz]

I think huge questions have to be asked over the general fitness and conditioning of our players last season. Never looked to me as if the team was as fit as it could be  not only in terms of stamina , the continual running out of puff the last quarter of the games, but also our strength and physicality. Seeing players like Devine and Barton being continually bullied and pushed around during matches wasn't all to do with them being pansies.

 

[Guest]

You are right on the fitness front. From the livvie game in the league cup to the livvie game at firhill they all ran out of puff with 20 mins to go.

We were discussing how how unfit the team was on the way home from the league cup game and that was a constant all season long. If people like us can see it you would hope archie and shaggy could see it.

I don't know what happens at our training, how hands on each day archie and shaggy are, if they see the fitness drop last part of the game and see goals being conceeded do they adress it or do they instruct the fitness coach to sort it and then he hasn't managed to fix it you'd have hoped archie or shaggy would have taken a grip of it themselves. Any which way, it's been a huge failing for us and a huge contributing factor to our relegation. My football enjoyment never progressed beyond amateur but like JJ i was into athletics, had coaches for stamina and body strength and they were always aware when i hadn't been doing enough training away from the track. More importantly I KNEW when i wasn't fit enough so the players must have known themselves they weren't fit enough this season so what did they do to try and sort it themselves. Of course you can over train and on the day of the race/game you are knackered. Either way we need a new fitness coach. I don't know the difference between a football and athletics fitness coach but if it was good enough for Lambie it's good enough for archie.

[Alan Murray]

I think Archie did bring Osman back too quickly. In the Dundee game(key game for us in the relegation) he played well first half but tired second and that was the main reason why we lost that game.
It was a huge blow to the player's confidence.  Osman should have been given some more under 20 games to get him up to speed.  The fact that woods was also struggling last 20 mins added to what happened in those last 8 mins. 

We really needed a big experienced center back in the window. That would have made the difference for me. Though maybe Archie had already spent his January window money on  McGinn and Woods?

 I hope Archie will give us a detailed explanation of his thoughts on the relegation and what went wrong. 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

JJ may well have a point. Christie being an exception as he, I think we'd all agree, is an athlete. Even then he needed two or three runs in the U20s. 

[flashman]

1 hour ago, Alan Murray said:

I think Archie did bring Osman back too quickly. In the Dundee game(key game for us in the relegation) he played well first half but tired second and that was the main reason why we lost that game.
It was a huge blow to the player's confidence.  Osman should have been given some more under 20 games to get him up to speed.  The fact that woods was also struggling last 20 mins added to what happened in those last 8 mins. 

We really needed a big experienced center back in the window. That would have made the difference for me. Though maybe Archie had already spent his January window money on  McGinn and Woods?

 I hope Archie will give us a detailed explanation of his thoughts on the relegation and what went wrong. 

The board say they have money available now, surely an extra £40-60k to get a centre back in would have been available if Archie asked for it. It would have been better value than getting relegated.

[Fearchar]

Presumably, poor fitness contributed to the poor disciplinary record, as tiring players tend to commit more fouls.

[MonehJags]

So Archie is the man in charge of re-building for a promotion drive this year.

My concern with that has already been mentioned i think. The Nitriansky signing last year scunnered me. He was plucked from obscurity, the only thing connecting him to football was his first name. The signings of Storey and Spital, both have shown in spells promise, especially the latter in the first few months of the season. Why have they fell away? To relate to the boards statement about the Thistle way, what is our way? Square balls across the half way line for an hour when we have possession? What im getting at is, we dont play to the squads strengths. People talking about Kenny Miller, he could score for fun in the championship, but not with us because we would play him out wide or at left back. The stats for last season are damning. The board have made their decision, we were in a stick or twist position and we have stuck. I still cant believe what I watched on Sunday, it was one of the biggest disappointments in a long time, even beating some of the numerous last minute sickeners in recent years. We should never have been getting beat off that team, im sure Hamilton wouldnt have and they are really poor too. Even if we had stayed up, I wouldnt have been looking forward to another year of that. Make no mistake the league next year is going to be extremely difficult but if we dont finish in at least a playoff position its got to be a failure. Partick Thistle will always have my full support so for the meantime i suppose its in Archie we trust again.

Edited May 25, 2018 by MonehJags