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Team rebuilding


Paukea
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If Keown, Barton and Storey all stay, and including the young players that remain on the Development Squad on the website, then I’d imagine we’d be looking for between 4-7 new signings. Obviously if they leave then 7-10. 

GK: Bell, Lennox, Sneddon, Stevenson. 0 MORE

RB/LB: Elliott, Penrice, Duncanson. 1 MORE

CB: O’Ware, McGinty, Keown, Barton. 0 MORE

CM: McCarthy, Bannigan, Eadie. 1 OR 2 MORE

W/AM: Erskine, Spittal, Fitzpatrick, Wilson. 2 MORE

ST: Doolan, Storey, 0 OR 1 MORE

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I don't really get the panic about Dundee Utd and Ross County making signings.  Who have we definitely missed out on?  I haven't seen them sign anyone and thought, oh no, we really don't want to be lining up against them.  

Edited by Paulo
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1 hour ago, jags on tour said:

I don’t understand how alot of the players had this release clause in their contracts so they were free to go, but we haven’t covered ourselves in case of relegation for the players on higher wages (Storey, Barton, Keown)? We apparently paid a fee for these three guys so I suppose just freeing them would have lost money but it’s leaving the squad in limbo as any of them could go if an offer came in, leaving us short of bodies, plus if they are still on higher wages it’s reducing our budget for this season. Did the board not think we could be relegated and didn’t think to plan ahead in the worst case scenario? then again the players might not have accepted that clause in their contract in the first place. 

We don't know for sure that the three under contract are still on a top division salary. For all we know the contract could be "reduced wage but we will allow you to move on subject to a satisfactory transfer fee".  More likely to be subject to a below valuation transfer/token fee.

It's maybe a tad ironic that Barton is the type of player we need the most. Cover for centreback, ball player in middle of a back three if/when we play that system and of course a ball playing midfielder. Emphasis being on type of player.

Storey simply wasn't as effective as Azeez when it came to using his strength and pace. I'm not sure if by just dropping down a level will be enough to make him a useful member of the squad. 

Keown would be fine in the Championship but he's the one who maybe we need the least.  That's assuming O'Ware is the real deal. We're more likely to be looking for a centreback who can play right back at ease or vice versa. If Keown could play right back at a decent level of proficiency that would fine.

 

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Dundee utd ave home gate 5,505

Our ave home gate 4,580.

Over the number of home gamesbthat is a sizable difference. Factor in that we had OF games last season and we won't this coming one.

So not double the attendance but much bigger than us over the season

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26 minutes ago, Thistleberight said:

Dundee utd ave home gate 5,505

Our ave home gate 4,580.

Over the number of home gamesbthat is a sizable difference. Factor in that we had OF games last season and we won't this coming one.

So not double the attendance but much bigger than us over the season

Where is the positivity. We will beat them both, twice, on our way to a cup double (and the Challenge cup as well)

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28 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

Where is the positivity. We will beat them both, twice, on our way to a cup double (and the Challenge cup as well)

I was only providing some detail to third lanarks post who was in turn responding to Lambies lost doo. FGS keep up.

 

How you can get a lack of positivity out of any of these posts is baffling. Loads of positivity from all three posters in many threads over the past month

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7 minutes ago, Thistleberight said:

I was only providing some detail to third lanarks post who was in turn responding to Lambies lost doo. FGS keep up.

 

How you can get a lack of positivity out of any of these posts is baffling. Loads of positivity from all three posters in many threads over the past month

Oops - a bit of whoosh moment, Thistleberight ?

I have had many also

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19 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

Someone on the FB page just posted a picture of Osman on his Instagram in a Thistle training shirt entitled "pre-season Day 2." Could some with Instagram perhaps verify if this is indeed true by checking his story? 

Just checked. It is indeed real. 

So, two scenarios:

1 - Osman has ran out of t-shirts and just happens to be wearing a Thistle training top to whatever pre-season he is indeed attending. 

2- Archie has invited him back to either train with the team, or indeed to perhaps look at resigning him. Osman's presence around the team last season was poisonous, and insubordinate (especially towards the end of the season); and this was very well documented. If that is indeed the case, Archie has proven himself as the moron he is, with a stubborn refusal to learn from his mistakes. It is absolute beggars belief if that is indeed the case. Barton, Keown, Storey, and Osman all back together again. This club is an absolute joke at the moment. 

Edited by Yellow & Redneck
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21 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

Someone on the FB page just posted a picture of Osman on his Instagram in a Thistle training shirt entitled "pre-season Day 2." Could some with Instagram perhaps verify if this is indeed true by checking his story? 

Assuming he still has board & lodgings up here it's not that unlikely he'll be training with us.  Not sure if clubs south of the border have started pre season so probably correct.

eta post crossed with your follow up post. Y & R.

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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3 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Assuming he still has board & lodgings up here it's not that unlikely he'll be training with us.  Not sure if clubs south of the border have started pre season so probably correct.

eta post crossed with your follow up post. Y & R.

Indeed could be the case. If it is however, I am stunned that Archibald and the club would even let him do that. Some very well-founded information about his behaviour last season would have made me think that he would not be welcome back.

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7 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

Just checked. It is indeed real. 

So, two scenarios:

1 - Osman has ran out of t-shirts and just happens to be wearing a Thistle training top to whatever pre-season he is indeed attending. 

2- Archie has invited him back to either train with the team, or indeed to perhaps look at resigning him. Osman's presence around the team last season was poisonous, and insubordinate (especially towards the end of the season); and this was very well documented. If that is indeed the case, Archie has proven himself as the moron he is, with a stubborn refusal to learn from his mistakes. It is absolute beggars belief if that is indeed the case. Barton, Keown, Storey, and Osman all back together again. This club is an absolute joke at the moment. 

You don’t half like to think the worst

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Just now, Lenziejag said:

You don’t half like to think the worst

We have just been relegated, the season is fast approaching, we have a drastic shortage of players, we can't get the worst of the players that our fabulous manager signed off the books, nor does any sane thinking human think we have even a small chance of actually winning the league this season. I'm being realistic. 

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14 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

We have just been relegated, the season is fast approaching, we have a drastic shortage of players, we can't get the worst of the players that our fabulous manager signed off the books, nor does any sane thinking human think we have even a small chance of actually winning the league this season. I'm being realistic. 

But it's sunny.  Look out of the window, if you get one.  

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22 minutes ago, Yellow & Redneck said:

We have just been relegated, the season is fast approaching, we have a drastic shortage of players, we can't get the worst of the players that our fabulous manager signed off the books, nor does any sane thinking human think we have even a small chance of actually winning the league this season. I'm being realistic. 

This post has nothing to do with the one I responded to, which was pretty much totally about Osman

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4 minutes ago, Fearchar said:

Re-hiring a skipper after he has captained a team to relegation would certainly be a novel approach to football management, but then, Thistle seems determined to reward lack of success. :wall:

Think there's a misunderstanding here. Osman may or may not be doing pre season training with us.  If he is that's a hell of leap to saying we're re-signing the man.

Thistle invariably extend training facilities to non contracted players we've no intention of signing/re-signing. Have done for as long as I can mind.  Even have boxers and other sportsmen training  with us on occasions. It's common courtesy and hardly unique amongst Scottish football clubs. Abdul Osman training with us isn't newsworthy.  

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On 23/06/2018 at 9:04 AM, KemoAvdiu said:

I’m sure I’ve seen you cast doubt on our medical/sports science team before. Genuinely fascinated to know what medical knowledge you have that qualified physiotherapists/sport scientists/doctors don’t? Maybe you should get in touch with the club and offer your services. Also keen to know what proof - aside from, shock horror, a football team and players being unlucky with bad injuries - you have of any inadequacies. 

That's a good question, KA. Although the club is very chary of releasing details, the match previews indicate a woeful record - well beyond the worst of professional football club statistics available elsewhere. The worst in the EPL is 5 injuries at a time (Burnley). Here's what I've managed to glean from the Thistle match previews, and even from these quotes, the statistics behind it are alarming. I've added a few edits and comments to clarify issues - all in squared brackets. Warning: reading this will not bring back pleasant memories. :-(

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5/7/17 Hibs away (3-1): "Yep, we’re pretty much at full strength now, the only absentees through injury will be Mustapha Dumbuya and Gary Fraser..."

8/8/17 St Johnstone away (0-3): “..Kris Doolan’s condition. The Jags’ striker was forced off with an injury during the first half at Easter Road on Saturday and is struggling with a hamstring problem...The physio’s initial thought was that he’d be out for seven to 10 days so missing the next couple of games, but he could have a chance for Friday’s game against Celtic as he wasn’t feeling too sore today…” [Doolan’s injuries continued until the end of the season.]

11/8/17 Celtic home (0-1): “Archie was also optimistic about Kris Doolan’s chances of making it for the game...He’s looking better. He trained yesterday and seems to have recovered so hopefully he’s recovered and can play a part…”

19/8/17 St Johnstone away (1-0): “There were two new additions for the squad which faced Celtic on Friday…We’re delighted to get them on board. We only got their medicals done on the Friday morning so we didn’t want to put them both in straight away. We put Conor in from the start though and he did really well.”

26/8/17 Aberdeen home (3-4): “We thought we were finished but it looks like Callum Booth is going to be out for around 12 weeks having suffered a bad injury to his knee last week in Perth – he’s torn his posterior knee ligament…[O]ther than Callum Booth, Gary Fraser and Mustapha Dumbuya we have just about a full squad to choose from.” [Booth’s injury was a long-term one. Fraser barely recovered in this season, after a long period out, before being injured again. Dumbuya was also more frequently absent through injury.]

9/9/17 Ross County away (1-1): “There is a bit of good news on the injury front actually. Gary Fraser has returned to training with the squad. it’s all non-contact just now so he’s nowhere near selection but even just having him back kicking a ball is such a good progression from where he was. Mustapha Dumbuya has also started running this week so hopefully he isn’t too far away either.”

15/9/17 The Rangers home (2-2): [No mention of injuries.]

19/9/17 The Rangers home (1-3): “Abdul is still struggling with his shoulder and he’ll go see a specialist this week to try and get to the bottom of the problem…and Tomas Černý is still 50/50 with his stomach muscle problem. Tomas has a chance but we’ll just need to wait and see.”

23/9/17 Hearts home (1-1): “I don’t think [the players] were anywhere near as fatigued as what we had expected. They had Wednesday off as usual and they’re now ready and raring to go. They’re in good spirit both mentally and physically.”

30/9/17 Motherwell away (3-0): [No mention of injuries.]

14/10/17 Kilmarnock home (0-2): “There hasn’t really been any change to our injury situation – it’s still pretty bad. All our injuries are long term and three of them are full backs so unfortunately things haven’t really eased over the break. The three full backs are still all out long term – Callum Booth, Mustapha Dumbuya and Christie Elliott. In fact Christie had surgery following a scan that showed significant ligament damage so he’s going to be four to six months which is a real blow. Then obviously you have Abdul Osman who is still recovering from surgery on his shoulder.”

“The one good bit of news is that Gary Fraser has now got two weeks of full training under his belt and will play in a Development League game next week so it looks like there might be some light at the end of that tunnel which is really positive.”

21/10/17 Dundee home (2-1): “Thistle boss, Archibald, noted how injuries have hampered his chances to find a good balance in the squad.

“If everyone was fit, this would be the best squad I’ve had by a fair bit but that’s not the case obviously. Last week we had eight senior players missing and any team would struggle with that many out. At the end of the day though, no matter how many were out, there were eleven on that pitch last week and not enough of them turned up.”

“We also got an update on Thistle’s long injury list ahead of the Dundee clash.

“Steven Lawless is back from illness, he’s trained well this week and Kevin Nisbet was out with a concussion from last Tuesday so he’ll be back in the squad. The rest haven’t changed.”

24/10/17 Hamilton Accies away (0-0): [No mention of injuries.]

28/10/17 St Johnstone home (1-0): [No mention of injuries.]

4/11/17 The Rangers away (3-0): “The injuries we’ve had put a bit of extra pressure on that busy December period but we’re hopeful that we might get one or two of them back at least for a portion of that period. ..The way our luck has been this season, I’d say we’re more likely to add to that [injury] list rather than take players off it!”

19/11/17 Hearts away (1-1): “So far Thistle’s season has been massively impacted by injuries and although none of the longer term casualties will return there is some good news.

“Chris Erskine returns to fitness after missing the last squad with a calf strain and we have a fitness test planned for Martin Woods who took a knock to his ankle. Other than that we still haven’t got any real progress to report on the longer term ones so they’re all still unavailable.”

2/12/17 Hibs home (0-1): “Abdul isn’t in with the group yet as we have to wait for the surgeon’s OK with regards to him having full strength in his shoulder. The good thing though is that he is now able to progress on the cardio front so, as soon as we get the OK in terms of strength it should be a quick process for getting him back involved and we’d probably then only be looking at a week or two.” [The first mention of cardiological problems: why should relieving strain on the upper body affect a professional footballer with a continuous programme of training adapted to suit?]

“We’re having to manage Kris Doolan a little bit at the moment as he is having a bit of trouble with his knee. That’s an ongoing issue though so we just need to balance it as best we can at this stage.” [Later, Kris had problems with a thigh muscle.]

“The other positive is that we will hopefully be looking at getting Stuart Bannigan back by somewhere in mid December which will give us a huge boost.” [In fact, possibly returning for season 2018/19.]

9/12/17 Kilmarnock away (5-1): “Stuart Bannigan, Mustapha Dumbuya, Abdul Osman, Christie Elliott and Callum Booth are all still out. Martin Woods was fit enough for the bench last week and will be available again on Saturday which is really the only positive.”

13/12/17 Motherwell home (3-2): “Injuries have featured heavily this season so Archibald was relieved not to have any additional issues to deal with. [By this stage, there seems to have been an expectation of injury.]

“In terms of our team news there are no changes in availability since Saturday so we should have the same squad of players available for selection.”

16/12/17 Dundee away (3-0): “Martin Woods made his first start for the Jags on Wednesday… [Woods was injured after signing, presumably including a medical examination, but before starting a game.]

“We’ll need to see how Martin Woods is doing. He went down with cramp in the second half and he was feeling sore earlier in the week but we’re hopeful that he can be involved. The problem with Martin is that he just hasn’t played enough football recently and those fitness levels take time to build up. We don’t want to push him too much and potentially lose him for longer as his experience is invaluable to us at the moment. Other than that we have the same players available as Wednesday.”

20/12/17 Celtic away (2-0): “We’re still hopeful of getting two or three players back from injury in the next month or so but the squad won’t change for Wednesday.”

23/12/17 Hamilton Accies home (1-0): [No mention of injuries.]

27/12/17 Aberdeen away (1-0): “Martin Woods got another good chunk of time on the pitch at the weekend which can only help him and the team. Overall, we have more options than we’ve had since August which is great.”

ome of Thistle’s long term injured players have begun training as they step up their return to first team action.

“We’ve had Abdul Osman and Mustapha Dumbuya back in full training for the first time over the last week and Callum Booth is doing ball work so we hope to have them back in contention for the end of January…so that’s like [three] new players potentially.”

30/12/17 Ross County home (2-0): “Archie though insists that, if he can get his injured players back, it will be like getting a handful of new players…

“The situation in terms of January signings is still the same really. The feedback at the moment from our medical department is that we are going to have three or four back for the first game of the year and maybe one more shortly thereafter which would mean we might not have to do anything [in the transfer market].”

“We’re hoping to get a couple back but we’ve not really tried them yet. The four extra we had missing on Wednesday didn’t train on Thursday and the five long term ones will obviously still be out and Gary Fraser will definitely be out injured. There is a chance for Erskine, Woods and Doolan though so we’ll just need to see how they train today.” [5 long-term injuries and 4 short-term ones halfway through the season suggests that something is wrong with the fitness and training regime.]

20/1/18 QoS away (1-2): “The great thing about getting out to Spain was that we got eight training sessions and a game for Abdul Osman, Callum Booth and Mustapha Dumbuya and then we got the game at the end of the week as well…[W]e’re hoping Christie Elliott isn’t too far away either which is excellent. I know it’s a cliché but it will be like having four or five new signings on board…We could feasibly go from only having one or two natural full backs to having four or five which will be absolutely brilliant.”

23.1.18 Celtic home (1-2): “We’re in a good position when it comes down to injuries with the majority of guys being back fit and available. Martin Woods, Stuart Bannigan and Gary Fraser will all miss out and Danny Devine is suspended as well – other than that we are good to go.” [3 injuries and 1 suspension were viewed as “good”.]

“One thing Archibald hasn’t had this season is options but, as his players gradually return to full fitness, that will hopefully change.”

27/1/18 St Johnstone away (1-3): “I think we’ve been into double figures in terms of the number of matches where we haven’t been able to fill our bench this season. That comes down to the fact that we simply have not had the players. Getting boys like Callum Booth, Mustapha Dumbuya and Abdul Osman back make an absolutely huge difference.”

3/2/18 Motherwell away (1-1): “[T]he main thing for us was getting the injured players back. You’ve already seen the impact Abdul Osman and Callum Booth have had and we also have Mustapha Dumbuya and James Penrice in the fold too. Christie Elliott is getting closer as well so that really feels like five or six new signings and makes our overall January a very positive one in that respect.”

“I said at the start of the season that this is probably one of the strongest squads we’ve had since we came up but it’s difficult to recognise that when they all get injured at the same time! As I said though, we’re getting back to a really healthy position now and hopefully that can only bode well for the rest of the season.”

“I’m delighted to say that we haven’t suffered any issues following last Saturday’s game so we should have pretty much the same full squad available which is brilliant because it means we should be able to field a really strong bench…” [“Delight” at not having an injury: injuries have become normalised. There is no mention of asking why.]

6/2/18 The Rangers home (0-2): “The January break was great for us but the month before that was also really positive in terms of us having guys back training with us who had recovered from injury…”

“[W]e now have like for like replacements in almost every position... It means if we do pick up knocks like we did ahead of Saturday’s game we have bodies to come straight in and replace them. We’ve not been in that situation all season…”

“With the worst of his injury problems behind him the gaffer was forced to shuffle his pack again on Saturday with Sammon, Lawless and Booth all missing. However the news was more positive ahead.

“Callum Booth and Steven Lawless both missed the game on Saturday with knocks so we’ll need to wait and see how they are ahead of kick off.” [Minor injuries are sufficient to keep players from playing.]

10/2/17 Celtic away (3-2): “Both Callum Booth and Steven Lawless missed Saturday’s trip to Fir Park as well as Tuesday night’s clash with Rangers, with Niall Keown also missing the Rangers game. Although Keown remains a doubt there was positive news on both Lawless and Booth.

“Hopefully we’ll have Steven Lawless and Callum Booth back but Niall Keown is still 50/50. Stuart Bannigan is still having issues and he’s away to see a specialist this week to get to the bottom of the issue that is persisting with his knee. We really want to get to the bottom of it because it’s almost two years the lad has been out now…”

[The relentless toll of injuries does not seem to let up, despite assurances that it has.]

17/2/18 Dundee away (2-1): “We’re in a really strong position this week. We’ve got Stevie Lawless coming back after he just missed out for the Celtic game…but other than that the only players who will still be out is Christie Elliott and Stuart Bannigan. Even Christie though has made real progress and played 45 minutes in a Development League Game on Tuesday so he is probably only a couple of weeks away from coming back into full contention after four months out with a fractured ankle.” [A “really strong position” seems to be having 2 players missing due to injury.]

24/2/18 Hamilton Accies away (2-1): “t’s looking pretty good to be fair. Christie Elliott is nearly there, he’ll play another development squad game against Celtic and hopefully get 90 minutes under his belt which should get him back into the squad for the following week….and Stuart Bannigan is still out. Other than that, we’re at full strength…”

10/3/18 Aberdeen home (0-0): “We’re ok on the injuries front – we’ve got a full squad to choose from except Stuart Bannigan…Conor Sammon picked up a knock on his ankle in the last game but has been back to training this week and should be fine.”

17/3/18 Hearts away (3-0): “We’re looking a bit healthier than we were last weekend in terms of Abdul Osman coming back into the squad. He pulled out on the day of the game last week as he was ill…but Dumbuya and Keown will hopefully train today (Friday) so could be in contention for the match.”

31/3/18 Hibs away (2-0): “Everyone apart from Stuart Bannigan is available so we have a strong set of players at our disposal.”

3/4/18 Ross County away (4-0): “The injury is one that Tomas has had before which makes it easier for us to handle. Overall, it’s our decision whether we’d want to risk him or not. He’s getting slightly better each day but if we do risk him we could lose him for a long period and we don’t want to be missing him for longer than necessary. It’s something that will involve close communication with our medical team and we’ll make a decision with the help of their advice.”

7/4/18 Kilmarnock home (0-1): [The team lined up without regular goalkeeper Cerny.]

21/4/18 Hamilton Accies home (2-1): [No mention of injuries.]

28/3/18 St Johnstone away (1-1): “We’re fully fit with the same availability as last week which is great and hopefully gives us a bit of consistency. We’ve also seen Stuart Bannigan back training over the last couple of weeks which is absolutely brilliant for him as he’s been out for a long time now.” [One long-term injury is the new “fully fit”.]

4/5/18 Ross County home (1-1): “[T]he manager gave an update in terms of the fitness of his player, including Callum Booth who was forced off in the last match.

“It’s much the same as last week on the fitness front and we have pretty much a full squad to pick from. Callum Booth picked up a wee issue in his groin on Saturday but we’ll give him every chance to be involved on Friday night.”

8/5/18 Motherwell home (0-1): “We picked up a couple of knocks after the County game so Baily Cargill is 50/50 after he got a gash in his leg that required stitches and young Andy McCarthy picked up a knock too so he is a bit of a doubt. We’ll give them every chance and see where we are come kick off.”

12/5/18 Dundee away (0-1): “We didn’t pick up any fresh knocks just a bit of fatigue from the guys who played the full game the other night… Callum Booth and Andy McCarthy both did a little bit of training today so we’re hopeful we might be able to get both involved on Saturday.”

17/5/18 Livingston away (2-1): “Chris Erskine was struggling with his hamstring last week which is why he only made the bench on Saturday but he’s got a good chance for Thursday and will hopefully be available. Niall Keown and Callum Booth should both come back into contention too.”

20/5/18 Livingston home (0-1): “We had a few injuries on Thursday night and we’ll no doubt have issues to contend with come Sunday. Chris Erskine didn’t make the bench on Thursday because of a hamstring issue and Christie Elliott only just made it so both of those guys are 50/50 for Sunday.  Osman and Keown also just missed out for the first leg so hopefully they will be involved for the final game.”

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There comes a time when failure, whatever the excuses or mitigating factors, cannot be allowed to continue: change is necessary, if only "pour encourager les autres". Perhaps bringing in effectively a new team will bring that change about.

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13 minutes ago, Fearchar said:

That's a good question, KA. Although the club is very chary of releasing details, the match previews indicate a woeful record - well beyond the worst of professional football club statistics available elsewhere. The worst in the EPL is 5 injuries at a time (Burnley). Here's what I've managed to glean from the Thistle match previews, and even from these quotes, the statistics behind it are alarming. I've added a few edits and comments to clarify issues - all in squared brackets. Warning: reading this will not bring back pleasant memories. :-(

So, word salad aside, and bearing in mind I didn't read it at all, and you've said the club don't release details, is the tl;dr version that it's the physios fault our players get kicked, twist knees/ankles, play 5s with their mates during summer?  And is the worst record elsewhere reeeally 5 injuries at a time?

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