Archie out - Now or Never.

[Auld Jag]

On ‎06‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 12:43 PM, sandy said:

We all hate losing, but ffs it’s only the first league game of the season and Archie is still building a new team.

Let’s see how things are looking by Christmas when we will have played other teams at least once.

 

15 hours ago, potty trained said:

And likewise, I suspect we could go on an unbeaten run til Christmas, get beat twice in January and the same faces would be back demanding he be sacked.

I would suggest that both Sandy and PT always stick up for Archie.We were getting told by them for all of last season that we would not go down because Archie would get us out of it.Everybody has their opinion but I would be surprised that if anybody who was a Thistle fan was not concerned at our form since we got into the top 6,16 months ago.We are on a downward spiral which at the moment shows no sign of ending.Big game this Saturday for both managers.

 

4 hours ago, allyo said:

Unfortunately on any scale of how football realistically works, I can't see that he has too long to turn it around. The evidence over the last 18 months is pretty damning. I think a change after one league game would be pretty outrageous, but a change after four or five, if things didn't improve, would not be.

This.

[potty trained]

51 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

 

I would suggest that both Sandy and PT always stick up for Archie.We were getting told by them for all of last season that we would not go down because Archie would get us out of it.Everybody has their opinion but I would be surprised that if anybody who was a Thistle fan was not concerned at our form since we got into the top 6,16 months ago.We are on a downward spiral which at the moment shows no sign of ending.Big game this Saturday for both managers.

 

This.

 

you can suggest all you want, I certainly don't always stick up for the manager. i'll criticise when it's merited. it's easy to throw criticism about from behind a keyboard, but I'd rather not look like a complete weapon and criticise him for standing with his hands in his pockets, for example.

 

i'm sure you can point me to my posts from "all of last season" where I stated we wouldn't go down. I should be proud you take such an interest. if that was a stance I took, I don't remember. If I did, I'm quite pleased I did. I'd rather be that person than one that sits greeting like some entitled spoilt wee brat demanding the manager be sacked after our first league game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Norgethistle]

Last season we heard give him till Xmas, then he was a good manager last year.

so how long this season or what is classed as the breaking point, mid table at Xmas? Bottom at Xmas, no wins in 1st 6 league games? 

 

Or or do we stick it out cause he done well in 2016-17 season 

[potty trained]

6 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Last season we heard give him till Xmas, then he was a good manager last year.

so how long this season or what is classed as the breaking point, mid table at Xmas? Bottom at Xmas, no wins in 1st 6 league games? 

 

Or or do we stick it out cause he done well in 2016-17 season 

Don't know mate, but I'm sure the Board know exactly what is required and so does the Manager and they will be reviewing it on a constant basis.

 

Some of the pish on here has been shameful and makes me glad we aren't fan owned. Imagine you're one of our new signings coming on here for a wee snoop around, reading the nonsense getting posted. folk need to get a grip of themselves.

[jaf]

On ‎06‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 12:45 PM, sandy said:

You can’t predict performance in tier 2 based on largely tier 1 results last season. It’s not even logical never mind sensible.

From one Sandy to another, this is nuts Sandy.

Your regime support is admirable and consistent, but you begin to lose credibility when the happy clappy stuff gets to the point that it lacks logic.

A few  games into last season, I said we would be relegated. We were. I predicted it based upon past events and watching the games. (I still supported Archie btw)

This season, I said we would lose to Ayr twice. We have. I made my predictions based upon past performances under the manager.

I can make predictions for the remainder of this season too, but that is all they are, predictions, and you will not like them, so I won't bother. But to say you cannot predict performance based upon past performance, regardless of the league, is actually the illogical and non sensible thing!

Doolan and Erskine looked done in later games last season. they still look done this season.

We looked a team lacking in motivation, and ideas, with only one (crap) style of play later in last season. So far this season we have looked the same.

The point isn't that the past can't help you predict the future, it is more how would anyone think the future is going to be any different to the past when the manager, tactics, and some of the underperforming players remain the same?

 

[Norgethistle]

1 minute ago, potty trained said:

Don't know mate, but I'm sure the Board know exactly what is required and so does the Manager and they will be reviewing it on a constant basis.

 

Some of the pish on here has been shameful and makes me glad we aren't fan owned. Imagine you're one of our new signings coming on here for a wee snoop around, reading the nonsense getting posted. folk need to get a grip of themselves.

The problem is we can’t truly judge any of the new players as (A) they don’t look fit (b) they seem to be out of position (C) they aren’t playing in a team more 11 individuals who don’t seem to have met each other before.

i feel sorry for any player trying to bed in with our current set up 

[jaf]

1 minute ago, potty trained said:

Don't know mate, but I'm sure the Board know exactly what is required and so does the Manager and they will be reviewing it on a constant basis.

 

Some of the pish on here has been shameful and makes me glad we aren't fan owned. Imagine you're one of our new signings coming on here for a wee snoop around, reading the nonsense getting posted. folk need to get a grip of themselves.

 

I suspect every fanbase and forum has its share of nonsense.

The point is - we are all hurting. Some express it in different ways. Some as you point out are gleeful when things go wrong as it allows them to say they told us so.  Some are blindly supportive until the end. (good on them, that's admirable). But some, probably the majority, are quiet, don't get involved in spats, remain supportive, but their faith is very much shaken. 

It takes all sorts and everyone is entitled to their response to an abject run of performances by the team we all support.

[potty trained]

5 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

The problem is we can’t truly judge any of the new players as (A) they don’t look fit (b) they seem to be out of position (C) they aren’t playing in a team more 11 individuals who don’t seem to have met each other before.

i feel sorry for any player trying to bed in with our current set up 

Pity then that so many on here are judging them.

[potty trained]

4 minutes ago, jaf said:

 

 

It takes all sorts and everyone is entitled to their response to an abject run of performances by the team we all support.

I always have and always will disagree with that statement.

 

Why is someone who thinks Archie is a shite manager because he folds his arms, or that not waving around the touchline like a nutter is the sign of a bad manager, entitled to an opinion?

 

I would argue they are exactly the folk who shouldn't be entitled to an opinion.

 

 

[Norgethistle]

2 minutes ago, potty trained said:

Pity then that so many on here are judging them.

My bigger concern is

- Why are our players so unfit, even last year ( and season before) we completely ran out of steam after 70 minutes, it’s worse this year, 2nd half Morton made us look semi-pro part timers.

- why do we continue to shoe horn guys into positions they can’t play instead of setting up tactics and formations that fit the squad ( again this isn’t just this season).

- Why not change our tactics, we still set up as if ATS and SOD will be bombing down the wing, with a fast Craigen, Erskine and Doolan piling into the middle. We don’t have these kind of wingbacks anymore, Erskine & Doolan are 6 years older, and no one else has movement. We are not adapting or not training our players to play that formation 

[Ruchillnomore]

To be fair PT having a different opinion doesn’t make you a spoilt brat and unless you are Archie’s love child or totally stupid then even you must realise there are now more and more posters than ever who think tha the managers time is up and that is not after one game that is after last season and the start to this season.   

All these people are not spoilt brats or hiding behind keyboards they just want what’s best for Partick Thistle and as far as I could see a large proportion of fans on Saturday thought that meant a change of manager now not at Christmas as that would be financial suicide for the club. 

[jaf]

1 minute ago, potty trained said:

I always have and always will disagree with that statement.

 

Why is someone who thinks Archie is a shite manager because he folds his arms, or that not waving around the touchline like a nutter is the sign of a bad manager, entitled to an opinion?

 

I would argue they are exactly the folk who shouldn't be entitled to an opinion.

 

 

Ahhhh PT, the same could be said about so many walks of life!

They are entitled to it, and the more ridiculous it is (as the example you give certainly is), the less credibility they will have from their peer group, a non-entrenched group who make up their own minds. 

 

 

[jaf]

4 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

My bigger concern is

- Why are our players so unfit, even last year ( and season before) we completely ran out of steam after 70 minutes, it’s worse this year, 2nd half Morton made us look semi-pro part timers.

- why do we continue to shoe horn guys into positions they can’t play instead of setting up tactics and formations that fit the squad ( again this isn’t just this season).

- Why not change our tactics, we still set up as if ATS and SOD will be bombing down the wing, with a fast Craigen, Erskine and Doolan piling into the middle. We don’t have these kind of wingbacks anymore, Erskine & Doolan are 6 years older, and no one else has movement. We are not adapting or not training our players to play that formation 

A relation to a player who joined this summer has said the level of fitness training and the fitness of the guys far surpasses where he has been before.

I think its a mental problem more than a physical one (with a few exceptions)

[Norgethistle]

7 minutes ago, potty trained said:

I always have and always will disagree with that statement.

 

Why is someone who thinks Archie is a shite manager because he folds his arms, or that not waving around the touchline like a nutter is the sign of a bad manager, entitled to an opinion?

 

I would argue they are exactly the folk who shouldn't be entitled to an opinion.

 

 

Being a shite manager is not being able to fill a bench 1 week into a league campaign, or not learning by his mistakes, or adapting his formations to suit the squad, or having a 2nd striker on the books, or being able to bring a RB in with 2 months notice, or having his team match fit enough to last 90 minutes without blowing out their arse after 60, or knowing high balls to a lone, isolated smallish striker isn’t going to work. 

I couldn’t care less if he folded his arms or done the can-can in the dugout, what I do care is not having a squad to start the season, having an unfit team, having no adaptation of tactics, and not learning from his mistakes.

 

Make no doubt about it were in the crap this season on early performances and size/quality/fitness of the squad we have.

[potty trained]

1 minute ago, Ruchillnomore said:

To be fair PT having a different opinion doesn’t make you a spoilt brat and unless you are Archie’s love child or totally stupid then even you must realise there are now more and more posters than ever who think tha the managers time is up and that is not after one game that is after last season and the start to this season.   

All these people are not spoilt brats or hiding behind keyboards they just want what’s best for Partick Thistle and as far as I could see a large proportion of fans on Saturday thought that meant a change of manager now not at Christmas as that would be financial suicide for the club. 

If there is an ever increasing number who want him sacked now, then they should take a step back and ask themselves what sacking your manager after 1 league game looks like to the outside world. and by the outside world I mean agents, prospective managers, prospective players and even current players

 

A new board, a new Chairman appointed, and their first real action is to sack the manager after one game, a day or two after the chief exec has come out and said the manager is the right man, everyone is working to the same goal, together as a team????

 

we would be crucified and no one would want to come near a club that treats the manager like that.

 

"yeah, we're going to give you the chance to right the wrongs, lets spend all summer building a plan that will get us there, we'll review it on an ongoing basis. Doolan and Erskine, spittal, storey, many others all taken a wage cut to stay and fight (maybe for the man they respect)".... nah **** it, get him out of here, now.

 

 

 

[potty trained]

8 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Being a shite manager is not being able to fill a bench 1 week into a league campaign, or not learning by his mistakes, or adapting his formations to suit the squad, or having a 2nd striker on the books, or being able to bring a RB in with 2 months notice, or having his team match fit enough to last 90 minutes without blowing out their arse after 60, or knowing high balls to a lone, isolated smallish striker isn’t going to work. 

I couldn’t care less if he folded his arms or done the can-can in the dugout, what I do care is not having a squad to start the season, having an unfit team, having no adaptation of tactics, and not learning from his mistakes.

 

Make no doubt about it were in the crap this season on early performances and size/quality/fitness of the squad we have.

so if he signed shite, as long as the bench was full, he's back to being a good manager? or is there an endless list of quality right backs and strikers that we've missed out on. if that's the case, it's not Archie's fault we didn't get them.

are you suggesting he signs players then adapts the formation to suit who he signs??? that's the most backward way of thinking I've seen. its the opposite!!!

again, you're right, he should just sign any old shite, just get the fckin numbers in archie....

name one team who is fully match fit the first week in august. no one is.

 

[Auld Jag]

1 hour ago, potty trained said:

 

you can suggest all you want, I certainly don't always stick up for the manager. i'll criticise when it's merited. it's easy to throw criticism about from behind a keyboard, but I'd rather not look like a complete weapon and criticise him for standing with his hands in his pockets, for example.

 

i'm sure you can point me to my posts from "all of last season" where I stated we wouldn't go down. I should be proud you take such an interest. if that was a stance I took, I don't remember. If I did, I'm quite pleased I did. I'd rather be that person than one that sits greeting like some entitled spoilt wee brat demanding the manager be sacked after our first league game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a forum the only way to comment is by using a keyboard.I have never commented on what Archibald does during the game as I couldn't tell you as I am watching the game and not the manager.I am not greeting like a spoilt brat demanding the manager be sacked,infact if you go to the Ayr at home game thread I said he would get to Christmas.If you want to quote me ,quote me correctly as I said anybody who supports Thistle should be concerned with our form since we got into the top 6,not just after 1 league game.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Auld Jag

[scotty]

I really admire your loyalty PT. Seems as though you will support Archie no matter what. For many who thought he had run his course with Thistle last season, to watch a continuation of the downward spiral is painful and we have only two alternatives. To go support someone else or to carry on supporting the Jags. You asking us to do that whilst keeping our mouths shut is probably just too much to expect.

[potty trained]

2 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

This is a forum the only way to comment is by using a keyboard.I have never commented on what Archibald does during the game as I couldn't tell you as I am watching the game and not the manager.I am not greeting like a spoilt brat demanding the manager be sacked,infact if you go to the Ayr at home game thread I said he would get to Christmas.If you want to quote me ,quote me correctly as I said anybody who supports Thistle should be concerned with our form since we got into the top 6,not just after 1 league game.

I didn't suggest or state you had done any of those things

[potty trained]

1 minute ago, scotty said:

I really admire your loyalty PT. Seems as though you will support Archie no matter what. For many who thought he had run his course with Thistle last season, to watch a continuation of the downward spiral is painful and we have only two alternatives. To go support someone else or to carry on supporting the Jags. You asking us to do that whilst keeping our mouths shut is probably just too much to expect.

and yet I posted this a couple of posts back:

you can suggest all you want, I certainly don't always stick up for the manager. i'll criticise when it's merited.

 

well, if you can't support a brand new team of players for 90 minutes and would rather take your ire out on the manager, then maybe this isn't for you. If that's how folk want to act after the first game of the league campaign, then these new signings must be thinking, what sort of club have I joined.

 

It seems folk forget the importance that was put on our last campaign for promotion and us being the 12th man. or maybe people only support when the team is winning, and would rather not get down and get their hands dirty when the team really needs them.

 

 

 

[Auld Jag]

2 hours ago, potty trained said:

 

you can suggest all you want, I certainly don't always stick up for the manager. i'll criticise when it's merited. it's easy to throw criticism about from behind a keyboard, but I'd rather not look like a complete weapon and criticise him for standing with his hands in his pockets, for example.

 

i'm sure you can point me to my posts from "all of last season" where I stated we wouldn't go down. I should be proud you take such an interest. if that was a stance I took, I don't remember. If I did, I'm quite pleased I did. I'd rather be that person than one that sits greeting like some entitled spoilt wee brat demanding the manager be sacked after our first league game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, potty trained said:

I didn't suggest or state you had done any of those things

You replied to my post stating these things, if they are not aimed at me why use it as a reply to my post?

[potty trained]

Just now, Auld Jag said:

 

You replied to my post stating these things, if they are not aimed at me why use it as a reply to my post?

Because its a forum, not a private conversation. everyone can read my posts... they were used as examples to support my current position/mood. if I was specifically accusing you of doing these things I would have been more direct in my wording.

[Auld Jag]

38 minutes ago, potty trained said:

and yet I posted this a couple of posts back:

you can suggest all you want, I certainly don't always stick up for the manager. i'll criticise when it's merited.

 

well, if you can't support a brand new team of players for 90 minutes and would rather take your ire out on the manager, then maybe this isn't for you. If that's how folk want to act after the first game of the league campaign, then these new signings must be thinking, what sort of club have I joined.

 

It seems folk forget the importance that was put on our last campaign for promotion and us being the 12th man. or maybe people only support when the team is winning, and would rather not get down and get their hands dirty when the team really needs them.

 

 

 

It isn't Thistle supporters who got the team relegated.Considering our results over the last16 months our supporters have shown they don't just support the team when their winning.

[Norgethistle]

10 minutes ago, potty trained said:

so if he signed shite, as long as the bench was full, he's back to being a good manager? or is there an endless list of quality right backs and strikers that we've missed out on. if that's the case, it's not Archie's fault we didn't get them.

are you suggesting he signs players then adapts the formation to suit who he signs??? that's the most backward way of thinking I've seen. its the opposite!!!

again, you're right, he should just sign any old shite, just get the fckin numbers in archie....

name one team who is fully match fit the first week in august. no one is.

 

There’s fully fit and then there’s having 14 outfit players available and none were matchfit.

The players he has do not work in that formation or is his tactic to either put a cross from distance to no one or tap it square repeatedly allowing the defense to get back before humping a high ball to an isolated striker, if his tactics are actually to do nothing with the ball before hoofing it to no one, then by Christ he owns that now.

If he can’t see that Spittal is not a wingback or that Melbourne is not a right back or Storer (If he’s still with us) is a DM then god knows.  

He released 18 players in May, he’s known since then when the league and league cup would start, yet we have no backup for CF or RB no DM for start of season. He is completely unprepared. 

[Colognejag]

Agree with Norgethistle on much of what he says. Like many I want Archie and the team to do well but it is worrying to say the least. Thin squad is no excuse for not putting in the effort. That is what the team has looked devoid of this season. I can only hope the lack of transfer activity is down to changing targets with the prospect of the Celtic money coming in... I will hold my breath on that one. Where was Mendes at half time vs Ayr? He normally has the subs doing the drills. The few subs we had looked to be just having a kick about...