AlwaysOutnumbered... Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 42 minutes ago, Thistleberight said: Ran out of likes. This is just more evidence of an apparent autocratic board at our club. This provides yet more evidence of a club in absolute chaos. Where will it end? Div 1 i fear 'Yet more evidence of a club in absolute chaos.' How are we in absolute chaos? We may be doing terribly in the league but off the park we are far from a club in absolute chaos unless I am completely mistaken. Even on the park, we have plenty of time to stave off relegation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 3 hours ago, jlsarmy said: Think the chairwoman also said we were going for promotion 3 weeks ago . Just Saying Ok give me the exact quote from the chairman and the exact date 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, jlsarmy said: Think the chairwoman also said we were going for promotion 3 weeks ago . Just Saying "We're not daft, we're not naive, we're not stupid. Until it becomes impossible, it's still possible." Hardly a claim that we're going to get promoted. Edited January 25, 2019 by Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, AlwaysOutnumbered... said: 'Yet more evidence of a club in absolute chaos.' How are we in absolute chaos? We may be doing terribly in the league but off the park we are far from a club in absolute chaos unless I am completely mistaken. Even on the park, we have plenty of time to stave off relegation. Lets speak at the end of the season,;see where we are then. Hopefully i'll be eating my words. Perhaps absolute chaos is a bit strong, there's room for it to be worse...... We are being fed a diet of nonsense about promotion, fan engagement, new training ground, non football staff preparing player reports, admissions of no scouting system, treatment of erskine, apparent pious attitude of the board towards the trust, the appointment of a manager based on his powerpoint presentation....chaos? Aye. Absolute chaos? On reflection i was a bit flippant and harsh Edited January 25, 2019 by Guest Poor use of thumbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 So to put it another way, Thistlebright, you may just have an underlying feeling that something at PTFC isn't quite hunky dory these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Jag said: "We're not daft, we're not naive, we're not stupid. Until it becomes impossible, it's still possible." Hardly a claim that we're going to get promoted. Sounds like one of Theresa May's lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: So to put it another way, Thistlebright, you may just have an underlying feeling that something at PTFC isn't quite hunky dory these days? Just a little incling m'lady Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Just now, AndyMac said: Sounds like one of Theresa May's lines. Theresa May........lines.........?????? White lines????? Theresa May does cocaine???? That explains an awful lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 10 hours ago, javeajag said: Jesus conspiracy theorists everywhere .....and not a little bitterness.... no it was stated they hoped the submit planning in January and if that happened it should be ready in June ....you were there and heard it but choose to misrepresent it define comerrcial rate ....what we pay now yes it has I havent misrepresented amything i asked specific questions on rental - I recieved vague responses ok lets run with the figure we pay just now - £140k - its not going to be less than that Can we afford this in Div 2 - Doubt it Does that include maintenance & repairs - most agreements dont This HAS to be on benchmark Commercial terms or HMRC are all over it so do I think we can afford it - No thats not conspiracy or bitterness - thats making a point at the AGM and on the Forum as for the Capital Costs - do I believe £7mn is a closer figure than the £4mn - yes even if we applied for planning end of Jan was it ever going to be ready for the Summer - The Civils - Landworks - infrastructure - 18 Months in my view So at present Three Black Cats are fully committed to the Training Ground Well Im fully committed to getting a 5000m qualifying time for the next Olympics - being committed is different from something happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 10 hours ago, javeajag said: No your saying it’s questionable and you don’t even know what it is yes your circulating rumours even though this week the chairman stated it was going ahead so she is clearly lying it’s just you stirring She didnt say it was going ahead She said the Weirs are still committed to it - thats very different from going ahead So no one is accusing anyone of lying But before Xmas it was going ahead - now its fully committed !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: I havent misrepresented amything i asked specific questions on rental - I recieved vague responses ok lets run with the figure we pay just now - £140k - its not going to be less than that Can we afford this in Div 2 - Doubt it Does that include maintenance & repairs - most agreements dont This HAS to be on benchmark Commercial terms or HMRC are all over it so do I think we can afford it - No thats not conspiracy or bitterness - thats making a point at the AGM and on the Forum as for the Capital Costs - do I believe £7mn is a closer figure than the £4mn - yes even if we applied for planning end of Jan was it ever going to be ready for the Summer - The Civils - Landworks - infrastructure - 18 Months in my view So at present Three Black Cats are fully committed to the Training Ground Well Im fully committed to getting a 5000m qualifying time for the next Olympics - being committed is different from something happening Make up your answers and ask your own questions you wanted specific cast iron assurances and would not accept the clear inference that the financial terms would be beneficial to the club even if we were relegated so it’s not going to be less than 140k .., prove it and provide some evidence you believe something doesn’t make it true in fact it makes it a belief and not a fact you have decided how ling it will take to complete the facility but provide no evidence just your opinion bitter bitter man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinhead Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Can't we just spend £1 million on a 4g/5g turf at Firhill and spunk the other £4-6 million on players? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 29 minutes ago, javeajag said: Make up your answers and ask your own questions you wanted specific cast iron assurances and would not accept the clear inference that the financial terms would be beneficial to the club even if we were relegated so it’s not going to be less than 140k .., prove it and provide some evidence you believe something doesn’t make it true in fact it makes it a belief and not a fact you have decided how ling it will take to complete the facility but provide no evidence just your opinion bitter bitter man What are you talking about "bitter bitter man" grow up It was stated that it wont be any more than our current rental which is circa £140K - Three Black Cats have to charge a Commercial Rate - therefore its safe to assume given the facilities will be similar to West of Scotland- hat the rent wont be much less than this - that,s not a Choice thing - your not allowed to deliberately run a Company at a loss or HMRC will be all over you - so bottom line is I dont think we can afford £140K if we drop a division and I asked about future proofing - Instead "trust us - it will be fine" and the 3 Black Cats will decide the terms - so I think thats an issue - if you dont - fair enough - but its an issue none the less 18 Months is an estimate based on 40 Years as an Engineer in the Construction Industry So rather than slag people off - tell me factually where Im wrong ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 9 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said: What are you talking about "bitter bitter man" grow up It was stated that it wont be any more than our current rental which is circa £140K - Three Black Cats have to charge a Commercial Rate - therefore its safe to assume given the facilities will be similar to West of Scotland- hat the rent wont be much less than this - that,s not a Choice thing - your not allowed to deliberately run a Company at a loss or HMRC will be all over you - so bottom line is I dont think we can afford £140K if we drop a division and I asked about future proofing - Instead "trust us - it will be fine" and the 3 Black Cats will decide the terms - so I think thats an issue - if you dont - fair enough - but its an issue none the less 18 Months is an estimate based on 40 Years as an Engineer in the Construction Industry So rather than slag people off - tell me factually where Im wrong ? So where does the £140k come from ? Then you make an ‘assumption ‘ ie you make it up it won’t be ‘£140k’ if we drop a division so that won’t apply that was stated the modular nature I’d the design was stated if it’s a few months late because if planning so what ? its a great thing for the club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, javeajag said: So where does the £140k come from ? Then you make an ‘assumption ‘ ie you make it up it won’t be ‘£140k’ if we drop a division so that won’t apply that was stated the modular nature I’d the design was stated if it’s a few months late because if planning so what ? its a great thing for the club What JJ is stating regarding deliberately under charging commercial rent to make a loss being a no go under HMRC rules is true, especially when there is any link between both companies which there is and which can be proven, it’s to stop tax avoidance and laundering That can’t be dropped if we go down unless the market value also drops. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 26 minutes ago, javeajag said: So where does the £140k come from ? Then you make an ‘assumption ‘ ie you make it up it won’t be ‘£140k’ if we drop a division so that won’t apply that was stated the modular nature I’d the design was stated if it’s a few months late because if planning so what ? its a great thing for the club The £140k was the figure being quoted when we rented West of Scotland - it cant be less than that -HMRC wont allow a deliberate loss As for a few months late - lets see what happens next before you start calling people names Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 16 minutes ago, Norgethistle said: What JJ is stating regarding deliberately under charging commercial rent to make a loss being a no go under HMRC rules is true, especially when there is any link between both companies which there is and which can be proven, it’s to stop tax avoidance and laundering That can’t be dropped if we go down unless the market value also drops. Not sure what you’re saying is strictly true , if the 3 black cats build the training ground within their Company with no loans or Commercial mortgage then any income from said training ground is deemed as Profit which obviously HMRC will tax . HMRC don’t set what commercial leases should or shouldn’t be . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted January 26, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: The £140k was the figure being quoted when we rented West of Scotland - it cant be less than that -HMRC wont allow a deliberate loss As for a few months late - lets see what happens next before you start calling people names I don't see why it can't be less. What W of S charge doesn't have a direct correlation as to what TBC will need to charge. The Weir acadamy will likely be using the traing ground too. So surely that will bring in revenue too? Edited January 26, 2019 by scotty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Not sure what you’re saying is strictly true , if the 3 black cats build the training ground within their Company with no loans or Commercial mortgage then any income from said training ground is deemed as Profit which obviously HMRC will tax . HMRC don’t set what commercial leases should or shouldn’t be . 3 Black Cats and it’s owner will have a liability for tax based on profit (including interest at bank) and cash at bank. Setting up and building this will be seen as an expense which will be deducted from the tax liability, but for it to be seen as legal the value charged in rent must be market value or higher. If Thistle for example we’re turning a million pound profit but 3 black cats were way below the tax threshold, then (legally) the training ground rent could be charged in excess of market value dropping the club from top tax rate to normal, and bringing 3 blackcat from excempt to normal, a clever accountant will work out both scenarios. One of the other reasons for not allowing to undercharge is VAT, the revenue man wants his slice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 39 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Not sure what you’re saying is strictly true , if the 3 black cats build the training ground within their Company with no loans or Commercial mortgage then any income from said training ground is deemed as Profit which obviously HMRC will tax . HMRC don’t set what commercial leases should or shouldn’t be . you will have outgoings in Running costs the income via the rental must match the outgoings or your running at a loss the capital spend has no bearing on the trading loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Jordanhill Jag said: you will have outgoings in Running costs the income via the rental must match the outgoings or your running at a loss the capital spend has no bearing on the trading loss Maybe I’m getting this wrong , I work in the Hospitality Trade , the landord sets the lease/rent Some of the running costs would be picked up by the Club ( Utilities , Rates etc , not sure about pitch relaying which we be a substantial outlay , don’t know who would pick up the tab for that ? Definately think there is a lot more to this than meets the eye and just my opinion probably more compatible to a Premier League set up with a higher turnover . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Norgethistle said: What JJ is stating regarding deliberately under charging commercial rent to make a loss being a no go under HMRC rules is true, especially when there is any link between both companies which there is and which can be proven, it’s to stop tax avoidance and laundering That can’t be dropped if we go down unless the market value also drops. I understand that point....the definition of a commercial lease amount however does not mean we have to pay £140k but an amount deemed not to be a commercial loss which could be a lower amount .... it will also depend on hoe TBC are treating the investment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 I think we can assume this has already been worked out - I don’t expect the contracts to be made public nor should they be - both to satisfy TBC and the Club as i understand it TBC could build the facility and charge the club £1 to rent it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 minutes ago, javeajag said: I think we can assume this has already been worked out - I don’t expect the contracts to be made public nor should they be - both to satisfy TBC and the Club as i understand it TBC could build the facility and charge the club £1 to rent it Providing there is no other running costs or they would be running an insolvent company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 26, 2019 Report Share Posted January 26, 2019 23 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: Providing there is no other running costs or they would be running an insolvent company Not necessarily....you need to see the company details etc and how they cover the loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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