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3 minutes ago, potty trained said:

But you keep looking at two payments and assuming that they are high, we therefore have the most clout. Ignoring the fact County have a sugar daddy supplementing the playing budget, for example. You can't make a statement based on considering a bit of the picture.

 

12 minutes ago, potty trained said:

And I'm saying that with every possibility that's nonsense as thats not all that defines the budget. You get that?

 

I'm also saying that existing championship teams had an advantage as they were turning over less players so could focus their search on only 3 or 4 players. You still up to speed?

OK, fair comment.

I think jlsarmy concern was that any financial advantage we have, through last seasons prize money and parachute payment is being squandered. This may or may not be the case.

Nevertheless, it is a fact that Thistle have a temporary  financial advantage that most other Championship teams do not enjoy.

 

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5 minutes ago, AndyMac said:

 

OK, fair comment.

I think jlsarmy concern was that any financial advantage we have, through last seasons prize money and parachute payment is being squandered. This may or may not be the case.

Nevertheless, it is a fact that Thistle have a temporary  financial advantage that most other Championship teams do not enjoy.

 

But what is the real advantage. 

 

Manager A has £1.5m to sign 15 players in 1 month.

Manager B has 300k to sign 3 players in 1 month.

 

Some would say Manager B is in the strongest position.

 

 

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1 hour ago, potty trained said:

But what is the real advantage. 

 

Manager A has £1.5m to sign 15 players in 1 month.

Manager B has 300k to sign 3 players in 1 month.

 

Some would say Manager B is in the strongest position.

 

 

That's true, it's all comparative. It could be argued from here to eternity.

The point regarding Thistle is;

We have been given a temporary cash injection with prize money and parachute payments.

We do not know if most, all, or any of this money has been spent or not.

If? It has been spent, some posters are concerned that it has been wasted, which is a fair enough comment to make, might be right, might be wrong.

My own view?

My gut instinct is that Archie has been given the shitty end of the stick and the money hasn't been provided or spent. The board are as tight as two coats of paint and are running down his and Shaggy's contracts to save a few quid. Also, It's a totally unrealistic to expect a complete team rebuild and promotion at the first attempt. I also suspect that some of the players have to have a long hard look at themselves, is this really their best shot? is that all they have to offer? Some of them should be plugged into the mains to "juice" them up a bit before a match. Too many are blowing hot and cold, pu-ssy footing about the place, real hot house flowers.

Furthermore, Archie kept us up for four seasons, it wasn't pretty, he has been under immense pressure all his managerial career. This is the first season that he will hopefully get the chance, to build a team that is more expressive and entertaining. But he's not getting that chance; is he? No such luxury, as I say, he's on the front line, holding the shitty end of the stick.

Personally, I would give Archie to the seasons end, see where we are then.

In the meantime, it would be good, if everyone connected with the club could pull together, it may be a cliche, but..........divided we are weak, together we are strong.

 

Edited by AndyMac
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7 hours ago, potty trained said:

Are all your posts on this topic going to be as tedious?

Only as long as you continue being so blinkered and sanctimonious. You are very good at putting out vague facts and figures then criticising and denouncing others for doing the same but which don't suit your take on the situation the club finds itself in.

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7 hours ago, potty trained said:

But what is the real advantage. 

 

Manager A has £1.5m to sign 15 players in 1 month.

Manager B has 300k to sign 3 players in 1 month.

 

Some would say Manager B is in the strongest position.

 

 

Depends on the respective skills of the managers....

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7 hours ago, potty trained said:

But what is the real advantage. 

 

Manager A has £1.5m to sign 15 players in 1 month.

Manager B has 300k to sign 3 players in 1 month.

 

Some would say Manager B is in the strongest position.

 

 

It doesn’t matter how you dress it up , don’t think any team in the league has recruited only 4 players , think Dundee Utd are nearer 20 players.

We should have had a financial advantage, most teams in the league haven’t even got a turnover of £1 million let alone the figures I quoted re prize money and parachute payments.

Whether Archie wasn’t given the funds to compete is another question or the money is getting ring fenced for something else is another debate .

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36 minutes ago, scotty said:

Only as long as you continue being so blinkered and sanctimonious. You are very good at putting out vague facts and figures then criticising and denouncing others for doing the same but which don't suit your take on the situation the club finds itself in.

Fantastic. 

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15 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

I must be missing something. Surely that “prize money” was to fund last seasons squad ?

They won’t get their prize money till the end of the season as they don’t know what position they will have finished in but it will determine what their budget will be for the following year ?

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Whether Dundee United and Ross County are minted has absolutely no bearing on whether Partick Thistle should be losing to Ayr, Inverness, Dunfermline and East Fife.

Archie didn’t have “a month” to sign 15 players. He had over 3 months from relegation to the window closing, a perfectly adequate amount of time which was not significantly disadvantaged relative to any other manager in the division.

It was his/the Club’s choice not to offer contracts to others in the relegated team, so that can’t then be their excuse for being at a disadvantage for having more business to do. This of course ignores that many other teams did about as much business as we did but just didn’t sign as much dross/crockery.

With a parachute payment it is reasonable to expect that the Club should have a significantly better chance of assembling a squad to go straight back up than it should in subsequent seasons. That’s literally the point of the parachute payment. It’s there to prevent the loss in revenue from relegation putting clubs at risk.

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14 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

They won’t get their prize money till the end of the season as they don’t know what position they will have finished in but it will determine what their budget will be for the following year ?

In this simplistic form of budgeting, If Roy MacGregor puts 250k into the transfer kitty, Ross County have a bigger budget than us and a bigger advantage than us. 

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15 minutes ago, potty trained said:

In this simplistic form of budgeting, If Roy MacGregor puts 250k into the transfer kitty, Ross County have a bigger budget than us and a bigger advantage than us. 

Do they ? , didn’t they get less prize money than us ?  in simplistic terms 

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9 hours ago, potty trained said:

But what is the real advantage. 

 

Manager A has £1.5m to sign 15 players in 1 month.

Manager B has 300k to sign 3 players in 1 month.

 

Some would say Manager B is in the strongest position.

 

 

neither manager is in the strongest position

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12 hours ago, potty trained said:

Of course away form has a bearing. But equally so does home form. Home form which is being ignored by those who want him sacked. Thanks though for completely assuming my thought process.

 

On our home performances we are promotion contenders, our away form is letting us down terribly. He obviously realises that. Realises how bad we are and took a huge step of playing for a clean sheet at all costs 0.0 draw on Friday. A bloody ridiculous error on the park cost us that. I'm disappointed he chose to be that defensive and for so long. But. The next 4 games give us a real opportunity to turn the corner. Realistically, there is no reason why we shouldn't be 4 unbeaten after them. 

 

Unfortunately in the real world you don’t separate Home and Away form to decide if your title contenders. Most people on here have made a decision on the overall form/ performances. To pick just the home form as the basis of your argument / defence is ridiculous. 

If Archie was that desperate for a point on Friday then maybe he should have stuck to the same tactics as the previous Saturday that way we might have scored a goal increasing our chances of a mighty draw.  So sad that he chose to be defensive smacks of desperation for a point rather than clear thought out tactics for a win against a poor side. 

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30 minutes ago, Ruchillnomore said:

Unfortunately in the real world you don’t separate Home and Away form to decide if your title contenders. Most people on here have made a decision on the overall form/ performances. To pick just the home form as the basis of your argument / defence is ridiculous. 

If Archie was that desperate for a point on Friday then maybe he should have stuck to the same tactics as the previous Saturday that way we might have scored a goal increasing our chances of a mighty draw.  So sad that he chose to be defensive smacks of desperation for a point rather than clear thought out tactics for a win against a poor side. 

This and this.

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1 hour ago, Ruchillnomore said:

Unfortunately in the real world you don’t separate Home and Away form to decide if your title contenders. Most people on here have made a decision on the overall form/ performances. To pick just the home form as the basis of your argument / defence is ridiculous. 

If Archie was that desperate for a point on Friday then maybe he should have stuck to the same tactics as the previous Saturday that way we might have scored a goal increasing our chances of a mighty draw.  So sad that he chose to be defensive smacks of desperation for a point rather than clear thought out tactics for a win against a poor side. 

Neither is your league position decide after 7 games ?

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5 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

Neither is your league position decide after 7 games ?

On this logic no football team should ever sack a manager until their final league placing is mathematically certain or at least until it’s mathematically impossible for a manager to meet the board’s set objective.

That is, as the kids say, “******* mental”. It’s like saying a car owner should wait until the front wheel has in fact fallen off before taking the car to the garage.

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16 minutes ago, Woodstock Jag said:

On this logic no football team should ever sack a manager until their final league placing is mathematically certain or at least until it’s mathematically impossible for a manager to meet the board’s set objective.

That is, as the kids say, “******* mental”. It’s like saying a car owner should wait until the front wheel has in fact fallen off before taking the car to the garage.

our archie is obviously a big fan of the new christy minstrels...: 'one wheel on my wagon, and i'm still rolling along...'

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Size of budget etc is irrelevant. The size of our budget did not make our right back charge towards his own goal against Ayr or our team keep hammering high balls up in the air against Livingstone in the play offs.  In both cases our size of budget should have meant we won both games.

People are busy here trying to outdo each other with clever stats and smart remarks. Meanwhile, the club is in a downward spiral.  Fans are starting to drift and the club badly needs something to change on the park. The home form v away form  is also not particularily relevant.  Generally speaking the team is not performing, the manager is not performing and the board look totally out of their depth.

Past records are not relevant, whatever the management have done for us in the past doesn’t matter. Right now they do not seem to have the ability to change things. The football we are watching is terrible. We have dropped down a division and playing against easier opposition but the exact same issues are being rolled out on here on the Monday morning.

Every time I come on here I read …. ‘another four games then we will see where we are’, then I’ll come on four weeks later and read… ‘another 4 weeks and we’ll see where we are’ and so on.  The club is adrift and rudderless and going nowhere.

Generally the players we have are good enough to get us promoted but they are making repeated mistakes and seem hamstrung by a lack of tactics.  They need direction and someone to tell them mistakes are unacceptable. We have a young lad who seems to get recognition everywhere as an up and coming talent but we don’t give him any game time. We have a full back who’s going through a bad spell so we give him the captaincy!

If we beat Ross County at the weekend everybody will be jubilant and we will keep rolling on but if we look at the big picture we are stale and going nowhere. Go back just a year and I would have headed to games against Hearts, Kilmarnock, Livingstone etc and been confident we could beat them. Now I wouldn’t even go for fear of the outcome. They all made good decisions that changed the direction of their clubs -  we need to do the same. The management team have served their purpose and it’s time to move on.   Forget about budgets and isolated wins. Who is enjoying what they are watching at the moment and why would anybody with the good of the club at heart want us to keep going the way we are?

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7 minutes ago, Legs Like A Spider said:

Size of budget etc is irrelevant. The size of our budget did not make our right back charge towards his own goal against Ayr or our team keep hammering high balls up in the air against Livingstone in the play offs.  In both cases our size of budget should have meant we won both games.

People are busy here trying to outdo each other with clever stats and smart remarks. Meanwhile, the club is in a downward spiral.  Fans are starting to drift and the club badly needs something to change on the park. The home form v away form  is also not particularily relevant.  Generally speaking the team is not performing, the manager is not performing and the board look totally out of their depth.

Past records are not relevant, whatever the management have done for us in the past doesn’t matter. Right now they do not seem to have the ability to change things. The football we are watching is terrible. We have dropped down a division and playing against easier opposition but the exact same issues are being rolled out on here on the Monday morning.

Every time I come on here I read …. ‘another four games then we will see where we are’, then I’ll come on four weeks later and read… ‘another 4 weeks and we’ll see where we are’ and so on.  The club is adrift and rudderless and going nowhere.

Generally the players we have are good enough to get us promoted but they are making repeated mistakes and seem hamstrung by a lack of tactics.  They need direction and someone to tell them mistakes are unacceptable. We have a young lad who seems to get recognition everywhere as an up and coming talent but we don’t give him any game time. We have a full back who’s going through a bad spell so we give him the captaincy!

If we beat Ross County at the weekend everybody will be jubilant and we will keep rolling on but if we look at the big picture we are stale and going nowhere. Go back just a year and I would have headed to games against Hearts, Kilmarnock, Livingstone etc and been confident we could beat them. Now I wouldn’t even go for fear of the outcome. They all made good decisions that changed the direction of their clubs -  we need to do the same. The management team have served their purpose and it’s time to move on.   Forget about budgets and isolated wins. Who is enjoying what they are watching at the moment and why would anybody with the good of the club at heart want us to keep going the way we are?

Superb post. Despite differing opinions on here everyone has the Jags at heart. Dont get up to firhill as often as id like but every game was terrible from us. If we dont initiate drastic change we will struggle to even stay in this league. No one wants that. Admired Archie as a playing ldgend but surely its overdue that we arest this alarming decline. A decline not just with the mince on the park but in attendances and ambition. Sad to see after the oltimism 2 years ago. Mon the Jags

On 9/29/2018 at 6:43 PM, jaggy said:

I’m in no way defending Archibald, but how many of the top 6  side were inherited by previous managers?

 

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1 hour ago, Legs Like A Spider said:

Size of budget etc is irrelevant. The size of our budget did not make our right back charge towards his own goal against Ayr or our team keep hammering high balls up in the air against Livingstone in the play offs.  In both cases our size of budget should have meant we won both games.

People are busy here trying to outdo each other with clever stats and smart remarks. Meanwhile, the club is in a downward spiral.  Fans are starting to drift and the club badly needs something to change on the park. The home form v away form  is also not particularily relevant.  Generally speaking the team is not performing, the manager is not performing and the board look totally out of their depth.

Past records are not relevant, whatever the management have done for us in the past doesn’t matter. Right now they do not seem to have the ability to change things. The football we are watching is terrible. We have dropped down a division and playing against easier opposition but the exact same issues are being rolled out on here on the Monday morning.

Every time I come on here I read …. ‘another four games then we will see where we are’, then I’ll come on four weeks later and read… ‘another 4 weeks and we’ll see where we are’ and so on.  The club is adrift and rudderless and going nowhere.

Generally the players we have are good enough to get us promoted but they are making repeated mistakes and seem hamstrung by a lack of tactics.  They need direction and someone to tell them mistakes are unacceptable. We have a young lad who seems to get recognition everywhere as an up and coming talent but we don’t give him any game time. We have a full back who’s going through a bad spell so we give him the captaincy!

If we beat Ross County at the weekend everybody will be jubilant and we will keep rolling on but if we look at the big picture we are stale and going nowhere. Go back just a year and I would have headed to games against Hearts, Kilmarnock, Livingstone etc and been confident we could beat them. Now I wouldn’t even go for fear of the outcome. They all made good decisions that changed the direction of their clubs -  we need to do the same. The management team have served their purpose and it’s time to move on.   Forget about budgets and isolated wins. Who is enjoying what they are watching at the moment and why would anybody with the good of the club at heart want us to keep going the way we are?

Good post . Sums up the present situation at the club accurately.  No doubt the usual suspects striving to be the daddy of the forum will be along to pick holes in your spot on assessment.

Edited by mulguy jag

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37 minutes ago, Legs Like A Spider said:

Size of budget etc is irrelevant. The size of our budget did not make our right back charge towards his own goal against Ayr or our team keep hammering high balls up in the air against Livingstone in the play offs.  In both cases our size of budget should have meant we won both games.

People are busy here trying to outdo each other with clever stats and smart remarks. Meanwhile, the club is in a downward spiral.  Fans are starting to drift and the club badly needs something to change on the park. The home form v away form  is also not particularily relevant.  Generally speaking the team is not performing, the manager is not performing and the board look totally out of their depth.

Past records are not relevant, whatever the management have done for us in the past doesn’t matter. Right now they do not seem to have the ability to change things. The football we are watching is terrible. We have dropped down a division and playing against easier opposition but the exact same issues are being rolled out on here on the Monday morning.

Every time I come on here I read …. ‘another four games then we will see where we are’, then I’ll come on four weeks later and read… ‘another 4 weeks and we’ll see where we are’ and so on.  The club is adrift and rudderless and going nowhere.

Generally the players we have are good enough to get us promoted but they are making repeated mistakes and seem hamstrung by a lack of tactics.  They need direction and someone to tell them mistakes are unacceptable. We have a young lad who seems to get recognition everywhere as an up and coming talent but we don’t give him any game time. We have a full back who’s going through a bad spell so we give him the captaincy!

If we beat Ross County at the weekend everybody will be jubilant and we will keep rolling on but if we look at the big picture we are stale and going nowhere. Go back just a year and I would have headed to games against Hearts, Kilmarnock, Livingstone etc and been confident we could beat them. Now I wouldn’t even go for fear of the outcome. They all made good decisions that changed the direction of their clubs -  we need to do the same. The management team have served their purpose and it’s time to move on.   Forget about budgets and isolated wins. Who is enjoying what they are watching at the moment and why would anybody with the good of the club at heart want us to keep going the way we are?

Fantastic post

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1 hour ago, Ruchillnomore said:

Never mentioned league position but seeing as you mention it on current form we are not winning the league. However would be delighted to be proved wrong 

Title contenders isn’t a reference to league position ? 

You are right - on current form we aren’t winning the league. I am not sure how any points you need to get into the playoffs. On current form we will get 54 points

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