Maestro Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 TBH Archies downfall started when we made the top 6 games after that the players had downed tools we had very poor results but had the pre season break and after we retuned we never stepped it up and the downward spiral stemmed from there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 7 hours ago, Gnome on the Bing said: Desperately sad at how things have ended for Archie and Shaggy -- two hard-working, courteous individuals who went about their job in a diligent and dignified manner. I wish them every success for the future. Out of likes for the day, but consider your post liked! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 25 minutes ago, Maestro said: TBH Archies downfall started when we made the top 6 games after that the players had downed tools we had very poor results but had the pre season break and after we retuned we never stepped it up and the downward spiral stemmed from there Not just in the above post, but generally we always seem to lump the 5 games of our top 6 campaign together as if they were all an unmitigated disaster. In the first we went toe to toe away to Hearts in a thrilling 2nd half display. Having taken the lead, we were the victims of a dreadfully unlucky penalty award which cost us both a goal and a player. Undaunted we grabbed the lead again with 10 men and fended off waves of attack, before eventually sheer weight of numbers paid off for Hearts and they got their equaliser. However, no one in the Thistle support that day would have accused the team of "downing tools" in securing that draw at Tynecastle. The second is too painful to recall in detail, but for 80 minutes we put in one of the best performances against either half of the Old Firm I have been privileged to witness at Firhill and it so nearly resulted in a memorable victory. Maybe some naivety and/or exhaustion at the end, but no sign of any downed tools. Third game, St Johnstone took a 1-0 lead and shut the game down as only they can do. We huffed and puffed but could not find a way back into it. I will not claim that it was in any way inspiring stuff, but it was not a totally dreadful effort. Fourth and fifth games, absolutely admit that we had run out of energy and of fit bodies and were no match for a rampant Celtic and Aberdeen who were able to use top quality fringe players to give us a doing. Not sure if this was downed tools, rather than being a bit short of tools and not having any strength left to wield those we had. In assessing Archie and Shaggy's period of decline, I would always go to the start of the next season. It was disappointing enough (and I in no way dispute that) without arbitrarily bringing in a couple of unrepresentative post-competitive games from the end of the season before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Rubble Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, partickthedog said: Not just in the above post, but generally we always seem to lump the 5 games of our top 6 campaign together as if they were all an unmitigated disaster. They were. 43 minutes ago, partickthedog said: In assessing Archie and Shaggy's period of decline, I would always go to the start of the next season. It was disappointing enough (and I in no way dispute that) without arbitrarily bringing in a couple of unrepresentative post-competitive games from the end of the season before. That's where the rot started, so why are you ignoring these games? The Aberdeen game was hideous, Amoo replaced by a 17-year old after 30 minutes who has never been seen again because he's still trying to find his way out of Scott Wright's back pocket. Edited October 7, 2018 by Barney Rubble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabbath Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 10 hours ago, Lenziejag said: I certainly wouldn’t want McNamara. He destroyed Utd and York City after abandoning us. Me thinks you may have other issues with Jackie. Jackie built the team that Archibald got and embarrassingly took the credit for, I understand where you're coming from, I've stood and listened to the "My second team is" crowd when a certain half of the old firm come a calling. I'm not suggesting for one moment your "Loyalties" are not 100% behind the Jags, perhaps a little bit equality & diversity training would not be fully wasted. Remember when the "Rats" Archibald & Paterson abandoned us for the Arabs?. Just Remember McNamara moulded and without doubt built the team that won promotion. Sadly I don't think this Board have the guts to get Jackie back, just for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but lets seek a proper manager, preferably one who hasn't been to Largs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That 1 jags fan Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, sabbath said: Me thinks you may have other issues with Jackie. Jackie built the team that Archibald got and embarrassingly took the credit for, I understand where you're coming from, I've stood and listened to the "My second team is" crowd when a certain half of the old firm come a calling. I'm not suggesting for one moment your "Loyalties" are not 100% behind the Jags, perhaps a little bit equality & diversity training would not be fully wasted. Remember when the "Rats" Archibald & Paterson abandoned us for the Arabs?. Just Remember McNamara moulded and without doubt built the team that won promotion. Sadly I don't think this Board have the guts to get Jackie back, just for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but lets seek a proper manager, preferably one who hasn't been to Largs. First flat earth now this! Surely everyone can see through the trolling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb1876 Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 40 minutes ago, sabbath said: Jackie built the team that Archibald got and embarrassingly took the credit for I didn't see that anywhere and didn't realise that Archie had taken the credit without referencing the job McNamara (and McCall) had done. Can you link or highlight where he did that as it's a pretty damming statement, in the (albeit limited) interviews I had seen back when Archibald was appointed, he was always pretty open about the team spirit, the professionalism and the quality players previous managers had brought in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted October 7, 2018 Report Share Posted October 7, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, sabbath said: Me thinks you may have other issues with Jackie. Jackie built the team that Archibald got and embarrassingly took the credit for, I understand where you're coming from, I've stood and listened to the "My second team is" crowd when a certain half of the old firm come a calling. I'm not suggesting for one moment your "Loyalties" are not 100% behind the Jags, perhaps a little bit equality & diversity training would not be fully wasted. Remember when the "Rats" Archibald & Paterson abandoned us for the Arabs?. Just Remember McNamara moulded and without doubt built the team that won promotion. Sadly I don't think this Board have the guts to get Jackie back, just for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but lets seek a proper manager, preferably one who hasn't been to Largs. If Jackie McNamara was given the job and was at all successful, he would be off again, at the very first opportunity, to feather his own nest. Hire him again? You must be joking! Once bitten. Twice shy. Sabbath; I'll tell you something for nothing. It was Archie & Shaggy that won the Championship for Thistle. No one else. Furthermore, in the years to come, when all the dust has settled and the history of our great club is recalled, no one will remember your precious little "Jackie". However, the names of Archibald and Paterson will always ring out as true Thistle legends, rightfully taking their place, to stand shoulder to shoulder, with the very best of them. Edited October 8, 2018 by AndyMac 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 15 hours ago, Big Col said: I wonder how the players are feeling, knowing that they had a hand in the manager getting the bullet. Some of the more poorer performers must be really worried for their future. Rightly so. Whoever takes over, I hope there's a substantial clear-out sooner than later, though ending some contracts might be an obstacle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 8 hours ago, Maestro said: TBH Archies downfall started when we made the top 6 games after that the players had downed tools we had very poor results but had the pre season break and after we retuned we never stepped it up and the downward spiral stemmed from there The downing of tools was really remarkable; a complete change in the entire team's conduct and what looked like effort, and that was continuing right up until Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 3 hours ago, AndyMac said: If Jackie McNamara was given the job and was at all successful, he would be off again, at the very first opportunity, to feather his own nest. Hire him again? You must be joking! Once bitten. Twice shy. Sabbath; I'll tell you something for nothing. It was Archie & Shaggy that won the Championship for Thistle. No one else. Furthermore, in the years to come, when all the dust has settled and the history of our great club is recalled, no one will remember your precious little "Jackie". However, the names of Archibald and Paterson will always ring out as true Thistle legends, rightfully taking their place, to stand shoulder to shoulder, with the very best of them. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 7 hours ago, sabbath said: Me thinks you may have other issues with Jackie. Jackie built the team that Archibald got and embarrassingly took the credit for, I understand where you're coming from, I've stood and listened to the "My second team is" crowd when a certain half of the old firm come a calling. I'm not suggesting for one moment your "Loyalties" are not 100% behind the Jags, perhaps a little bit equality & diversity training would not be fully wasted. Remember when the "Rats" Archibald & Paterson abandoned us for the Arabs?. Just Remember McNamara moulded and without doubt built the team that won promotion. Sadly I don't think this Board have the guts to get Jackie back, just for the reasons I mentioned earlier, but lets seek a proper manager, preferably one who hasn't been to Largs. I have no other issues with him. And I believe part of your post is just a touch discriminatory and a little bit offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Even if McNamara was the bees knees of a manager it would take from now till the end of the season to draw up a watertight contract to protect the Club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyprusjag Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Sabbaths naked hatred for Archie Is all consuming,,even to the point of making up fake news about Archie claiming all the credit.There never was any arrogance or conceit in Archie’s demeanour yet Sabbath would defend a man who tried to screw Thistle. Everyone is entitled to better themselves and there is no problem with that.I would have loved if Kris Doolan had got a big money move.I would have been sorry to see him leave but happy that his talent and attitude had reaped rewards, but Macnamara revealed his greed knows no bounds and his subsequent career tells you something.However he’s made his money so he should worry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandyellowallover Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 I think it's fair to say that Archie was one of the main reasons that we were promoted the season we were. He may have taken on McNamara's team but he made them much more solid and better placed for promotion. When McNamara departed we had went 6 games without a win away from home, had that sort of form continued then who knows what would have happened. Archie then won 6 out of the next 8 away games (home form was pretty uniform between both managers). We conceded 19 goals in 20 games under McNamara and 8 in the remaining 16 games under Archie. McNamara undoubtedly built a very good team, but Archie deserves credit for getting the best out of it. There's enough to give him a hard time over without making up stuff from when he took over. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auld Jag Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 9 hours ago, redandyellowallover said: I think it's fair to say that Archie was one of the main reasons that we were promoted the season we were. He may have taken on McNamara's team but he made them much more solid and better placed for promotion. When McNamara departed we had went 6 games without a win away from home, had that sort of form continued then who knows what would have happened. Archie then won 6 out of the next 8 away games (home form was pretty uniform between both managers). We conceded 19 goals in 20 games under McNamara and 8 in the remaining 16 games under Archie. McNamara undoubtedly built a very good team, but Archie deserves credit for getting the best out of it. There's enough to give him a hard time over without making up stuff from when he took over. This. Plus we had 5 years in the premiership and finished 6th our highest position in 35 years, during that period. There is no doubt that last season and the beginning of the league campaign this season has been poor. Unfortunately this meant they had to go. But lets not undestimate the job that both Archibald and Paterson done before last season. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partickthedog Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 On 10/7/2018 at 9:17 PM, Barney Rubble said: They were. That's where the rot started, so why are you ignoring these games? The Aberdeen game was hideous, Amoo replaced by a 17-year old after 30 minutes who has never been seen again because he's still trying to find his way out of Scott Wright's back pocket. Hi Barney. Looks like we are drawing different conclusions from the same data so we will have to agree to differ. Moving on, if you are going to use the Top 6 games as a stick with which to beat Archie, I am going to use them as a shield with which to defend Christie. He put in a fair humdinger of a right wing cross to set up Kris Doolan to score against Sevco! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Christie has been excellent in some top level games, as right back. his form at the moment is poor and his confidence seems very low, so it is frustrating that we can't give him a break due to lack of cover. Personally I think captaincy might not be helping. But I won't go along with those who write him off as not good enough. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 2 hours ago, allyo said: Christie has been excellent in some top level games, as right back. his form at the moment is poor and his confidence seems very low, so it is frustrating that we can't give him a break due to lack of cover. Personally I think captaincy might not be helping. But I won't go along with those who write him off as not good enough. Agree with that Al. I said a few weeks ago that the captaincy may be a weight on his shoulders that he doesn't need. He isn't playing well and could use a break. As you say though that isn't possible. The funny thing is, if I have ever had a criticism of Elliott it has always going forward i.e. his delivery. I've always thought that defensively he was sound, and this is clearly where he is struggling. The new manager should have his own ideas about the captaincy and hopefully Christie will get back to his best once he comes in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 It will be interesting; we had players who were being written off as "manager's favourites"; Christie and Blair Spittal probably the most obvious. If a new manager gives these guys a chance it may just give them the boost that they need. Or others will inevitably say, they'll be found out. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 I think the captaincy issue is fairly straightforward. Christie is maybe the only obvious candidate. Doolan and Erskine are unlikely to feature for anything like 90 minutes in the majority of games. O'Ware might well have got the nod and the only remaining creditable candidate is Bannigan. If Elliott is indeed burdened with the additional pressure then the exact same thing could happen to Banzo. My choice would be Stuart but for the time being he's probably, and quite naturally, got enough on his mind already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 32 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: I think the captaincy issue is fairly straightforward. Christie is maybe the only obvious candidate. Doolan and Erskine are unlikely to feature for anything like 90 minutes in the majority of games. O'Ware might well have got the nod and the only remaining creditable candidate is Bannigan. If Elliott is indeed burdened with the additional pressure then the exact same thing could happen to Banzo. My choice would be Stuart but for the time being he's probably, and quite naturally, got enough on his mind already. I think the 'burden' of being captain is being over exaggerated. I cant see how it would affect a players performance either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 36 minutes ago, MonehJags said: I think the 'burden' of being captain is being over exaggerated. I cant see how it would affect a players performance either. Maybe; there's no way of knowing. It isn't meant as an excuse. But I reckon it depends very much on the person; some will thrive, others may find it a burden. My own (maybe unfair) suspicion is that Christie Elliott was always a player who'd been written off by many, and thrived on proving people wong, and exceeding expectations to justify his place in the team. He didn't have that much to live up to, but he played well, to the point that in my opinion he was often the best player on the park, over more "esteemed" colleagues. Being an automatic choice, and captain, changes that completely. Expectations are higher, pressure is greater, maybe it doesn't suit him. This is pure speculation, based on virtually nothing; but so is a lot of stuff on this site so I'm just about okay with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowenBoys Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Nice article https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/sport/sport-opinion/a-brutal-break-up-partick-15257834 and an interesting suggestion for new manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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