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Thistle v Dundee Utd


Jag
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Another dispiriting performance unfortunately, despite the late rally, which at least demonstrated spirit. The defence, particularly out wide, is all over the shop. The problem doesn't even appear to be due to poor individual performances - it's more fundamental and systemic. The defensive system appears to have broken down, with players seemingly confused as to their positioning. Given that we were playing a conventional 4-4-2 for the majority of the first half, this is extremely disconcerting. Add to this the fact that we were regularly outnumbered in the middle of the pitch -- this is always a danger with 4-4-2 -- which partly explains why Bannigan kept getting caught on the ball. And finally, in attack we were pedestrian and predictable. Same old, same old. We were a bit better in the second half, with the switch to 4-3-3 causing them some problems, and Mbuyi-Mutombo and Quitongo at least offered something a bit different when they came on, but it was far too little, far too late. 

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1 hour ago, Gnome on the Bing said:

Another dispiriting performance unfortunately, despite the late rally, which at least demonstrated spirit. The defence, particularly out wide, is all over the shop. The problem doesn't even appear to be due to poor individual performances - it's more fundamental and systemic. The defensive system appears to have broken down, with players seemingly confused as to their positioning. Given that we were playing a conventional 4-4-2 for the majority of the first half, this is extremely disconcerting. Add to this the fact that we were regularly outnumbered in the middle of the pitch -- this is always a danger with 4-4-2 -- which partly explains why Bannigan kept getting caught on the ball. And finally, in attack we were pedestrian and predictable. Same old, same old. We were a bit better in the second half, with the switch to 4-3-3 causing them some problems, and Mbuyi-Mutombo and Quitongo at least offered something a bit different when they came on, but it was far too little, far too late. 

Well summed up.Yet another very bad display and Bannigan had his worst game since coming back. Kept getting caught on the ball which resulted in their second goal.If our future manager was watching this I wonder if he had a change of heart as we were absolute rubbish until just before we scored.

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The first job of the new boss is get this shower fit - and try teach a defence to actually put pressure on the forward or better still a tackle in. The number of times we either back off or don’t close crosses down quick enough is frightening- and has been an issue for a couple of years (as has a notable lack of fitness).

Neilson must be thanking his lucky stars of his choice this week !

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, One t in Scotland said:

In a ( long ) list of all time worst players Storey must be near the top. Staggering just how bad he is.

Have to agree. Really don't see what he offers the team. Gets the ball,runs down the wing and loses the ball or crosses the ball that very rarely gets to a Thistle player.

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Unfortunately,  Archie's legacy of an unbalanced squad will hamstring the club at least until the next transfer window regardless of who the new manager is.  Dundee Utd looked a very slick outfit for the first hour - by a distance the best team I've seen at Firhill this season and I suspect they will win the League comfortably.  The last half hour was encouraging though, with the eleven who finished the game possibly our strongest side...though there were two decent crosses from the right which Doolan might have finished...he's hardly had a decent pass or cross all season.

Banzo didn't have a great day and culpable for their second goal. We need a better option at right back...and I hope never to see Storey play for Thistle again - his failure to play a simple pass to put either Slater or Bannigan clean through was a particular low point.

I enjoyed booing Adam Barton.

There is real potential both at the Club and in some of our players but it is vital to get the right choice for the new manager to get a positive reaction. The turnout from Thistle fans for what should have been the most attractive home fixture of the season is worrying  - personally, I think we need someone fresher and more inspiring than Jim McIntyre or any of the Usual Suspects. 

Edited by Winter of '63
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19 minutes ago, Winter of '63 said:

I hope never to see Storey play for Thistle again - his failure to play a simple pass to put either Slater or Bannigan clean through was a particular low point

That was pretty much the same point I gave up on Storey. The guy is making basic errors and needs for his own sake to find a new club.

Spittal is not reliable enough to be a first team starter. In my opinion he also needs to leave.

I also think Doolan needs dropped. He looked lost today and waiting on someone to play a pass and just now we don't have a working midfield capable of playing the passes he needs.

Quitongo reminded me a little of Steven Craig in our promotion season, he constantly harasses the defenders sometimes risking bookings or worse. We need more of that type of player. Quitongo looks to have pace, skill and aggression (by god we've missed players with aggression!), we should really get him on a longer contract and hope he stays fit.

Bannigan was poor today but he is another that needs to be on a longer deal.

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4 hours ago, Z88 said:

We were lucky not to be 4 down at half time. Fair play to Britton and Allison for trying to change things around with formation changes and early sub's.  Better effort in 2nd half with Quitongo and McCarthy doing well. Spittal and Storey no where near good enough. Not a chance we'll be anywhere close to playoffs without some new faces.

with the greatest of respect, i know thats a ah1te thing to start with but i do mean it, forget play off and promotions for now. This group of players need to wake up to the fact that we are deep deep in a relegation battle. Even this early in the season. Thats a simple fact. All fans of other clubs and players for that matter will be checking out result every single saturday to make sure we have been beaten to take the pressure off. Yes we are that bad just now. Herculean effort needed by everyone to get out of the undeniable mess we have been "led" into. Shockingly disgusted and disappointed tonight. Been a horrendous 18 months.

 

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1 hour ago, flashman said:

Disappointed it was pretty much the usual suspects from the start. I would have liked to see 4 or 5 changes to the starting line up, its not like Britton and Allison had anything to lose. Looked better after the subs. Storey had me tearing my hair out - had enough of him :help:

Don't have enough hair to pull out. But I agree with you re Storey and starting 11.

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38 minutes ago, sabbath said:

After taking over the successful team that Jackie build, its incredible what a shower of bufters Archibald built to replace them with even takes any notice of the sabbath. Most recognise him as the bellend that he is. 

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On 10/13/2018 at 6:48 PM, Gnome on the Bing said:

Another dispiriting performance unfortunately, despite the late rally, which at least demonstrated spirit. The defence, particularly out wide, is all over the shop. The problem doesn't even appear to be due to poor individual performances - it's more fundamental and systemic. The defensive system appears to have broken down, with players seemingly confused as to their positioning. Given that we were playing a conventional 4-4-2 for the majority of the first half, this is extremely disconcerting. Add to this the fact that we were regularly outnumbered in the middle of the pitch -- this is always a danger with 4-4-2 -- which partly explains why Bannigan kept getting caught on the ball. And finally, in attack we were pedestrian and predictable. Same old, same old. We were a bit better in the second half, with the switch to 4-3-3 causing them some problems, and Mbuyi-Mutombo and Quitongo at least offered something a bit different when they came on, but it was far too little, far too late. 

This is a good summary. Agree with the "dispiriting" aspect, but there was cause for encouragement from a committed performance from Andy McCarthy who really impacted on the game , and especially from Jai Quitongo  who led the line with passion and determination and plenty of (just about) controlled aggression. I would also argue that Mutombo has been somewhat unfortunate to have his pitch time curtailed recently.

I would start next week with the team that finished against Dundee Utd, with Spittal and Doolan going to the bench and Storey going out of the squad altogether to be replaced by Fitzpatrick. There would also be a strong argument for starting Fitzpatrick in place of Erskine.

Banzo is one of my favourite players. Have to accept that he had a poor game today, but I am sure that he will be self-critical, learn his lessons and come on strong again.

Edited by partickthedog
grammar
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11 hours ago, marcia blaine said:

Bannigan and Slater were both guilty of being ponderous on the ball in central midfield, time and again. That’s where we lost the game, I feel. Neither side had someone with a bit of dig to dictate the play but DU had enough cohesion moving the ball forward that they could capitalise on it.

Ntwabe appears to have been signed to fulfil that role but was rotten against Dunfermline and seems to be out of the reckoning.

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7 hours ago, partickthedog said:

This is a good summary. Agree with the "dispiriting" aspect, but there was cause for encouragement from a committed performance from Andy McCarthy who really impacted on the game , and especially from Jai Quitongo  who led the line with passion and determination and plenty of (just about) controlled aggression. I would also argue that Mutombo was been somewhat unfortunate to have his pitch time curtailed recently.

I would start next week with the team that finished against Dundee Utd, with Spittal and Doolan going to the bench and Storey going out of the squad altogether to be replaced by Fitzpatrick. There would also be a strong argument for starting Fitzpatrick in place of Erskine.

Banzo is one of my favourite players. Have to accept that he had a poor game today, but I am sure that he will be self-critical, learn his lessons and come on strong again.

Agree with this-the new signings and the boys like Fitzpatrick and Andy would/did inject some life into the side. The players who appear to have been dragged down over the last 18th months with us are needing a bit of time out of the team. How Storey can take a starting place when Fitzpatrick is on the bench is beyond me. We need hunger.

Edited by westertonjagfan
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I have been saying for a while 433 probably most suits the squad. 

The defence virtualkuboicks itself through lack of alternatives. 

A midfield 3 of Banzo McCarthy and slater. 

And aidan matumbo both wide in the front 3  with quitongo through the middle. 

 

 

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Don’t want to be too hard on Gerry on Scott as managing the first team is not their normal job but they really did hand the game to United with starting 4-4-2.

Both Banzo and Slater are too soft to play in the centre together and the formation meant they did not get the same help from Erskine closing down players. Both Chris and Spittal have both been played wide before and been infective so really they have no excuses on this.

What the hell does Andy McCarthy need to do to start a match? We are short of dig in midfield and he provides that so why not play him??? Could not believe his name was not in the starting 11.

Slater loses his man for the first goal and makes a half-hearted attempt to get back and block the cross after. Elliott is not close enough to the goal scorer to get a block in from the cross.

Second goal Banzo caught in procession but United closed him down very quickly all first half so should have been aware this was happening. Again got to question why the two in charge did not change this.

Really though United should have scored more and that’s the really worrying thing.

 

 

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1 hour ago, jaf said:

I have been saying for a while 433 probably most suits the squad.

To play 4-3-3 requires very fit players capable of pressing the opposition high up the park and recover possession before the opposition midfield swamps your own. Whilst you are correct that we have players that match those positions we don't have the fitness or organisational levels

From what I've seen I think we need to go 4-5-1 to protect the defense and start to restore some confidence through not losing. Hopefully that keeps us winning points and in the pack until we get players fit enough to play other formations.

Yesterday Allison and Britton started 4-4-2 which was a step towards being more solid but had not realised United play a 3-5-2 so we were still outnumbered in the areas we are struggling the most with. Second half we started to get more into the game due in part to McCarthy, Bannigan and Slater forming a midfield 3 to match United's midfield 3, even then we struggled in wide areas until Quitongo started to not allow the outball from their back 3 and then when United subbed Fyvie for Barton we started to dominate as Barton couldn't cope with the pace and intensity of our midfield. We also managed to Penrice high enough up the park that he was intercepting their outball and we kept them hemmed into their own half.

 

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1 hour ago, jaf said:

I have been saying for a while 433 probably most suits the squad. 

The defence virtualkuboicks itself through lack of alternatives. 

A midfield 3 of Banzo McCarthy and slater. 

 And aidan matumbo both wide in the front 3  with quitongo through the middle. 

  

 

I'd agree with this to an extent. We definitely have the personnel to play a solid three in the middle, and it would be nice to have forwards in closer proximity to each other. The only concern I would have is that we're already struggling defensively on the flanks. I'm not sure that we have wide attackers capable of tracking back for 90 minutes from an even more advanced position, so we would need to be confident that our central three have been sufficiently coached in a 4-3-3 system to be able spot and cover potential overlaps. In other words, although I've seen both systems employed successfully -- i.e. cover provided by  wide attackers dropping back or by the midfield shuffling across -- but I think the latter solution is better suited to our squad. 

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