Thistle v Dundee Utd

[Gnome on the Bing]

Just now, Gnome on the Bing said:

I'd agree with this to an extent. We definitely have the personnel to play a solid three in the middle, and it would be nice to have forwards in closer proximity to each other. The only concern I would have is that we're already struggling defensively on the flanks. I'm not sure that we have wide attackers capable of tracking back for 90 minutes from an even more advanced position, so we would need to be confident that our central three have been sufficiently coached in a 4-3-3 system to be able spot and cover potential overlaps. In other words, although I've seen both systems employed successfully -- i.e. cover provided by  wide attackers dropping back or by the midfield shuffling across -- but I think the latter solution is better suited to our squad. 

Say what you like about Paton - he provided brilliant cover for his full-back when playing in central mid. 

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, jaf said:

I have been saying for a while 433 probably most suits the squad. 

The defence virtualkuboicks itself through lack of alternatives. 

A midfield 3 of Banzo McCarthy and slater. 

And aidan matumbo both wide in the front 3  with quitongo through the middle. 

 

 

Don't disagree as long as we play with width, which isn't usually associated with that formation. Mutombo and Fitzpatrick with Storey as back up would provide that.

Problem with any formation we play is we have no real ball winners in midfield. Defense is exposed and Banzo, plus McCarthy to a lesser degree, will pick up too many yellows attempting to play in the "Osman" role.

[Jaggernaut]

42 minutes ago, laukat said:

To play 4-3-3 requires very fit players capable of pressing the opposition high up the park and recover possession before the opposition midfield swamps your own. Whilst you are correct that we have players that match those positions we don't have the fitness or organisational levels

From what I've seen I think we need to go 4-5-1 to protect the defense and start to restore some confidence through not losing. Hopefully that keeps us winning points and in the pack until we get players fit enough to play other formations.

Yesterday Allison and Britton started 4-4-2 which was a step towards being more solid but had not realised United play a 3-5-2 so we were still outnumbered in the areas we are struggling the most with. Second half we started to get more into the game due in part to McCarthy, Bannigan and Slater forming a midfield 3 to match United's midfield 3, even then we struggled in wide areas until Quitongo started to not allow the outball from their back 3 and then when United subbed Fyvie for Barton we started to dominate as Barton couldn't cope with the pace and intensity of our midfield. We also managed to Penrice high enough up the park that he was intercepting their outball and we kept them hemmed into their own half.

 

Isn't Archie's insistence on 4-5-1 despite the terrible defence that we have (and had last season) largely responsible for our current predicament?

[laukat]

1 minute ago, Jaggernaut said:

Isn't Archie's insistence on 4-5-1 despite the terrible defence that we have (and had last season) largely responsible for our current predicament? 

Archie player 4-2-3-1 and for the main it was effective as long as he had fit overlapping fullbacks who could also defend and 2 central defensive midfielders who could fill in and protect the back 4. We no longer have the fullbacks to play this nor the defensive midfield options until Brice is fit and on form

4-5-1 is different in that you don't require overlapping fullbacks you need a solid midfield 3 and 2 wide midfield/ wingers. You also need a forward that works a defence . The idea being that you are more compact from front to back making us defensively harder to break down but not leaving huge distances to the lone striker so able to counter quickly through the middle.

Scotland played that system very to relative success under Craig Brown when qualifying for the 98 world cup. It can be quite defensive but you do tend to grind out results. So when you're in a position of freefall which we are close to it has its merits. As Craig Brown showed if you want to attack its relatively easy to change 4-5-1 to 3-5-2 or 4-4-2 if you need to chase a game.

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, westertonjagfan said:

Agree with this-the new signings and the boys like Fitzpatrick and Andy would/did inject some life into the side. The players who appear to have been dragged down over the last 18th months with us are needing a bit of time out of the team. How Storey can take a starting place when Fitzpatrick is on the bench is beyond me. We need hunger.

You know that Archibald has gone?

I don’t think that Fitzpatrick had made it back from his Scotland duties 

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, Alan Murray said:

Don’t want to be too hard on Gerry on Scott as managing the first team is not their normal job but they really did hand the game to United with starting 4-4-2.

Both Banzo and Slater are too soft to play in the centre together and the formation meant they did not get the same help from Erskine closing down players. Both Chris and Spittal have both been played wide before and been infective so really they have no excuses on this.

What the hell does Andy McCarthy need to do to start a match? We are short of dig in midfield and he provides that so why not play him??? Could not believe his name was not in the starting 11.

 

Maybe he isn’t showing up well enough in training. I get that he gets stuck in, but I am not sure he is fit enough to play 90 mins. He seems to be puffed after about 5 mins and doesn’t track back enough. Mind you neither do some of the others.

[joekea]

12 hours ago, flashman said:

Disappointed it was pretty much the usual suspects from the start. I would have liked to see 4 or 5 changes to the starting line up, its not like Britton and Allison had anything to lose. Looked better after the subs. Storey had me tearing my hair out - had enough of him 

Wholeheartedly agree. A defeat was on the cards the minute the team was announced. Sorry to say that Doolan, Erskine, Spittal and Storey must be dropped immediately otherwise we are in real do-do!

[fenski]

3 hours ago, jaf said:

I have been saying for a while 433 probably most suits the squad. 

The defence virtualkuboicks itself through lack of alternatives. 

A midfield 3 of Banzo McCarthy and slater. 

And aidan matumbo both wide in the front 3  with quitongo through the middle. 

 

 

Last game I was at was Dunfermline away. I thought 3-4-3 formation would make sense given our strengths and weaknesses. We would need a proper defensive midfielder to shield the defence. If only Ntambwe could give us that.