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Thistle vs. Ayr


Jaggernaut
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We have been pathetic but I don't agree with the deadwood argument. Most of our players would get a game for most teams in this league. In my view they are hopelessly underperforming and have to sort it out. Calling them deadwood is giving them an excuse.

Look at Stevie Lawless, as rubbish as the rest of them last season, but currently performing well in a team at the top end of the premiership. He'd have been many peoples deadwood, but the fact is he has the capability. I'd say the same for many still in our team. Caldwell can't afford to wait for a transfer window, he needs to get this team playing as soon as possible.

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2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

We had a bit more movement a bit more energy but Ayr deserved that win, and with Alloa drawing they’re another point closer to us, we’re in big trouble and the squads a mess. 

Im surprised and alarmed not to see any new manager bounce, players seem like they know we’re down and they’re off, either in January or May.  We can move the dugouts as often as we want to wherever we please but that won’t hide the fact that guys like Storer, Storey & Mutomba are deemed good enough to play for this team, whilst Fitzpatrick and McCarthy aren’t given a chance.

 

We are serious relegation candidates, any narratives from the board on goal being promotion is pure spin.

This squad of players is not good enough to make top 4, I’m not sure if they’re good enough to avoid bottom 2.

We need a new centre half, that partnership doesn’t work, especially at set plays.

We need a natural right back, although Elliot was ok today he is not a natural right back, if he gets injured or suspended before January were in bigger problems.

We need a midfielder general, Bannigan whilst a decent player isn’t the guy who will rally the team or be the hard man.

We need a winger, Mutomba & Storey are not the answer.

We need a striker, Jai ain’t a striker and Dools is getting older.

 

Almost the whole outfield team bar 2 players are out of contract in January or May, with exception of Jai, Dools, Erskine & Bannigen (maybe) I wouldn’t keep any of them, maybe Elliot as a utility player.

I also thought we would get the new manager bounce. But we are not alone as both Aston Villa and Dundee are both still doing poor since getting a new manager in.Lets hope we see an upturn in results by say the end of November,or even sooner. If not we are in trouble.

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1 minute ago, allyo said:

We have been pathetic but I don't agree with the deadwood argument. Most of our players would get a game for most teams in this league. In my view they are hopelessly underperforming and have to sort it out. Calling them deadwood is giving them an excuse.

Look at Stevie Lawless, as rubbish as the rest of them last season, but currently performing well in a team at the top end of the premiership. He'd have been many peoples deadwood, but the fact is he has the capability. I'd say the same for many still in our team. Caldwell can't afford to wait for a transfer window, he needs to get this team playing as soon as possible.

Stevie Lawless was our best player by a country mile last season.

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9 minutes ago, Chachi said:

One transfer window won't be enough for Caldwell, he'll need the summer aswell to root out the deadwood.

To trust Caldwell with the large rebuild needed in the Summer I think he needs to show in January that he can find a player or two.

So far he seems to be very similar to Archibald and the concern is that he doesn't have much knowledge of lower league players in Scotland to help find undiscovered talent.

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10 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

I also thought we would get the new manager bounce. But we are not alone as both Aston Villa and Dundee are both still doing poor since getting a new manager in.Lets hope we see an upturn in results by say the end of November,or even sooner. If not we are in trouble.

Falkirks new manager bounce is also taking its time - thankfully for us

st Mirren don’t appear to be benefiting from one either 

Edited by Third Lanark
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Biggest thing  for me is Caldwell is adopting the Archibald philosophy of possession football with no end product which is the  biggest worry for me . Today it looked to me as if Penrice was told to stay as a defensive full back and let Christie push forward on the right hand side , I don’t believe some of these players are as a bad as people are making out but the safety first tactics are killing us , we’re giving teams far too much respect at this level.

The balance of the team is wrong , need more legs and pace in the team , play Melbourne at left back , push Penrice inside if we need a holding midfielder , I would also find a place for Andy McCarthy and possibly develop him as the midfield runner with his energy and enthusiasm instead of either Spittal or Slater who are contributing nothing in the way of creating or scoring goals .

Carry on the way we are going , not creating any chances or even having a shot at goal we’re going to have back to back relegations

Agree that you can’t judge Caldwell just now but the style of play he’s adopting is worrying to say the least , very similar to Archie’s mindset on football

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50 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Biggest thing  for me is Caldwell is adopting the Archibald philosophy of possession football with no end product which is the  biggest worry for me . Today it looked to me as if Penrice was told to stay as a defensive full back

Don’t agree. Penrice was guilty of that in the first half and Caldwell wasn’t happy on the touch line. In the second half Penrice was much more attacking minded. 

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2 minutes ago, JAG1970 said:

Don’t agree. Penrice was guilty of that in the first half and Caldwell wasn’t happy on the touch line. In the second half Penrice was much more attacking minded. 

Can’t remember Penrice getting to the byline at all during the whole game , crossing or cutting the ball back which he did when he was first introduced to the first team 

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1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

If you e stay up then his position will not be in doubt at all

If he doesn't improve this team and get us up the table he should go. Archie was replaced as he couldn't get us promoted Caldwell should and will be set the same target.

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Well it’s taken me two weeks but I’m seriously concerned about Gary Caldwell’s view of both games. The truth is that Ayr were stronger, more aggressive and more dangerous team. They absolutely deserved their victory today. They continued to hurt us in dangerous areas. Shankland could have got in five times had we not defended the one twos by the skin of our teeth. We’re playing football in areas that teams can easily defend. We play a series of intricate passes on the wing that invariably break down and on the rare occasion a player gets free we don’t have the quality to cross. And if we do get a ball in there’s no one in the middle to bully defenders to score from those sorts of crosses. It’s such a shit way of  playing no wonder we don’t score goals. 

Then at the other end we get caught in possession and gift goals. 

Were relegation fodder I genuinely don’t think we would have the fight against any team in this league. So how Statto and Caldwell can see this as positive truly amazes me. 

At least Archie would have said today wasn’t good enough. Gutted. 

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Biggest thing  for me is Caldwell is adopting the Archibald philosophy of possession football with no end product which is the  biggest worry for me . Today it looked to me as if Penrice was told to stay as a defensive full back and let Christie push forward on the right hand side , I don’t believe some of these players are as a bad as people are making out but the safety first tactics are killing us , we’re giving teams far too much respect at this level.

The balance of the team is wrong , need more legs and pace in the team , play Melbourne at left back , push Penrice inside if we need a holding midfielder , I would also find a place for Andy McCarthy and possibly develop him as the midfield runner with his energy and enthusiasm instead of either Spittal or Slater who are contributing nothing in the way of creating or scoring goals .

Carry on the way we are going , not creating any chances or even having a shot at goal we’re going to have back to back relegations

Agree that you can’t judge Caldwell just now but the style of play he’s adopting is worrying to say the least , very similar to Archie’s mindset on football

If Spittal or slater are not contributing goals then what does that say about Storey and Doolan- the former 2 have contributed more than the latter 2

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1 hour ago, allyo said:

We have been pathetic but I don't agree with the deadwood argument. Most of our players would get a game for most teams in this league. In my view they are hopelessly underperforming and have to sort it out. Calling them deadwood is giving them an excuse.

Look at Stevie Lawless, as rubbish as the rest of them last season, but currently performing well in a team at the top end of the premiership. He'd have been many peoples deadwood, but the fact is he has the capability. I'd say the same for many still in our team. Caldwell can't afford to wait for a transfer window, he needs to get this team playing as soon as possible.

Can't agree on current form there's probably only Penrice and Banzo that could expect to be regulars in the top teams the rest are lucky to be in ours. They can hide behind the managers but I don't buy that they have been rotten, their fault no ones else's.

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I think it is to early to judge Caldwell.I hope /think he is wanting to see players in matches. But we are in a position where we also need positive results and we need one soon. If Caldwell fails with us I think his managerial career is finished. But if he fails with us it could also mean we will be playing league 1 football. Also as I said when our previous management team was sacked,it was a big decision for the board to make but just as big or even bigger was getting the right manager in. Lets hope the board got it right.

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I'd like to know of the Ayr keeper is decent or not, but in 3 games I've seen him play us this season he's barely had a save to make! Caldwell can only work with the crap squad he's been left with, but I thought he should have kept Quitongo on along with Sol today. I wasn't there last week, but we didn't look any better today than we did against Ross C.

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8 minutes ago, jaggy said:

I'd like to know of the Ayr keeper is decent or not, but in 3 games I've seen him play us this season he's barely had a save to make! Caldwell can only work with the crap squad he's been left with, but I thought he should have kept Quitongo on along with Sol today. I wasn't there last week, but we didn't look any better today than we did against Ross C.

Matter of opinion but I don't think he was left a crap squad. After two game has he improved them? No we still look poor in defence and can't create any pressure or goal scoring chances.

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4 minutes ago, Metz said:

Matter of opinion but I don't think he was left a crap squad. After two game has he improved them? No we still look poor in defence and can't create any pressure or goal scoring chances.

A business fails without raw materials.

The players are garbage and should nearly all be binned.

Very concerned over new management as subs were baffling. He hasn’t realised yet that Storey and Spittal contribute zero.

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4 hours ago, Z88 said:

I thought Jack Storer offered something a bit different when he came on. Hit a number of decent defence splitting balls. 

Hing on a minute. Storer came on with not that much more than 10-12 minutes to play. How many times did he even touch the ball never mind play defence splitting balls? 

For what it's worth I thought Storer replacing Bannigan was a positive substitution but extremely marginal in effect.

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