Jump to content

Morton vs. Thistle


Jaggernaut
 Share

Recommended Posts

I just read a report from a guest user which was clearly meant as a reply. Whoever you are guest user, log in and make an account and you can post. Anyway, here is their post:

 

"The parable of the Bricklayer:

I watched the Ayr game and saw some elements of the points Gary raised in his post match interview after Morton . I didn’t feel at all that there was a lack of desire that couldn’t be put  right at all . In fact, I thought that it was one of our best performances , although some work to do , agreed, in attacking the ball at times .  If we had drawn 1-1 , that wouldn’t have been an unjust result . 

I thought that Gary , as a Central defender himself , would be brilliant at sharing his knowledge, experience and vastly improve our defence with his skills and really coach an improvement . I haven’t changed my mind in this and I love his fire and determination . Anger is a healthy emotion, that’s official from a psychologist friend of mine . But anger has to be managed , or it becomes temper and that’s where decisionmaking can be faulty owing to a lack of calmness , analysis or  “Emotional Intelligence”. So , I get Gary’s frustrations and I guess , he has to decide which direction to move in to best resolve this frustration. 

 I do, however, feel that in order to be a successful leader , one of the key attributes is emotional intelligence . 

All players including Gary make mistakes . Gary’s job is to lead, coach and motivate these players whilst under contract to improve. 

I never find public humiliation a useful tactic in any management situation . Also, it is risky and has backfired many times .. ie , De Bruyne! 

The manager’s role includes improving players technically, tactically and as Gary fairly points out, explaining the required level of aggression, bravery and desire necessary to be successful. 

All this has has to be done in a way that gets the messages across effectively and engagingly . 

Players know about the January transfer window , rest assured , they all know the score. In the modern game, humiliation, threats and public shaming from your leader simply isn’t an effective strategy and I think that, on reflection, Gary will regret his decisions and comments when the dust settles . By all means tell the players privately how you feel, but bullying in public isn’t going to work . 

 

I have made many mistakes in my life and I am not perfect , but one thing I have learned in life is,  as managers, we are like BRICKLAYERS 

The value we have is in our skill to take an ordinary looking brick and through our expertise, create something that has more value and when put together with other bricks, can become a wall .

It takes time, some shaping and some difficult decisions , but don’t throw the brick away based on first appearances . Wait until you have really worked on it and then, once you have your wall and it is doing it’s job, either look in with pride on what you have done to improve each brick ... or it is then easy to replace and nobody really notices ."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Chachi said:

Whilst a concerning start to his job, some of the  condemnation aimed at a guy after just 3 games is embarrassing. 

He may well prove to be the wrong manager sooner or later, but isn't a bit of time the least a new manager should expect? If he is the wrong manager, the blame lies squarely with the board.

The 18 month shambles prior to now can't be undone in 3 months never mind 3 weeks, although granted we did all expect some improved form which hasn't transpired.

Its a difficult job for anyone to come in to, and at least 2 transfer windows are needed.

What concerns me is it took 2.5 games to realise Mcginty is honking, but that can be couched by the fact we have zero defensive cover and maybe he was forced to give him a go.

Why Sorey hasn't been banished from the squad completely is beyond me.

 

By the end of your post you seem to be coming to the same conclusion as those you are questioning. For the reasons you highlight re mcginty and storie shows this job just might just be beyond Caldwell.

You are right, it's very early to judge 3 games in but when you have seen this situation before as i have over the years you tend to see the signs. That said it took me way too long to see Archie was a bomb scare at the end

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, twinny said:

I just read a report from a guest user which was clearly meant as a reply. Whoever you are guest user, log in and make an account and you can post. Anyway, here is their post:

 

"The parable of the Bricklayer:

I watched the Ayr game and saw some elements of the points Gary raised in his post match interview after Morton . I didn’t feel at all that there was a lack of desire that couldn’t be put  right at all . In fact, I thought that it was one of our best performances , although some work to do , agreed, in attacking the ball at times .  If we had drawn 1-1 , that wouldn’t have been an unjust result . 

I thought that Gary , as a Central defender himself , would be brilliant at sharing his knowledge, experience and vastly improve our defence with his skills and really coach an improvement . I haven’t changed my mind in this and I love his fire and determination . Anger is a healthy emotion, that’s official from a psychologist friend of mine . But anger has to be managed , or it becomes temper and that’s where decisionmaking can be faulty owing to a lack of calmness , analysis or  “Emotional Intelligence”. So , I get Gary’s frustrations and I guess , he has to decide which direction to move in to best resolve this frustration. 

 I do, however, feel that in order to be a successful leader , one of the key attributes is emotional intelligence . 

All players including Gary make mistakes . Gary’s job is to lead, coach and motivate these players whilst under contract to improve. 

I never find public humiliation a useful tactic in any management situation . Also, it is risky and has backfired many times .. ie , De Bruyne! 

The manager’s role includes improving players technically, tactically and as Gary fairly points out, explaining the required level of aggression, bravery and desire necessary to be successful. 

All this has has to be done in a way that gets the messages across effectively and engagingly . 

Players know about the January transfer window , rest assured , they all know the score. In the modern game, humiliation, threats and public shaming from your leader simply isn’t an effective strategy and I think that, on reflection, Gary will regret his decisions and comments when the dust settles . By all means tell the players privately how you feel, but bullying in public isn’t going to work . 

 

I have made many mistakes in my life and I am not perfect , but one thing I have learned in life is,  as managers, we are like BRICKLAYERS 

The value we have is in our skill to take an ordinary looking brick and through our expertise, create something that has more value and when put together with other bricks, can become a wall .

It takes time, some shaping and some difficult decisions , but don’t throw the brick away based on first appearances . Wait until you have really worked on it and then, once you have your wall and it is doing it’s job, either look in with pride on what you have done to improve each brick ... or it is then easy to replace and nobody really notices ."

Excellent post right enough twinny but what if, after wicks have delivered the bricks you fund that the ******** of a driver has dropped all said bricks from a height and when you go to build your wall all the bricks are broken. You wall's fecked before you even start.

Then you call the supplier and tell him/her that the bricks delivered are broken and sh1te. He/she says sorry, the delivery drivers a d1ck and has left our employment. I've started applications for a new delivery driver and will replace your broken bricks by Christmas.

By then it's cold/frosty/snowy/windy and even with new bricks you find said bricks are cold and damp and when you build your wall the wet bricks and frost cause the wall to fall down by which time all your brickies have left for pastures new and you're back to square one and will probably have been sacked by the guy/girl who employed you the build the wall in the first place.

BTW the brickies are fans, the other analogies are pretty obvious. 

P.S. i don't feel any better after a nights sleep. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Thistleberight said:

You are right, it's very early to judge 3 games in but when you have seen this situation before as i have over the years you tend to see the signs.

Yip. That's where I'm at. The signs are there and having watched this all before there is only a short window of opprotunity to fix it so quick judgements are unfortunately required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, laukat said:

Yip. That's where I'm at. The signs are there and having watched this all before there is only a short window of opprotunity to fix it so quick judgements are unfortunately required.

To be clear, you want Caldwell sacked immediately on the basis of the last three matches? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, lefty1876 said:

Am up for that archie had 7 games 3 wins 4 defeats am sure it was .

Archie lost his 1st 4 league games last season, he never won till his 10th , 6 defeats and 3 draws in that period, failing to score 4 times, yet he was allowed to carry on when it was obvious things were not right. 6 points from 30. He got another 37 league games including being relegated to turn things round, yet you want someone fired after 3

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think we are all agreed. We are in deep trouble.

So we need some positivity to accumulate some points quickly. Every player is in danger of losing their job unless they improve so they should be busting a gut from now.

I think we need to tell Erskine, Doolan(assuming he is fit)and Banzo to lead. Show everyone what they can do. 

Give Fitzpatrick and Quitongo free licence to express themselves.

Thats the attack sorted.

Penrice looks like a defensive mid and has played well when I’ve seen him in this role. Haven’t seen much of Melbourne but perhaps he’s worth a go at LB. 

Unfortunately we have little alternative at RB or CB.

Thats the outfield. Probably give Sneddon a run as he’s played well with limited opportunities.

Surely that team, properly managed, can beat some of the very average opposition in this league.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Archie lost his 1st 4 league games last season, he never won till his 10th , 6 defeats and 3 draws in that period, failing to score 4 times, yet he was allowed to carry on when it was obvious things were not right. 6 points from 30. He got another 37 league games including being relegated to turn things round, yet you want someone fired after 3

 

 

Different league better opposition .common I was talking this season what goes for one has to for another . Before it's to late 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

I think we are all agreed. We are in deep trouble.

So we need some positivity to accumulate some points quickly. Every player is in danger of losing their job unless they improve so they should be busting a gut from now.

I think we need to tell Erskine, Doolan(assuming he is fit)and Banzo to lead. Show everyone what they can do. 

Give Fitzpatrick and Quitongo free licence to express themselves.

Thats the attack sorted.

Penrice looks like a defensive mid and has played well when I’ve seen him in this role. Haven’t seen much of Melbourne but perhaps he’s worth a go at LB. 

Unfortunately we have little alternative at RB or CB.

Thats the outfield. Probably give Sneddon a run as he’s played well with limited opportunities.

Surely that team, properly managed, can beat some of the very average opposition in this league.

 

Your analysis shows the shit Archie left us in 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

I think we are all agreed. We are in deep trouble.

So we need some positivity to accumulate some points quickly. Every player is in danger of losing their job unless they improve so they should be busting a gut from now.

I think we need to tell Erskine, Doolan(assuming he is fit)and Banzo to lead. Show everyone what they can do. 

Give Fitzpatrick and Quitongo free licence to express themselves.

Thats the attack sorted.

Penrice looks like a defensive mid and has played well when I’ve seen him in this role. Haven’t seen much of Melbourne but perhaps he’s worth a go at LB. 

Unfortunately we have little alternative at RB or CB.

Thats the outfield. Probably give Sneddon a run as he’s played well with limited opportunities.

Surely that team, properly managed, can beat some of the very average opposition in this league.

 

Agree with most of your post , especially about pushing Penrice into a holding role , he’s a good player but not fit enough to play the full back / wing back role,watched Quitongo and I don’t believe he is a centre forward  either playing behind the main striker or possibly on the right wing could be his best position. Need to get Doolan back fit and playing well . Brice took his goal well yesterday but he’s like a fish out of water and his positioning as a defensive midfielder is there for all to see , shouldn’t be anywhere near the team ( another hopeful Archie Punt )

Got to give Caldwell a chance to sort things out but I would have expected to see more change on how he expects his team to set up .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

Give Fitzpatrick and Quitongo free licence to express themselves.

Penrice looks like a defensive mid and has played well when I’ve seen him in this role.

Sorry about the selective quoting but I don't recall an instance where Fitzpatrick hasn't been given a relatively free role. Can argue he's not been used enough but anytime he has been played he's not exactly been curtailed.

Apart from against Celtic on what other occasion have you seen Penrice play in central midfield?  Personally I'd like to see James win a few more tackles at left back before I'd be confident he's got the muscle to anchor midfield. Besides I doubt many of us have seen enough of Melbourne to know he could step into Penrice's role. For what it's worth from what I've seen of Melbourne it looks like he's positive enough going forward but lacks something defensively. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If McGinty is to be left out then he might be better playing penrice at centre-half and putting Melbourne at left back. I saw Penrice play there in a league cup game against Airdrie and he did ok. He's a bit short to play there long term but his pace arguably makes it a better option than Scobbie.

To me it weakens the defence leaving out McGinty and Caldwell's more pressing problem is finding a system that compensates for the lack of a right back rather than creating an additional problem on the left side of defence.

If he starts Elliot at centre half then he would be as well prepping his cv.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, lefty1876 said:

Good shout laukat am with you mate 

Me too. It's as plain as the nose on my face. Again for clarity, i want the guy to succeed but it's still going to hell in a hand cart.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Archie lost his 1st 4 league games last season, he never won till his 10th , 6 defeats and 3 draws in that period, failing to score 4 times, yet he was allowed to carry on when it was obvious things were not right. 6 points from 30. He got another 37 league games including being relegated to turn things round, yet you want someone fired after 3

 

 

It's about learning from your mistakes and being able to tell things are going from bad to worse. I've already stated this shouldn't be a witch hunt and it's very early in his career at us but......ask any st midden fan about stubbs. The game is littered with such examples

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"On appointing their new manager,  Nuneaton Borough viewed Gary Caldwell as the outstanding candidate. His brief experience in Scottish football was put down to an anomaly, having been informed that there was a squad and budget capable of winning the league and being promoted, he found this to be completely untrue and so his record of 0 wins, 1 draw, and 14 losses can be entirely disregarded. "The Partick Thistle board ought to have a long hard look at themselves for misleading a young talented manager" said a blown away chairman. "Keen not to make the same mistake again, Gary has conducted an in depth review of our current squad. ""

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Having watched the first two goals I can see why he was left in the changing room, to not get infront of your man for the clearance on a reasonable cross was poor, but the second goal is terrible as a centre half he should win that ball against Bob McHugh.

I can imagine that he didn't want to give away a penalty like Somerset Park first game of the season, but on second viewing he is pretty culpable, when I was at the game I was more annoyed about the cross being played in.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Juanito said:

Having watched the first two goals I can see why he was left in the changing room, to not get infront of your man for the clearance on a reasonable cross was poor, but the second goal is terrible as a centre half he should win that ball against Bob McHugh.

I can imagine that he didn't want to give away a penalty like Somerset Park first game of the season, but on second viewing he is pretty culpable, when I was at the game I was more annoyed about the cross being played in. 

At the first goal because its a low cross coming across from the left McGinty is not the centre half that should be dealing with it. It should be Keown but he's out of position trying to close the gap to Elliot. McGinty ends up being closest as a last ditch effort to try and prevent a goal. You can see him gesturing to Keown and Elliot that they are out of position.

At the second goal McGinty is in the right place and would deal with it comfortably apart from the gust of wind that blows the ball back towards the penalty spot. The morton striker is faster on his feet being a quicker smaller player.

Both goals start because Slater dives in and gets skinned by the Morton crosser. Slater in a centre attacking midfielder who's weakness is defending. Why was he started in that position? What is Elliot marking at either goals? There is no Morton attacker near him, he's too far away from the Morton crosser to hinder the cross and he's too far away from the centre of the penalty box to defend the cross.

BTW - I'm not saying McGinty is a great centre-half just that he was unjustly blamed for the first 2 goals.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought at the time after a woeful performance it was disappointing how few Jags players acknowledged the wet and windswept travelling support that remained to the bitter end - I only saw Keown, Fitzpatrick and Penrice doing so. Watching those highlights, it looks like McCarthy walked straight off, was sent back out to shake hands or acknowledge fans, did neither just loitered and then came back in again.

I don't blame the players for wanting to get off the pitch ASAP, but is this the level of respect the players have for GC demonstrated in Mccarthys actions?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, jaf said:

I don't blame the players for wanting to get off the pitch ASAP, but is this the level of respect the players have for GC demonstrated in Mccarthys actions?

 

Caldwell has played for Scotland and managed at a decent level down south. McCarthy ( and others ) have achieved the square root of f**k all in the game and to be honest probably never will.  If they've got no respect then it says more about them than him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/4/2018 at 1:47 PM, Thistleberight said:

By the end of your post you seem to be coming to the same conclusion as those you are questioning. For the reasons you highlight re mcginty and storie shows this job just might just be beyond Caldwell.

You are right, it's very early to judge 3 games in but when you have seen this situation before as i have over the years you tend to see the signs. That said it took me way too long to see Archie was a bomb scare at the end

Fair play to you regarding Archie being wrong at the end - it took me a long time as well, blinded quite a bit by the legendary status and also by putting a considerable blame on the players who have and still are playing a large part in this mess as have the board 

i wanted McCall and then maybe Goodwin as choice.  I don’t know about Caldwell at all but I feel personally he has got to be given the January window just to see what players he does bring in - granted it’s a pretty poor start but part of it goes back to these players many of whom I hope will depart soon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...