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6 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Btw I very much doubt the half time re-jig had any effect on the end result. Losing two goals in the first half despite us having the advantage of playing behind a howling gale more or less sealed it. 

I agree that we were unlikely to win or draw the game and at the start of the game I thought we had to be ahead at halftime to have a chance in the second half. However the halftime changes were the difference between watching a reasonably competitive second half and watching in horror and disbelief whilst avoiding a cricket score.

Everytime Morton got the ball in the second half (which was lot) we looked like we would conceed. Everytime Elliot was in the vicinty of the ball he looked like he would make a mistake.

Dreadfull to watch, must have been awful for a few of the players (Christie, McCarthy, Keown, Quitongo), terrible weather and standing in a cowshed that sounded like it would collpase at any moment. In any other line of entertainment you would have been due an apology and a refund.

 

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18 minutes ago, laukat said:

I agree that we were unlikely to win or draw the game and at the start of the game I thought we had to be ahead at halftime to have a chance in the second half. However the halftime changes were the difference between watching a reasonably competitive second half and watching in horror and disbelief whilst avoiding a cricket score.

Everytime Morton got the ball in the second half (which was lot) we looked like we would conceed. Everytime Elliot was in the vicinty of the ball he looked like he would make a mistake.

Dreadfull to watch, must have been awful for a few of the players (Christie, McCarthy, Keown, Quitongo), terrible weather and standing in a cowshed that sounded like it would collpase at any moment. In any other line of entertainment you would have been due an apology and a refund.

Gotta agree with everything you say.

If I wasn't feeling so sorry for myself and every other Jags fan that witnessed that today I'd have a wee bit left for Christie. Conditions in that 2nd half were bad enough for an experienced centreback never mind someone who's a total novice in that position..

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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4 hours ago, Metz said:

History will tell us that there are certain managers that didn't/ don't belong at our club, Bryce, Campbell, Collins, Whyte/Brittain, McLeod,  Clark and now Caldwell. Let history guide the board and go for McCall before this clown gets too long and turns more fans off.

I would add McVeigh to that list (along with Symon and Cormack).  Particularly worrying is that Caldwell's appointment feels so far too much like "McVeigh, The Sequel."

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Interesting question for the legal eagles amongst us, this from the chesterfield forum

Quote

If he lied in the interview, saying he wasn’t backed, and the club did retract a statement to this end so clearly he did...........could they sack him without having to pay him off?

Now, first thought/argument/rebuff to this  would be ptfc (gerry/jacqui/board?) should have done due diligence etc, checked out facts, not taken his word alone for it.  So possibly, any lack of this due diligence, would be the clubs fault/oversight/negligence.

But beyond that or ignoring that, is there a case for such a suggestion being legally possible, due to GC allegedly lying at interview, and thus arguably, getting the job under false pretences or some other legalese speak?

Alternatively, especially after it emerged that Miller at Livi had a 3 month probationary period in his contract, and this was before archie was finally shown the exit door, you would have thought it prudent and wise for the club to have insisted such a clause in a contract for a manager untested in Scotland and whom was at the time unemployed, so bargaining power was all in favour of thistle at the time. And not give him a carte blanche watertight 2 year contract.

Not saying he should be punted immediately, but do have fear of what state we could be in come 1st January if things continue in vein they are, and then the thought of possibly throwing even more good money after bad in the window, on yet more dross/wrong players under a manager still drowning unable to change fortunes, and where we could spiral to come end of season - and impact that could have even longer term.

If he turns it round in next few upcoming matches or there is at the very least encouraging signs of improvement in performances, attitude, resilience and ideally at least a couple of positive results this month, then fair do's, but until such signs of recovery are there, i feel the club has to consider their options.

We desperately need a manager who can work with a sizeable chunk of the current squad, motivate, train, lead and improve them by whatever means, and thats now, not in six or 12 months time - we cannot change a whole squad midseason, short of predominately signing every unwanted castoff that no one else wants (and  you can be certain we won't be able to offload the majority of the current squad in January either), and that rarely works out well. 

Yes, this is a squad assembled  in a panic scattergun approach by archie, but if GC cannot change the current trajectory or even performances in coming weeks, and actually is worsening the situation, then the club seriously has to look at its options, including termination of his contract before January window, and get in someone who has the managerial ability to impose a positive improvement and ensure the club does not slide into the seaside league next season.  It's better to hold your hands up early and admit got it wrong, than blindly bury heads in sand and hope it miraculously changes for the better.  Didn't work last time out, sure as hell it won't again if that approach is taken.

If things don't improve in next month by some tangible signs, and the board don't act, even more will drift away from the club and that will negatively impact the clubs longterm plans and progress even more. We've seen this movie before, back to back relegations, the board cannot allow another disaster sequel or box office remake flop, so can only hope the initial question posed has a get out clause for us, should it be required, to ensure ptfc v.2019 is a memorable hit for the fans. Otherwise, it's more than this season we will be writing off.

 

 

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I was half listening to Jagzone yesterday as I was quite busy. We played Elliott at CB?! So Caldwell took the guy who has been having a difficult time with mistakes recently, who would normally have been dropped to give him a break but cannot because we have no other right backs and totally exposed him at CB? That's crazy. Each time I heard he had an error leading to a goal I was sad that someone who has been pretty good for us in the past is having such a terrible season, but that's totally on Caldwell yesterday. 

On another less relevant note, I think that's Elliott now played every position except goalkeeper for us in competitive matches. Yay.

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2 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

To be fair to GC, in his post-match interview he at least apologised to the fans, praised the effort of the two young players, and acknowledged the lack of fight and that he needs to sort out what's going on.

Don’t make the same mistake as the board. We know he talks a good game. Actions however speak louder than words. 

By the way, we are a team of limited resources and many on here and even the manager are talking about wholesale changes in january and a view GC needs at least one window  (I don’t subscribe to that view or there is no point changing a manager anytime apart from in the window, Steve Clarke example etc) 

Compare and contrast with Sarri at a Club wirh resources when asked about January signings :

‘It is too easy to go into the market for every problem. I think we need to improve and we need to improve with these players because they can improve.

‘It is my work, I think”

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Further to this why was Scobbie on the bench? To cover for one player?

Btw I very much doubt the half time re-jig had any effect on the end result. Losing two goals in the first half despite us having the advantage of playing behind a howling gale more or less sealed it. 

That’s true. I said the same at half time. 

Equally after the third went in (which I think was due to the defensive rejigging) I looked at players and said , they are gone mentally - this will be 5 or 6. 

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Caldwell has adopted a high risk strategy in publicly criticising the experienced players at the club. With around 24  points up for grabs ahead of the window some might say not so much risky as foolish. 

I'm sure he didn't say at his interview "this squad is rubbish and I won't be able to get results until January ".

He simply must get results this month. If not then the board must consider whether it's worth giving him money or bring in a replacement to allow sufficient time for another new manager to assess the squad themselves before the window opens.  

Of course we all want to win on Saturday and have Caldwell turn this around quickly. We want him to be a success with us.  

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Serious questions should have been asked about his approach to the 2nd half in the post match interview. It was bizarre to say the least.

Like others, I have also been disappointed with the line ups, its just exactly the same shite as before. I know there isnt much play there but I would have hoped he would have been able to see where our weaknesses and strengths lie.

Regarding him criticising the players, its about time they realised its time to work hard for your money. Confidence is one thing but we have a squad of guisers pretending to be professional footballers.

A probationary period is normal in many jobs, if the board had any sense there would be one in his contract so that there would be an added sense of pressure to get results early.

He left himself wide open for questioning yesterday, I dont think anyone can disagree with that.

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12 hours ago, laukat said:

I agree that we were unlikely to win or draw the game and at the start of the game I thought we had to be ahead at halftime to have a chance in the second half. However the halftime changes were the difference between watching a reasonably competitive second half and watching in horror and disbelief whilst avoiding a cricket score.

Everytime Morton got the ball in the second half (which was lot) we looked like we would conceed. Everytime Elliot was in the vicinty of the ball he looked like he would make a mistake.

Dreadfull to watch, must have been awful for a few of the players (Christie, McCarthy, Keown, Quitongo), terrible weather and standing in a cowshed that sounded like it would collpase at any moment. In any other line of entertainment you would have been due an apology and a refund.

 

To be fair, Caldwell has apologised in his match reaction.

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This is how went down we sacked one of our most successful managers we've had took us from the first kept us up for 5 seasons took us into the top 6 missed staying up by 1 point the board admits they were to blame for not investing in the team has to build a new team in a few weeks then gets sacked alter 7 games replace him with a f**king clown and still all the archie haters support it a would normally back any new manger but this guy has nothing no inspiration and clueless as all could see who were at the game at the weekend ridiculous training exercises before the alloa game changing dugouts at firhill he is a dick we either shout him out the door on saturday or we accept we are getting relegated get rid of him before he does anymore damage for f**k sake 

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6 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

To be fair, Caldwell has apologised in his match reaction.

Just watched the interview. He seems to be apologising for the performance (not the selection or the substitions) and convinced it was right thing to do to put McCarthy on as because of his superior attitude . The interviewer didn't ask him why he ignored Scobbie and put Keown, Elliot and McCarthy into unfamilar roles which would have been a far more intesting question.

He states that we were going to lose more goals with the personel we had on the pitch but for the life of me I can't see how you then get to the belief that playing McCarthy at rightback, Elliot at centreback and Keown on the leftside was going to make us stronger defensively.

When he talks about having to get the ball first in the box its almost like he is talking about what he would have done when he played rather than what the team needs to do. A mroe experienced manager would have said we needed to do more to stop the cross coming in or apply more pressure to the cross so that it effected the quality of it.

Falkirk have a competent manager who has already improved them and will in my opinion get them taking points after January. Alloa are only 1 point behind as things stand. I really hope I'm wrong about Caldwell but after yesterday I really fear for us. I think we are completely reliant on someone like Coulibally or Erskine hitting a purple patch but even if they did it would just paper over the real issues.

 

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33 minutes ago, lefty1876 said:

This is how went down we sacked one of our most successful managers we've had took us from the first kept us up for 5 seasons took us into the top 6 missed staying up by 1 point the board admits they were to blame for not investing in the team has to build a new team in a few weeks then gets sacked alter 7 games replace him with a f**king clown and still all the archie haters support it a would normally back any new manger but this guy has nothing no inspiration and clueless as all could see who were at the game at the weekend ridiculous training exercises before the alloa game changing dugouts at firhill he is a dick we either shout him out the door on saturday or we accept we are getting relegated get rid of him before he does anymore damage for f**k sake 

Aye Archie is blameless here.

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54 minutes ago, lefty1876 said:

This is how went down we sacked one of our most successful managers we've had took us from the first kept us up for 5 seasons took us into the top 6 missed staying up by 1 point the board admits they were to blame for not investing in the team has to build a new team in a few weeks then gets sacked alter 7 games replace him with a f**king clown and still all the archie haters support it a would normally back any new manger but this guy has nothing no inspiration and clueless as all could see who were at the game at the weekend ridiculous training exercises before the alloa game changing dugouts at firhill he is a dick we either shout him out the door on saturday or we accept we are getting relegated get rid of him before he does anymore damage for f**k sake 

Hi Archie, hows things

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12 minutes ago, Hankey said:

Aye Archie is blameless here.

Archie archie archie all you get out the haters everything still archies fault the board get a manager that is a dick 11 players running about aimlessly archies fault caldwell tactics are wrong archies fault ridiculous training exercises before the game kicks off archies fault dugout change archies fault lose 3 games in a row with gutless performances archies fault gary caldwell gets us relegated  archies fault pmsl couldn't make this shite up 

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9 hours ago, north stander said:

Interesting question for the legal eagles amongst us, this from the chesterfield forum

Now, first thought/argument/rebuff to this  would be ptfc (gerry/jacqui/board?) should have done due diligence etc, checked out facts, not taken his word alone for it.  So possibly, any lack of this due diligence, would be the clubs fault/oversight/negligence.

But beyond that or ignoring that, is there a case for such a suggestion being legally possible, due to GC allegedly lying at interview, and thus arguably, getting the job under false pretences or some other legalese speak?

Alternatively, especially after it emerged that Miller at Livi had a 3 month probationary period in his contract, and this was before archie was finally shown the exit door, you would have thought it prudent and wise for the club to have insisted such a clause in a contract for a manager untested in Scotland and whom was at the time unemployed, so bargaining power was all in favour of thistle at the time. And not give him a carte blanche watertight 2 year contract.

Not saying he should be punted immediately, but do have fear of what state we could be in come 1st January if things continue in vein they are, and then the thought of possibly throwing even more good money after bad in the window, on yet more dross/wrong players under a manager still drowning unable to change fortunes, and where we could spiral to come end of season - and impact that could have even longer term.

If he turns it round in next few upcoming matches or there is at the very least encouraging signs of improvement in performances, attitude, resilience and ideally at least a couple of positive results this month, then fair do's, but until such signs of recovery are there, i feel the club has to consider their options.

We desperately need a manager who can work with a sizeable chunk of the current squad, motivate, train, lead and improve them by whatever means, and thats now, not in six or 12 months time - we cannot change a whole squad midseason, short of predominately signing every unwanted castoff that no one else wants (and  you can be certain we won't be able to offload the majority of the current squad in January either), and that rarely works out well. 

Yes, this is a squad assembled  in a panic scattergun approach by archie, but if GC cannot change the current trajectory or even performances in coming weeks, and actually is worsening the situation, then the club seriously has to look at its options, including termination of his contract before January window, and get in someone who has the managerial ability to impose a positive improvement and ensure the club does not slide into the seaside league next season.  It's better to hold your hands up early and admit got it wrong, than blindly bury heads in sand and hope it miraculously changes for the better.  Didn't work last time out, sure as hell it won't again if that approach is taken.

If things don't improve in next month by some tangible signs, and the board don't act, even more will drift away from the club and that will negatively impact the clubs longterm plans and progress even more. We've seen this movie before, back to back relegations, the board cannot allow another disaster sequel or box office remake flop, so can only hope the initial question posed has a get out clause for us, should it be required, to ensure ptfc v.2019 is a memorable hit for the fans. Otherwise, it's more than this season we will be writing off.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, JAG1970 said:

Caldwell has adopted a high risk strategy in publicly criticising the experienced players at the club. With around 24  points up for grabs ahead of the window some might say not so much risky as foolish. 

I'm sure he didn't say at his interview "this squad is rubbish and I won't be able to get results until January ".

He simply must get results this month. If not then the board must consider whether it's worth giving him money or bring in a replacement to allow sufficient time for another new manager to assess the squad themselves before the window opens.  

Of course we all want to win on Saturday and have Caldwell turn this around quickly. We want him to be a success with us.  

Agree with both these posts. Archie was sacked because our board is expecting promotion this season. So I take it Caldwell assured the board that he would be able to at least have us challenging. Losing your first 3 games in charge and 1 of those being a 5-1 defeat does not exactly give the fans or players confidence in what you are trying to do. Lets hope we do what Morton did after they lost 5-0 at Ross County and we go on and win some games.

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I can appreciate how frustrated everybody is at the last three results and, even more so, the performances, in those games.

However, suggesting a manager should be sacked less than three weeks in to a two year contract is absolutely ridiculous. 

 

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24 minutes ago, lefty1876 said:

Archie archie archie all you get out the haters everything still archies fault the board get a manager that is a dick 11 players running about aimlessly archies fault caldwell tactics are wrong archies fault ridiculous training exercises before the game kicks off archies fault dugout change archies fault lose 3 games in a row with gutless performances archies fault gary caldwell gets us relegated  archies fault pmsl couldn't make this shite up 

Thickest poster on here ^^^^

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2 minutes ago, Hankey said:

Thickest poster on here ^^^^

Aww wits up pal day you no like it back its no ma fault its archies ya nob put your dummy back in thickest posters are the ones that want to give this dick more time a take it u were not at the game yesterday archie got caldwells tactics all wrong ya fool 

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16 minutes ago, lefty1876 said:

Aww wits up pal day you no like it back its no ma fault its archies ya nob put your dummy back in thickest posters are the ones that want to give this dick more time a take it u were not at the game yesterday archie got caldwells tactics all wrong ya fool 

Who was the manager when we got relegated? Who signed all these players?  Who was the manager when we were playing games with 4 subs? Who was the manager when we were losing to shite like East Fife? Who was the manager who also was winless in his away games?

Some people are more invested in Archie than the club. It's pathetic. Caldwell has had a rancid start, but yet people can't overlook how hard done by poor wee Alan Archibald was and have suddenly forgotten just how shite we had been for 18 months.

 

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