jlsarmy Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 25 minutes ago, dl1971 said: Fair comment. The question is how much time. We have had guys on here after 3 games of the new regime.....calling for his head. There are some on here desperate for us to fail....just so Caldwell can be removed. I hope the team makes ground during this crucial period....not because I want to imagine them foaming at the mouth, but because I want us to win. It's what supporters do. You’ve got that wrong , they can see that we’re bottom of the league and that the new manager has made no progress , despite having good players at the club like Doolan , Erskine , Bannigan , Slater , Penrice, Elliott , Spittal , Fitzpatrick, most of whom have played at a much higher level . Ultimately the manager is responsible for this , he picks the team , he’s got his preferred tactics , he’s got to man manage and motivate the players. Caldwell has made no connection with the supporters and his paltry total of 6 points out of 36 is embarrassing especially in the 2nd tier of Scottish football. We’re on course for the seaside league and years in oblivion. Caldwells record is indefensible , the supporters have every right to be concerned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dl1971 Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: You’ve got that wrong , they can see that we’re bottom of the league and that the new manager has made no progress , despite having good players at the club like Doolan , Erskine , Bannigan , Slater , Penrice, Elliott , Spittal , Fitzpatrick, most of whom have played at a much higher level . Ultimately the manager is responsible for this , he picks the team , he’s got his preferred tactics , he’s got to man manage and motivate the players. Caldwell has made no connection with the supporters and his paltry total of 6 points out of 36 is embarrassing especially in the 2nd tier of Scottish football. We’re on course for the seaside league and years in oblivion. Caldwells record is indefensible , the supporters have every right to be concerned. So what you are saying that if we win on Saturday you still want him out. If we win the following week you still want him out. Essentially if he does turn this around, you want him out? True or false? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlsarmy Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 5 minutes ago, dl1971 said: So what you are saying that if we win on Saturday you still want him out. If we win the following week you still want him out. Essentially if he does turn this around, you want him out? True or false? I’ve already posted from what I know ,that a Club of our size everything should all be joined up Academy, 18s , reserve team to the first team , there has got to be a pathway for the youngsters coming through. That is not happening for whatever reason , if you can tell me one player over the last 4 months who has improved with Gary Caldwell’s coaching I’ll stand corrected. It’s going to be a miraculous recovery if we survive this , and to answer your question he’s not the right man for our Club in terms of building the infrastructure , making the players we’ve got better and obviously the results are there for all to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 Not my debate, but "turning this around" will take more than just a few wins in the games ahead. The odd win and draw here in there will simply slow thing down. A turnaround will need something much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, jlsarmy said: if you can tell me one player over the last 4 months who has improved with Gary Caldwell’s coaching I’ll stand corrected. Christie Elliott Blair Spittal And Caldwell hasn't even been in charge for three months yet. Edited January 9, 2019 by Dark Passenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, dl1971 said: So what you are saying that if we win on Saturday you still want him out. If we win the following week you still want him out. Essentially if he does turn this around, you want him out? True or false? I can't speak for jlsarmy. Nevertheless, what I would say is right from the time it looked like Gary Caldwell was going to be appointed manager, a few posters including jlsarmy and myself, were against it. https://www.wearethistle.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/13099-whos-next/&page=17 The main reasons for not wanting Gary Caldwell were his managerial record and his "footballing philosophy" sounded just the same as Alan Archibald's. So you are correct that right from the off, Caldwell was pretty much on the back foot with some of the support and initial goodwill was in pretty short supply. Dl1971, it's difficult to pretend to have faith in someone when you have none. If you don't believe in someone and think they're not up to it, you just want them gone before they inflict ever greater damage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KemoAvdiu Posted January 9, 2019 Report Share Posted January 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said: Christie Elliott Blair Spittal And Caldwell hasn't even been in charge for three months yet. Absolutely right. Just imagine what coaching wonders the guy can perform if we give him a few years. His record really speaks for itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said: Christie Elliott Blair Spittal And Caldwell hasn't even been in charge for three months yet. you might add Miles Storey (at least for 45 minutes worth). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said: Absolutely right. Just imagine what coaching wonders the guy can perform if we give him a few years. His record really speaks for itself. A question was asked and answered. And an error corrected. Edited January 10, 2019 by Dark Passenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 I’d rather we did badly so I can get rid of the manager than he stages a recovery and gets us up the table .....discuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonehJags Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Im coming to this party a bit late. Chris Erskine of 5 year ago is probably the best player ive seen in the past 20 odd year at firhill in the rid an yella. Those fond memories of him running gracefully past folk though are a distant memory. For a long time now, since he pretty much came back he has been far too inconsistent and instead of taking responsibility and turning to run at defenders, he tries too many fancy flicks that seldom come off. My message to Chris would be, do what we know your capable of. The passing pish that must be drilled into these players needs to get forgotten. Show us your skill again and make yourself undroppable because to be honest the fancy aimless flicks are unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 10 hours ago, AlgarveJag said: you might add Miles Storey (at least for 45 minutes worth). As an aside I don't think there's any coincidence that Storey's "45 minutes" occurred when the team for once were on the front foot, with midfielders getting forward at pace. My biggest criticism of Miles is his lack of awareness causing bad decision making. With the likes of Bannigan and Slater getting into advanced positions that fault was negated to a major degree. When the pace and intensity dropped off in the second half and Storey was more on his own he kinda reverted to type. Don't mean that to sound like faint praise. Like all footballers at our level he has faults to his game. He does tho' have attributes as well (pace, strength & stamina) and if we're going to exploit these pluses I'd suggest we don't leave him semi-isolated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, javeajag said: I’d rather we did badly so I can get rid of the manager than he stages a recovery and gets us up the table .....discuss Without question I'd rather we stage a recovery and get up the table. Virtually all I ask of a Thistle manager is that he is successful. (That, and as long as they don't disgrace the club, which I have no reason to suggest would apply to Gary Caldwell). So yes, turn it around, get us up the table... I'll back you. That's what I hope happens. However... I do not have faith in that happening. And in retrospect, I'm not convinced that the Dunfermline win was a positive thing. An isolated win will not push us up the table, but may delay what many believe inevitably has to happen. And in the long term could do more harm than good. So... I'll support Thistle in every game, and genuinely hope that we win every game we play. I'd expect all thistle fans to feel this way. But I can understand if there's some feeling towards the other side. Edited January 10, 2019 by allyo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, javeajag said: I’d rather we did badly so I can get rid of the manager than he stages a recovery and gets us up the table .....discuss The danger is he does enough to cling on for a couple of Games but with no real overall improvement - then we drag on towards at best play offs end of Season , 6 Points over the next three games is the minimal target for me . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javeajag Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said: The danger is he does enough to cling on for a couple of Games but with no real overall improvement - then we drag on towards at best play offs end of Season , 6 Points over the next three games is the minimal target for me . If there is no improvement he will be gone the only real debate is how long he gets.....Archie got a season, playoffs, summer and first quarter Edited January 10, 2019 by javeajag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, javeajag said: If there is no improvement he will be gone to only real debate is how long he gets.....Archie got a season, playoffs, summer and first quarter I don't think we should compare to Archibald because: He had a track record, which justified some patience Even so, it turned out that we waited too long in his case 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Like all fans, I hope that results improve substantially in the next few weeks, and I am cautiously optimistic. However if they don't, I suspect that Low will be reluctant to admit her mistake in hiring him, and will therefore be slow to react and despite their experience with Archibald, give him more time than justified. If this were to happen, then I think that there are more deep seated concerns about the stewardship of the Club than the choice of manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, javeajag said: If there is no improvement he will be gone to only real debate is how long he gets.....Archie got a season, playoffs, summer and first quarter We don't know the details of GC's contract but you have to assume, seeing he's had very limited success elsewhere and was out of work, it's weighed in our favour. I've already stated we're in cure worse than illness territory but I don't think the Club hierarchy would be able to withstand the pressure and a dismissal would be near inevitable next month. I'd argue that comparison with Archie's protracted period before his own dismissal is largely irrelevant. Archibald had goodwill banked in buckets plus iirc he had to earn his initial contract based on excellent results in this division. If you're merely pointing out that Archie's sacking was long overdue and the Club have previous in delay then I take your point. Of course Britton and Lowe weren't responsible for most of that delay so perhaps they'd show less tolerance even if getting so much egg on their chins that early into their respective posts would be embarrassing. My hope is results improve starting this Saturday and we climb to somewhere relatively safe in the division. Any managerial decision can then be made over a period of reflection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said: As an aside I don't think there's any coincidence that Storey's "45 minutes" occurred when the team for once were on the front foot, with midfielders getting forward at pace. My biggest criticism of Miles is his lack of awareness causing bad decision making. With the likes of Bannigan and Slater getting into advanced positions that fault was negated to a major degree. When the pace and intensity dropped off in the second half and Storey was more on his own he kinda reverted to type. Don't mean that to sound like faint praise. Like all footballers at our level he has faults to his game. He does tho' have attributes as well (pace, strength & stamina) and if we're going to exploit these pluses I'd suggest we don't leave him semi-isolated. I guess my point here was more about GC than MS. If playing the GC way, which is presumably on the front foot, then he might get more out of the current squad from players like Storey, Elliot and Spittal and that would be quite a significant improvement when added to his own signings if they gel and help getting more from what we already have. I'm also happy to accept that 45 minutes does not a season make and the jury is still out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, eljaggo said: Like all fans, I hope that results improve substantially in the next few weeks, and I am cautiously optimistic. However if they don't, I suspect that Low will be reluctant to admit her mistake in hiring him, and will therefore be slow to react and despite their experience with Archibald, give him more time than justified. If this were to happen, then I think that there are more deep seated concerns about the stewardship of the Club than the choice of manager. Fair comment eljaggo. The concerns over the stewardship of the club are, for myself, the main problem. From my own perspective, given his dubious managerial record, I was shocked that Gary Caldwell was appointed in the first instance. If and when Gary Caldwell is removed, can we trust those in charge to get it right the next time? I have my doubts. We are fortunate to have financial beneficiaries in the Weirs. Nevertheless, if the people responsible in spending and allocating this largesse are incompetent, it will eventually cause more harm than good. We will become a basket case subsidy junky club and it will curtains for us if that financial life support was ever to be withdrawn. Therefore, the source of our problem lies not with Gary Caldwell, or with those who appointed Caldwell. The real problem stems from the powers that stand behind Jacqui Lowe and Gerry Britton. He who pays the piper calls the tune. Edited January 10, 2019 by AndyMac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 It's plain daft to suggest that anybody would wsnt Thistle to get beat so we can get rid of the manager. We all want Thistle to win every single game, every tackle, every throw-in etc, irrespective of who the manager is at any given point in time. But it has to be more than just the next game; it has to be at least enough wins to avoid an ever increasing likelihood that Caldwell is going to manage us into the third tier, having won the job by confidently assuring the interview panel that we would be heading back to the Premiership on his watch. This is a crisis, plain and simple. If any fans believe GC can turn things round and keep us up, that's fair enough, just say what you've seen that gives you that impression. I don't. What I've seen scares me shitless. I think there's no chance whatsoever we're staying up under this guy. We need a new manager to get us out of this deepening hole; no point in sacking Caldwell in March when our fate is sealed and then bringing somebody in to prepare for life in the Pub League West Division. Have I mentioned that Ian McCall's said he wants the job? I think I might've. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, AndyMac said: We are fortunate to have financial beneficiaries in the Weirs. Nevertheless, if the people responsible in spending and allocating this largesse are incompetent, it will eventually cause more harm than good. We will become a basket case subsidy junky club and it will curtains for us if that financial life support was ever to be withdrawn. I wasn't aware that our continued existence was dependent on the generosity of the Weirs. 26 minutes ago, Blackpool Jags said: Have I mentioned that Ian McCall's said he wants the job? I think I might've. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said: I wasn't aware that our continued existence was dependent on the generosity of the Weirs. Every day's a school day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 I hope the Weirs are not Beneficiaries. I hope they are the Benefactors and Thistle are the Beneficiaries of their largesse. ....I'll get my coat 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggy Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Blackpool Jags said: It's plain daft to suggest that anybody would wsnt Thistle to get beat so we can get rid of the manager. We all want Thistle to win every single game, every tackle, every throw-in etc, irrespective of who the manager is at any given point in time. But it has to be more than just the next game; it has to be at least enough wins to avoid an ever increasing likelihood that Caldwell is going to manage us into the third tier, having won the job by confidently assuring the interview panel that we would be heading back to the Premiership on his watch. This is a crisis, plain and simple. If any fans believe GC can turn things round and keep us up, that's fair enough, just say what you've seen that gives you that impression. I don't. What I've seen scares me shitless. I think there's no chance whatsoever we're staying up under this guy. We need a new manager to get us out of this deepening hole; no point in sacking Caldwell in March when our fate is sealed and then bringing somebody in to prepare for life in the Pub League West Division. Have I mentioned that Ian McCall's said he wants the job? I think I might've. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46827693 he seems to be fairly committed to Ayr just now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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