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15 minutes ago, laukat said:

I would say your analysis is spot on. 3-5-2 is generally deployed when you have to play counter-attacking football because you don't have or want a lot of possession. We don't have 2 wingbacks we have 1 wingback (elliot) and 1/2 fullbacks (Penrice/Scobbie). I think Archie signed Melbourne as a wingback but he went for 4-2-3-1 rather than 3-5-2.

3-5-2 also requires you 3 midfielders to get up and down the park and for at least 2 of them to be defensively minded. I don't think that describes too many of our midfielders and its certainly not Harkins game. Its also difficult to see where Cardle would fit in that system

I would assume that means we will be playing 4-4-2 to accomodate Harkins in the Centre and Cardle on the left but that then means that Saunders plays and Elliot doesn't. Also means that Keown plays or we have to sign a right-sided central defender. We also need a wide right sided midfielder but perhaps the idea is to move Elliot in front of Saunders and we line up something like this?

Hazard

Saunders-Keown or New signing-McGinty orNew Signing -Penrice

Elliot-Harkins-Bannigan-Cardle

Doolan-Coulibally

If correct or close the spine of team looks defensively weak at the moment

 

 

 

no slater ?

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2 hours ago, Third Lanark said:

So far you have been spot on with the signings. Have you heard if there’s any truth in the odea rumour?

No heard nothing in that rumor, looking for a few more loans and if we can off load a few a few permanent additions 

I hadn’t heard of Harkins or Saunders being looked at so not heard all the news.

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26 minutes ago, laukat said:

I would say your analysis is spot on. 3-5-2 is generally deployed when you have to play counter-attacking football because you don't have or want a lot of possession. We don't have 2 wingbacks we have 1 wingback (elliot) and 1/2 fullbacks (Penrice/Scobbie). I think Archie signed Melbourne as a wingback but he went for 4-2-3-1 rather than 3-5-2.

3-5-2 also requires you 3 midfielders to get up and down the park and for at least 2 of them to be defensively minded. I don't think that describes too many of our midfielders and its certainly not Harkins game. Its also difficult to see where Cardle would fit in that system

I would assume that means we will be playing 4-4-2 to accomodate Harkins in the Centre and Cardle on the left but that then means that Saunders plays and Elliot doesn't. Also means that Keown plays or we have to sign a right-sided central defender. We also need a wide right sided midfielder but perhaps the idea is to move Elliot in front of Saunders and we line up something like this?

Hazard

Saunders-Keown or New signing-McGinty orNew Signing -Penrice

Elliot-Harkins-Bannigan-Cardle

Doolan-Coulibally

If correct or close the spine of team looks defensively weak at the moment

 

 

 

Coulinbaly is no where near ready to get back playing again let alone starting, regardless what he’s spouting on Twitter 

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5 minutes ago, watties wallies said:

no slater ?

As he's right footed but not a wide right player it would have to be a choice between Harkins on Slater. Harkins is Caldwells signing so I'm assuming he'll start

2 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

or Spittal, or Roy

.........or Erskine?

Spittal and Erskine are going to be competing for one of the midfield spots. Hard to see how Bannigan is not guaranteed a place. Cardle and Harkins are Caldwell signings so that leaves them fighting for one spot

Roy will be fighting for the spot beside Doolan. So has to get past Storey and Coulibally.

I should say that first 11 isn't my preference just where I think the new signings take us. If I was picking an eleven the selection process would be which other9 do I put in beside Erskine and Doolan?

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1 minute ago, laukat said:

Shame. I think we'll need him.

Despite a full preseason with us, a month or two till his clearance came through he was clearly still unfit when he played the 2 or 3 games he got before injury. For a professional footballer who had apparently kept himself in tip top condition whilst not playing (according to his tweets) he clearly hadn’t and was still carrying some lumber in the games he played. 

So far he’s brought very little to the club,I don’t expect much before May 

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It was inevitable that Caldwell would be given a Transfer Window and judgement has to be reserved until we see the new signings play...but Caldwell has failed already so I have a negative view and am underwhelmed.  We desperately need competent central defenders and Saunders looks a decent signing,  I was a big fan of Harkins but fear he is well past his sell-by date, the others I remain to be convinced and I didn't think a goalkeeper was a priority.

Archie was rightly criticised for his recruitment but O'Ware and Slater were good signings, Coulibally has played at a higher level  and I don't share the view that Bell has been terrible...Storer and Quitongo were worth a punt but were young men with anger management issues. ..Mutumbo, Ntambwe, Scobbie and Jeffries just filled the available squad places and are not up to standard - worryingly Caldwell has selected the latter two as first choices.

The quality in this League is not high - Dunfermline, Morton and Queen of the South looked poorer sides than us but they are all within a win of a play-off place. Caldwell has not got the most out of the squad to date - Bannigan is probably the best midfielder in the Division...Penrice, McCarthy and Fitzpatrick have not played to their potential...and then there's Doolan & Erskine.  They have proved themselves in the top Division but undoubtedly have not been at their best over the last 18 months.  I commented  last season that Storey and Sammon did not suit the quick passing game that was our strength...the decline in Doolan & Erskine's form has coincided with Storey's Inclusion in the side - I can't think of a single decent cross or exchange of passes  involving Storey - even more telling than his appalling scoring record is that he has only managed one assist in all the games he has played for us.

Erskine has contributed more goals and assists in his fleeting appearances this season...his appearance for the second half last Saturday led to an immediate improvement in the team's performance...whenever he has been substituted, the possibility of a defence being opened up has declined.  Erskine has made a real connection with Thistle Fans, Caldwell has made absolutely none. I don't expect us to make a signing of the ability or entertainment value of Chris Erskine...I hope he remains at Firhill after Caldwell.

I was positive about Caldwell's appointment but posted at the time that he could talk the talk...his brief was to challenge for promotion but he hasn't walked the walk...he has tripped over his ego and fallen flat on his face. I was taken aback when I read the vitriol from the Chesterfield fans but the perceived failings seem to have been repeated. Caldwell claimed not to have been given a transfer budget but a Chesterfield fan mentioned that the host of signings were a mixture of experienced duds and hopeless youngsters.

It won't take much to improve the current side but staying up this season is hardly an achievement. 

 

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1 hour ago, allyo said:

I really hope I'm wrong. 

But none of this is exciting me. What I reckoned we needed was a manager who would get the best out of our existing team; not one who'd make it worse and then rely on a complete mid season rebuild to try to save us from disaster. 

I know there are some on here who think the players, and lack of quality, was the insurmountable problem; and that this is the first chance to address that. I didn't see it that way, but I do now genuinely hope that it is the case.

I certainly wish all the new recruits, and Gary Caldwell, all the very best in trying to turn this around. 

Good post , I can’t think of one player who has showed improvement under Gary Caldwell, the rhetoric we got was young exciting team going for promotion, the reality is somewhat different.

In his tenure, at the half way point we’ve only won 1 game all season, Archibald had won 3 games out of 6 before he was sacked with the same players .

We’ve had the embarrassment of the ParaTrooper Training down at Garelochhead which some of the players lost a lot of respect for him because the Daily Record turned up for a photo opportunity.

We’ve had calls for Doolan and Erskine to be replaced because of their form and possibly their age , what does Caldwell do brings in Cardle and Harkins who are actually older than the aforementioned. 

This is a damage limitation exercise to avoid relegation, I wish all the new signings the best of luck, think they’ll need it .

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5 minutes ago, Winter of '63 said:

It was inevitable that Caldwell would be given a Transfer Window and judgement has to be reserved until we see the new signings play...but Caldwell has failed already so I have a negative view and am underwhelmed.  We desperately need competent central defenders and Saunders looks a decent signing,  I was a big fan of Harkins but fear he is well past his sell-by date, the others I remain to be convinced and I didn't think a goalkeeper was a priority.

Archie was rightly criticised for his recruitment but O'Ware and Slater were good signings, Coulibally has played at a higher level  and I don't share the view that Bell has been terrible...Storer and Quitongo were worth a punt but were young men with anger management issues. ..Mutumbo, Ntambwe, Scobbie and Jeffries just filled the available squad places and are not up to standard - worryingly Caldwell has selected the latter two as first choices.

The quality in this League is not high - Dunfermline, Morton and Queen of the South looked poorer sides than us but they are all within a win of a play-off place. Caldwell has not got the most out of the squad to date - Bannigan is probably the best midfielder in the Division...Penrice, McCarthy and Fitzpatrick have not played to their potential...and then there's Doolan & Erskine.  They have proved themselves in the top Division but undoubtedly have not been at their best over the last 18 months.  I commented  last season that Storey and Sammon did not suit the quick passing game that was our strength...the decline in Doolan & Erskine's form has coincided with Storey's Inclusion in the side - I can't think of a single decent cross or exchange of passes  involving Storey - even more telling than his appalling scoring record is that he has only managed one assist in all the games he has played for us.

Erskine has contributed more goals and assists in his fleeting appearances this season...his appearance for the second half last Saturday led to an immediate improvement in the team's performance...whenever he has been substituted, the possibility of a defence being opened up has declined.  Erskine has made a real connection with Thistle Fans, Caldwell has made absolutely none. I don't expect us to make a signing of the ability or entertainment value of Chris Erskine...I hope he remains at Firhill after Caldwell.

I was positive about Caldwell's appointment but posted at the time that he could talk the talk...his brief was to challenge for promotion but he hasn't walked the walk...he has tripped over his ego and fallen flat on his face. I was taken aback when I read the vitriol from the Chesterfield fans but the perceived failings seem to have been repeated. Caldwell claimed not to have been given a transfer budget but a Chesterfield fan mentioned that the host of signings were a mixture of experienced duds and hopeless youngsters.

It won't take much to improve the current side but staying up this season is hardly an achievement. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Good post , I can’t think of one player who has showed improvement under Gary Caldwell, the rhetoric we got was young exciting team going for promotion, the reality is somewhat different.

In his tenure, at the half way point we’ve only won 1 game all season, Archibald had won 3 games out of 6 before he was sacked with the same players .

We’ve had the embarrassment of the ParaTrooper Training down at Garelochhead which some of the players lost a lot of respect for him because the Daily Record turned up for a photo opportunity.

We’ve had calls for Doolan and Erskine to be replaced because of their form and possibly their age , what does Caldwell do brings in Cardle and Harkins who are actually older than the aforementioned. 

This is a damage limitation exercise to avoid relegation, I wish all the new signings the best of luck, think they’ll need it .

New year, same old problem ran out of likes. Good posts.

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4 hours ago, Weebaw1 said:

Spittal has had 2 good games this season.

That's absolute nonsense. What is it you have against the lad? I seem to mind Spittal being clearly the best player (possibly the only decent performer) against Alloa and you made a post putting him in the "utter garbage" category.  Your comment might have been acceptable if referring to the latter part of last season but certainly not that game or most other games this season.

This season I'd class Spittal as one of the few players that should escape much of the deserved general criticism of the squad. More than occasionally he slips out of a game, but despite having to change his position mainly he's added a bit of determination to his game that was missing before. 

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8 minutes ago, steve61 said:

If you don't know how signing a GK, CB, CM and CF strengthen the spine, I'd be wasting my time explaining.

Sorry, I realise we've added to the spine of the squad in numbers, which is perhaps what you were meaning. Apologies if that's the case.

I'm far from convinced we've strengthened the spine of a likely starting XI. Saunders ahead of Keown, granted but I'd imagine behind O'Ware. Harkins, has been played wide in recent past and I doubt he'll have the industry to hold down a central role. The goalie and the Roy fella, all I can say is fingers crossed.

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3 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Sorry, I realise we've added to the spine of the squad in numbers, which is perhaps what you were meaning. Apologies if that's the case.

I'm far from convinced we've strengthened the spine of a likely starting XI. Saunders ahead of Keown, granted but I'd imagine behind O'Ware. Harkins, has been played wide in recent past and I doubt he'll have the industry to hold down a central role. The goalie and the Roy fella, all I can say is fingers crossed.

No problems. I certainly meant numbers as opposed to starting XI.  I would think Hazard will start, otherwise why sign him? Saunders i agree with you, will start until O'Ware is back. Harkins I expect will start too, not sure what role. As for Roy up front, I don't know what he is capable of, so maybe a plan B from the bench.

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1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

That's absolute nonsense. What is it you have against the lad? I seem to mind Spittal being clearly the best player (possibly the only decent performer) against Alloa and you made a post putting him in the "utter garbage" category.  Your comment might have been acceptable if referring to the latter part of last season but certainly not that game or most other games this season.

This season I'd class Spittal as one of the few players that should escape much of the deserved general criticism of the squad. More than occasionally he slips out of a game, but despite having to change his position mainly he's added a bit of determination to his game that was missing before. 

Spittal has shown he has ability which clearly some of his colleagues clearly do not.

Occasionally he’ll make a magnificent run, beating man after man. People like you love that. But it’s no good when his final ball reaches oblivion. There’s a reason we don’t score many goals and you are far too accepting of this.

His strike against QoS was brilliant and he had a great game that day. Similarly, the way he scored the free kick rebound was a natural finish that an International player would be proud of. I loved these rare glimpses.

I have little recall of the Alloa game other than the whole team being ‘utter garbage’ as it was as bad as all the other home games.

He has been ‘more determined’ as you describe but I can’t think of too many assists, if any. 

I have nothing against the guy, willing him to succeed like any Jags player.  But he rarely creates opportunities which a player of his ability should.

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Now it's all down to "let's see" with the start of the Caldwell's "new look" team. If somehow Thistle get a win at Tannadice, I'll start to believe. Any other result, I'll be thinking "more of the same dossiers, philosophy, and Powerpoint presentations" that appear to have delighted whoever made the final decision to appoint him.

I genuinely hope all of the new signings do well for us. But I'm worried to see a loanee from Govan or the east end of Glasgow automatically displacing a Jags player  regardless of how well the Jag has been playing. Even worse will be if he continues to get chosen despite doing us obvious damage. The case in  point of course is: Hazard in, Sneddon dropped. Yes, Sneddon got caught in no-man's land last week; what keeper has that never happened to? What if Hazard doesn't look too great as we ship goals? Will he continue to be first choice just because he is from Porkheid? I will always believe that McCall's insistence on playing yon clearly garbage wee *un runt Lennon stopped what looked like a potential promotion winning squad in its tracks.

All the best to those travelling to Dundee. A few shouts in support of Erskine would be appreciated.

Edited by Jaggernaut
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Honestly don't rate many players this season, wouldn't mind if any of the below leave:

Bell, Lennox, Keown, McGinty, Scobbie, Jeffries, Elliot,Gordon, Ntambwe, Spittal, Mutombo, Storey.

Jurys still out on Erskine and Doolan this season but I'd give them a chance with the new players coming in to see if anything improves.

 

Of the new signings I just hope they aren't any worse than what we already have. Saunders should improve the defence, with Cardle and Harkins improving chances created. Ally Roy is a difficult one to judge at only 21, so will give him benefit of doubt, and Conor Hazard can't be any worse than Bell or Lennox.

We've been here before though, and signing so many players at once could make us even worse before we get any better.

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“Getting back to playing the Patrick thistle way” =  pushing players out the door who have a great affinity with the club and its supporters.   

Same player being supposedly finished but a was player of year last season and b the players signed to replace him are older than him. 

I think the signings are ok for this division to be fair to Caldwell  I do however question the strategy in some of the signings  

it is however exciting to be going to a game today with genuinely no idea how the game will go  if these new guys all click, them we may immediately look a better team  we need to as I believe Falkirk have strengthened well  

 

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