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What you say is quite correct Allyo, but no one is saying he should not be allowed to structure the squad as he sees fit. 

The problem I, and others have, is concern about his ability do so effectively. So far he has been an unmitigated disaster in managing the current squad, and we can only hope that his judgement in signing players is better.  So far the jury is out - he has at most 3 weeks to prove that he can turn things round.  I hope that he can.

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2 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

What you say is quite correct Allyo, but no one is saying he should not be allowed to structure the squad as he sees fit. 

The problem I, and others have, is concern about his ability do so effectively. So far he has been an unmitigated disaster in managing the current squad, and we can only hope that his judgement in signing players is better.  So far the jury is out - he has at most 3 weeks to prove that he can turn things round.  I hope that he can.

I don’t disagree .... he’s probably got into next month to prove things.are changing 

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16 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

What you say is quite correct Allyo, but no one is saying he should not be allowed to structure the squad as he sees fit. 

The problem I, and others have, is concern about his ability do so effectively. So far he has been an unmitigated disaster in managing the current squad, and we can only hope that his judgement in signing players is better.  So far the jury is out - he has at most 3 weeks to prove that he can turn things round.  I hope that he can.

I definitely share your concern Eljaggo

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9 minutes ago, allyo said:

I'd be very sorry to see Chris Erskine go. If it happens then it will be a sad day. He's obviously been one of my favourite players of the last ten years.

However, his form has been inconsistent, and while Gary Caldwell is the manager (however unpalatable that may be) it has to be his decision. This is just the way of it.

I had a problem with last week's statement (which was just weird), and I have a problem with Gary Caldwell being our manager, purely based on results. But I don't have a problem with him being allowed to structue the squad as he sees fit.

In general I agree that the manager can/should have the right to restructure the playing squad but I disagree with what he has done with Erskine.

If as a manager if you get rid of a fans favourite then there are ways of doing it.  Number one is do it from a position of strength (i.e. win a couple of games or sign someone better first or do it when the player isn't attracting higher level offers). 

If you can't do it form a position of strength then start prepping the fans by explaining in a rational way why you think its needed (i.e. a luxury we can't afford right now, need the budget for more defensively minded players as we need to be harder to beat, need someone able to play the full 90 minutes etc)

Lambie let Chico go on a free but he knew how to manage the situation. Part of Caldwell's job is to manage situations and he's failing miserably at this. Add that to not being able to get results, get the fans on board and so far questionable recruitment it leaves questions. The biggest question being what part of football management is Gary Caldwell actually competent at?

 

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javejag's probably right about a next month deadline. I feel he either should've been sacked after the County (maybe Morton) game or given the whole of the transfer window. A lot would've depended, re the former, on Gerry B being kept in the loop re signing targets. Whatever, we're going to struggle to get any quality replacement manager in place before the end of the season.

A likely scenario, if Caldwell goes, will be a temporary appointment from within the Club out of necessity if nothing else.  I suppose some sort of emergency management involving Doolan and Erskine would've been considered. I'm not paranoid, really. 

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32 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

If, and it's a big if, we were doing better, the reaction to Erskine leaving would be completely different because of one simple fact - he's made little or no positive contribution to the team either this season or last. And the argument that he would have done better if only he'd been given more game time won't wash - he's had numerous opportunities to show the kind of performance he was capable of in the past and it's just not happened. For all his undoubted love for the club and all the tremendous things he's done in his time with Thistle, he was never going to be more than a squad player this season. However, him going to Livingston reflects badly on Caldwell simply because it shows, yet again, a lack of judgement on his part. He's on the record as saying that his biggest mistake at Chesterfield was losing the fans - well, guess what, Gary...

If another manager was responsible for this, we might be saying, shame to see him go, but a good bit of business if we can bring in someone better. So, over to you, Mr. Caldwell.

Last season Erskine scored 9 goals in all competitions, in 42 appearances (many as sub). He also had many assists (someone can check this- I'm not sure where).

According to the stats watch thread- this season to date: "With his 6th goal of the season, Blair Spittal extends his lead to 2 at the top of our competitive goals chart for 2018-19. His goals/assists combi-total (10) is 4 ahead of his nearest team-mates (Erskine, Slater and Doolan), all of whom sit with 6. "

Therefore, at the risk of repeating myself (seeing that other posters don't have a problem doing this), Erskine is joint second in the goals/assists combi total this season despite his limited time on the park.

This is a positive contribution. More so (in an attacking sense) than most of the squad. He's not the player he was. But he's still very handy to have around.

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34 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

If, and it's a big if, we were doing better, the reaction to Erskine leaving would be completely different because of one simple fact - he's made little or no positive contribution to the team either this season or last. And the argument that he would have done better if only he'd been given more game time won't wash - he's had numerous opportunities to show the kind of performance he was capable of in the past and it's just not happened. For all his undoubted love for the club and all the tremendous things he's done in his time with Thistle, he was never going to be more than a squad player this season. However, him going to Livingston reflects badly on Caldwell simply because it shows, yet again, a lack of judgement on his part. He's on the record as saying that his biggest mistake at Chesterfield was losing the fans - well, guess what, Gary...

If another manager was responsible for this, we might be saying, shame to see him go, but a good bit of business if we can bring in someone better. So, over to you, Mr. Caldwell.

...apart from scoring the winning goals against Falkirk and Morton. How is Storey doing in comparison?

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2 minutes ago, Duke Gekantawa said:

Last season Erskine scored 9 goals in all competitions, in 42 appearances (many as sub). He also had many assists (someone can check this- I'm not sure where).

According to the stats watch thread- this season to date: "With his 6th goal of the season, Blair Spittal extends his lead to 2 at the top of our competitive goals chart for 2018-19. His goals/assists combi-total (10) is 4 ahead of his nearest team-mates (Erskine, Slater and Doolan), all of whom sit with 6. "

Therefore, at the risk of repeating myself (seeing that other posters don't have a problem doing this), Erskine is joint second in the goals/assists combi total this season despite his limited time on the park.

This is a positive contribution. More so (in an attacking sense) than most of the squad. He's not the player he was. But he's still very handy to have around.

Archie signed him but rarely started him so I doubt any manager would guarantee him a first team place 

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35 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

If, and it's a big if, we were doing better, the reaction to Erskine leaving would be completely different because of one simple fact - he's made little or no positive contribution to the team either this season or last. And the argument that he would have done better if only he'd been given more game time won't wash - he's had numerous opportunities to show the kind of performance he was capable of in the past and it's just not happened. For all his undoubted love for the club and all the tremendous things he's done in his time with Thistle, he was never going to be more than a squad player this season. However, him going to Livingston reflects badly on Caldwell simply because it shows, yet again, a lack of judgement on his part. He's on the record as saying that his biggest mistake at Chesterfield was losing the fans - well, guess what, Gary...

If another manager was responsible for this, we might be saying, shame to see him go, but a good bit of business if we can bring in someone better. So, over to you, Mr. Caldwell.

With Erskine starting we've won 3 of our 9 league games this season (he scored the winner in 2). Without him we've won 1 of 12. 

He may not be playing at his best level ever (pretty difficult in the circumstances) but this idea that we can afford to let him go is utterly absurd.

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10 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

javejag's probably right about a next month deadline. I feel he either should've been sacked after the County (maybe Morton) game or given the whole of the transfer window. A lot would've depended, re the former, on Gerry B being kept in the loop re signing targets. Whatever, we're going to struggle to get any quality replacement manager in place before the end of the season.

A likely scenario, if Caldwell goes, will be a temporary appointment from within the Club out of necessity if nothing else.  I suppose some sort of emergency management involving Doolan and Erskine would've been considered. I'm not paranoid, really. 

Would say that's the main reason Chris Erskine's services have been dispensed of. Caldwell will be congratulating himself with making a smart move,  taking out a viable option to replace him.

It seems that Caldwell is not satisfied with building his own gallows at record speed. He has now moved onto the rope and tightening it around his neck.

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3 minutes ago, javeajag said:

I’m not sure we know Caldwell released erskine maybe erskine asked to leave 

If he asked to leave, WHY did he ask to leave?

And why could the manager not win him over to stay? Did he try? Did he fail, or did he not try?

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6 minutes ago, jaf said:

If he asked to leave, WHY did he ask to leave?

And why could the manager not win him over to stay? Did he try? Did he fail, or did he not try?

All your showing is that there are a lot of questions we don’t know the answer to so maybe draw conclusions till after they have been answered 

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2 minutes ago, AndyMac said:

Would say that's the main reason Chris Erskine's services have been dispensed of. Caldwell will be congratulating himself with making a smart move,  taking out a viable option to replace him.

It seems that Caldwell is not satisfied with building his own gallows at record speed. He has now moved onto the rope and tightening it around his neck.

If Caldwell goes - We will end up with Scott Allison ( again ) with Dools as Assistant to shut up he Fans - its just one big merry go round with no obviuos sign that there is some sort of plan ( assuming they accept that "promotion is still the plan" is no longer viable 

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2 minutes ago, javeajag said:

All your showing is that there are a lot of questions we don’t know the answer to so maybe draw conclusions till after they have been answered 

On every single thread you seem intent on shutting down opinions that are based on pretty sound rationale, logic and assumption.

We are bottom of the league. Caldwell has made us significantly worse. He is now letting go one of our most popular and committed players, to a team in the league above. This is a catastrophic situation all round - why the continual apologism? 

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6 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

On every single thread you seem intent on shutting down opinions that are based on pretty sound rationale, logic and assumption.

We are bottom of the league. Caldwell has made us significantly worse. He is now letting go one of our most popular and committed players, to a team in the league above. This is a catastrophic situation all round - why the continual apologism? 

You asked lots of questions we don’t know the answer to  ...on something that hasn’t happened     

but let’s  make up / speculate the answers on the basis it’s all Caldwell’s fault 

I’d just rather have some facts 

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Edited by javeajag
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6 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

On every single thread you seem intent on shutting down opinions that are based on pretty sound rationale, logic and assumption.

We are bottom of the league. Caldwell has made us significantly worse. He is now letting go one of our most popular and committed players, to a team in the league above. This is a catastrophic situation all round - why the continual apologism? 

I think it's called a difference of opinion. It's kind of the point of the forum. Viva la difference.

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I think it's reasonable to say Erskine did not want to leave. His recent interview on Jagszone expressed genuine doubt as to why Caldwell was not giving him more game time, he sounded disillusioned with things. So likely he felt he wasn't really wanted. Curious that an SPL club sitting comfortably in 7th position want him yet we (bottom of the championship) don't value him when we are lacking creativity in the final third. Maybe Caldwell has a creative player in mind to fill his boots, someone who will help propel us up the league. Aye, maybe.

His track record clearly suggests otherwise and I suspect what remaining goodwill giving him 'the benefit of the doubt' is but one defeat away from evoporating completely. I expect us to win on Saturday, I expect us to win the following Sat against QoS, because we must. He would never have been given the job had the board known the results he was going to get. So enough excuses, Caldwell must start winning now. No more the ref, the away dugout influencing the ref, the fine margins, the great weeks of training, the 30 sec warm up at the start of the second half, away days with the SAS, changing the dugout to be nearer the half way line, the tweets of wisdom. Just do what you were hired to do or **** off.

 

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