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11 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Yeah that’s working , where are we in the league?

Doesn’t really work that way in a provincial club where senior pros like Erskine, Doolan and to a lesser extent Cammy Bell have an influence on the younger players because of the careers they have had over a long period of time . We’ve haven’t got a massive first team squad in the first place , so what happens if Mcginty or Saunders gets injured , are we going to call Niall Keown from the youth team

 

It doesn’t lead to a group of players wanting to burst their guts for their manager when they see their teammates isolated from the group .

If you treat people with respect, you’ll maybe get a bit of respect back 

The clock is ticking on Caldwell , he’s done nothing to justify his arrogance.

If Niall keown is being paid a wage then he has no grounds for saying no if he is told to play in the first team surely 

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8 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Move them on then , Falkirk did it on the 4 th January, paid up contracts , players left the club and they got new players in .

We’re still messing around on the last week of January, surely if you’ve got  new players in at the start of January there might be an improvement in results in all the January fixtures.

This is the problem we can only move them on if the players will move on themselves. Don’t you think it’s a bit rich that bell who was costing us a goal a game is whinging about being told to play with the youth team when he has already been told he can go, but won’t go because he is on a decent wage. He can’t have it both ways.  If it was as bad as he is making out he would have been off regardless of how decent a wage he was on.

bell only has himself to blame if he kept himself fit and had put in a decent shift he would be our number 1 instead he was a calamity and as causing us a goal a game- he is completely to blame for the situation he is in. If he doesn’t like it he is free to find another club, but instead seems far too convenient for him picking up a good wage here

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The jury is out on the new signings and what impact they will have but on the positive side the board have certainly backed their manager and whilst I've not agreed with most of Caldwell's decisions he has at least been decisive.

In comparision towards the end of Archie's reign and in particular last season we became a bit of a home for broken down players and became afraid of upsetting some of them.

Hopefully Caldwell's team start to show they can win today. Losing isn't an option and even a draw isn't enough.

 

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1 minute ago, jlsarmy said:

Surely it would be better to train at a higher level with the first team players in case of injuries , suspensions .

It would be better if he would just leave so we could get a far better player in - already been mentioned he is our highest earner and he has been appalling for 18 months. If getting him off the books means a better defender can be brought in then so be it.

im surprised you can defend him he is one of the players that got us relegated in the first place. Has been rubbish under 2 managers this season - the sooner he goes the better 

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36 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

Delighted to hear he's training with the youths. Delighted he's nowhere near the first team. I was always concerned that we were too 'nice' under Archibald - too many 'really nice guys' signed who fitted well into the squad, but made us an easy three points all too often.  Time to get some right ******** in. Time for some ruthlessness. It's not a youth club we're running - seriously don't care if some 'senior pro' has his nose out of joint because he's been held to account for some frankly attrocious performances. There are a few others in that squad I hope are training with him and the youths...

^ this. 

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23 minutes ago, jlsarmy said:

Yeah that’s working , where are we in the league?

Doesn’t really work that way in a provincial club where senior pros like Erskine, Doolan and to a lesser extent Cammy Bell have an influence on the younger players because of the careers they have had over a long period of time . We’ve haven’t got a massive first team squad in the first place , so what happens if Mcginty or Saunders gets injured , are we going to call Niall Keown from the youth team

 

It doesn’t lead to a group of players wanting to burst their guts for their manager when they see their teammates isolated from the group .

If you treat people with respect, you’ll maybe get a bit of respect back 

The clock is ticking on Caldwell , he’s done nothing to justify his arrogance.

We are where we are in the league BECAUSE we've been 'too nice' in the past! Really time for a bit of ruthlessness. "Doesn't work that way in a provincial club"? Really? You think Lambie and Auld were successful because they were nice guys? Or Stein or Shankly or Busby or Ferguson? I get you just want to criticise Caldwell, but in this case, he's spot on.

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5 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

This is the problem we can only move them on if the players will move on themselves. Don’t you think it’s a bit rich that bell who was costing us a goal a game is whinging about being told to play with the youth team when he has already been told he can go, but won’t go because he is on a decent wage. He can’t have it both ways.  If it was as bad as he is making out he would have been off regardless of how decent a wage he was on.

bell only has himself to blame if he kept himself fit and had put in a decent shift he would be our number 1 instead he was a calamity and as causing us a goal a game- he is completely to blame for the situation he is in. If he doesn’t like it he is free to find another club, but instead seems far too convenient for him picking up a good wage here

Totally the Club’s fault in giving him a 2 year contract and he’s only 6 months into it .

If you’re the player you’re going to sit tight until you’re paid up .

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6 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

We are where we are in the league BECAUSE we've been 'too nice' in the past! Really time for a bit of ruthlessness. "Doesn't work that way in a provincial club"? Really? You think Lambie and Auld were successful because they were nice guys? Or Stein or Shankly or Busby or Ferguson? I get you just want to criticise Caldwell, but in this case, he's spot on.

We are where we are in the league because of Gary Caldwell, his methods are clearly working.

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1 minute ago, jlsarmy said:

Totally the Club’s fault in giving him a 2 year contract and he’s only 6 months into it .

If you’re the player you’re going to sit tight until you’re paid up .

Even given brice a full 1 year deal as well- guy played 30 games in 5 years- should have been an initial 6 months with option of existing.  Not sure if it was Gerry who had a say in these contracts.

 

going back to bells whinging- I don’t think a real manager like McCall would have kept him on with his poor fitness either- it’s entirely a mess of bells own making 

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2 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Even given brice a full 1 year deal as well- guy played 30 games in 5 years- should have been an initial 6 months with option of existing.  Not sure if it was Gerry who had a say in these contracts.

 

going back to bells whinging- I don’t think a real manager like McCall would have kept him on with his poor fitness either- it’s entirely a mess of bells own making 

Not disagreeing with you but it’s the Club that’s messed up by giving Cammy Bell a 2 year contract in the first place , as I said I don’t rate Cammy Bell but he’s holding all the cards , either picks up his wage for the next 18 months or try to work his ticket by putting it out in the public domain to get the club to pay up the rest of his contract 

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1 minute ago, jlsarmy said:

Not disagreeing with you but it’s the Club that’s messed up by giving Cammy Bell a 2 year contract in the first place , as I said I don’t rate Cammy Bell but he’s holding all the cards , either picks up his wage for the next 18 months or try to work his ticket by putting it out in the public domain to get the club to pay up the rest of his contract 

No win or appearance money? He will move. 

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1 hour ago, Firhillista said:

Delighted to hear he's training with the youths. Delighted he's nowhere near the first team. I was always concerned that we were too 'nice' under Archibald - too many 'really nice guys' signed who fitted well into the squad, but made us an easy three points all too often.  Time to get some right ******** in. Time for some ruthlessness. It's not a youth club we're running - seriously don't care if some 'senior pro' has his nose out of joint because he's been held to account for some frankly attrocious performances. There are a few others in that squad I hope are training with him and the youths...

Exactly too long despite what the club have said we have been the cuddly toy of Scottish football.  

When McCall came in I’m pretty sure he too moved on quite a few of Campbell’s signings that did nothing and were on long cushy contracts.  The sooner guys like Bell, Keown go the better 

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44 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

We are where we are in the league BECAUSE we've been 'too nice' in the past! Really time for a bit of ruthlessness. "Doesn't work that way in a provincial club"? Really? You think Lambie and Auld were successful because they were nice guys? Or Stein or Shankly or Busby or Ferguson? I get you just want to criticise Caldwell, but in this case, he's spot on.

All great managers, but today players hold all the power, look at how Guardiola and Klopp man manage their players including the players who aren’t playing.

The reverse is true in the autocratic way that Mourinho lost the Chelsea and Man Utd jobs , the players just downed tools and didn’t want to work for the manager .

Solskjaer has exactly the same players as Mourinho but they want to play for him.

I’m not sure Caldwell has everyone on board even within the Club , time will tell .

 

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Yeah that’s working , where are we in the league?

Doesn’t really work that way in a provincial club where senior pros like Erskine, Doolan and to a lesser extent Cammy Bell have an influence on the younger players because of the careers they have had over a long period of time . We’ve haven’t got a massive first team squad in the first place , so what happens if Mcginty or Saunders gets injured , are we going to call Niall Keown from the youth team

 

It doesn’t lead to a group of players wanting to burst their guts for their manager when they see their teammates isolated from the group .

If you treat people with respect, you’ll maybe get a bit of respect back 

The clock is ticking on Caldwell , he’s done nothing to justify his arrogance.

This, sadly. Sending senior pros to train away from the main squad is a bit petty,

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1 hour ago, jlsarmy said:

Move them on then , Falkirk did it on the 4 th January, paid up contracts , players left the club and they got new players in .

We’re still messing around on the last week of January, surely if you’ve got  new players in at the start of January there might be an improvement in results in all the January fixtures.

We can always do that next week

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So Keown is forced to train with the reserves and meanwhile we had a bench with no defenders last week. There’s being decisive and showing you’re in control, then there being naive and leaving yourself massively exposed in the event of an injury or red card. Here’s hoping we sign some defenders soon.

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2 minutes ago, ironfist said:

It’s Caldwell’s prerogative to ship out the dead wood. If it means sending some of them to train with the youths so be it. Keown Bell Mutumbo are all appalling footballers and the sooner they go the better.

Just pay them off then , looks we’re going to be stuck with them now anyway with only 1 week left of the Jan window, can’t see a queue of clubs wanting any them.

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