Dundee United vs. Thistle

[Firhillista]

A lot of the negativity on here is coming from folk who weren't at the game and I absolutely understand that - losing a lead and letting the opposition back into the game in the second half is an all too familiar story, but yesterday's game was a much more positive event than that. The performance in the first half was the best I've seen from a Thistle team in the past twelve months. If we'd gone in three up, United could have had no complaints. They couldn't handle us - the movement from the midfield and the front two had them chasing their tails for the whole of the half. If their goalie hadn't pulled off two great saves and if we'd been a bit sharper in the box, the game would have been over. It was inevitable they were going to come back at us in the second half - they were the home team and looking to challenge for top of the table, so they were bound to be fired up after having escaped lightly from the first half. We coped okay initially, but they were causing us problems, so Caldwell changed things around (he called players over to him and was clearly giving them instructions) and, after a period of adjustment during which we struggled a bit, we began to get a grip, only for the ref to give them one of the softest penalties you'll see in a while. They then had their tails up and it was backs to the wall stuff for the rest of the game, although Roy could have had a sensational debut if he had shown better control near the end.

For me, the most positive thing about yesterday was Gary Harkins. Not that his individual performance was that great - he's capable of playing much better - but with him sitting in the middle in front of the defence, he allowed Bannigan and Slater to run the midfield - they were immense.

And Miles Storey had his best game (first half) in a Thistle jersey. United couldn't cope with him. His pace and strength took him past two and three of the opposition at a time. If he could only learn how to pass/cross ...

As for United, they weren't that good - hopeless in the first half and not that great when they were dominant in the second. I know many will feel that we would have been better off with Neilson in charge at Firhill, but would we have been happy to see Aidan Nisbet rocking up at the Jags? The fact is that there's very little between any of the teams in this league.

What I took away from yesterday is that we won't be relegated. Where we'll finally end up, God knows. Three wins in the next three home games would be a good start.

[jaf]

7 minutes ago, Firhillista said:

A lot of the negativity on here is coming from folk who weren't at the game and I absolutely understand that - losing a lead and letting the opposition back into the game in the second half is an all too familiar story, but yesterday's game was a much more positive event than that. The performance in the first half was the best I've seen from a Thistle team in the past twelve months. If we'd gone in three up, United could have had no complaints. They couldn't handle us - the movement from the midfield and the front two had them chasing their tails for the whole of the half. If their goalie hadn't pulled off two great saves and if we'd been a bit sharper in the box, the game would have been over. It was inevitable they were going to come back at us in the second half - they were the home team and looking to challenge for top of the table, so they were bound to be fired up after having escaped lightly from the first half. We coped okay initially, but they were causing us problems, so Caldwell changed things around (he called players over to him and was clearly giving them instructions) and, after a period of adjustment during which we struggled a bit, we began to get a grip, only for the ref to give them one of the softest penalties you'll see in a while. They then had their tails up and it was backs to the wall stuff for the rest of the game, although Roy could have had a sensational debut if he had shown better control near the end.

For me, the most positive thing about yesterday was Gary Harkins. Not that his individual performance was that great - he's capable of playing much better - but with him sitting in the middle in front of the defence, he allowed Bannigan and Slater to run the midfield - they were immense.

And Miles Storey had his best game (first half) in a Thistle jersey. United couldn't cope with him. His pace and strength took him past two and three of the opposition at a time. If he could only learn how to pass/cross ...

As for United, they weren't that good - hopeless in the first half and not that great when they were dominant in the second. I know many will feel that we would have been better off with Neilson in charge at Firhill, but would we have been happy to see Aidan Nisbet rocking up at the Jags? The fact is that there's very little between any of the teams in this league.

What I took away from yesterday is that we won't be relegated. Where we'll finally end up, God knows. Three wins in the next three home games would be a good start.

Totally agree with your assessment of the game. 

My one difference is about nesbitt. I think he looked a fantastic footballer with quality beyond this level and hunger and desire  and I think he will end up firing Dundee United into the title race. 

[watties wallies]

thanks for that firhillista excellent post

i appreciate its only highlights that i watched, but have been to most games this season, still believe we need someone in midfield with a bit more aggression in the tackle

roll on next saturday, should be a cracking game

onwards and upwards ( well we are bottom )  

 

[Steevo]

Very good post firhillista. This was exactly our view of the game yesterday. Also as an aside,it was as if the ref was goading some fans when he gave the penalty,they tell players not to react !

[sandy]

Thanks for the perspective, Firhillista. 

Good to know there are some promising signs at last. The frustration simply comes from our current league position.

[Jag]

17 hours ago, ironfist said:

Really good performance 1st half. Saunders and hazard look good. Harkins decent in first half but ran out of steam worryingly after half time. Didn’t see enough of cardle or Roy to make judgement. Weak link is Mcginty- he needs to go. Having said that it was never a pen. Nesbit looked awful for them and hearing robbie neilson on the radio afterwards- he is a total ******!!

Never a truer word spoken.

Terrible footballer. Just terrible.

[Jag]

1 hour ago, Firhillista said:

A lot of the negativity on here is coming from folk who weren't at the game and I absolutely understand that - losing a lead and letting the opposition back into the game in the second half is an all too familiar story, but yesterday's game was a much more positive event than that. The performance in the first half was the best I've seen from a Thistle team in the past twelve months. If we'd gone in three up, United could have had no complaints. They couldn't handle us - the movement from the midfield and the front two had them chasing their tails for the whole of the half. If their goalie hadn't pulled off two great saves and if we'd been a bit sharper in the box, the game would have been over. It was inevitable they were going to come back at us in the second half - they were the home team and looking to challenge for top of the table, so they were bound to be fired up after having escaped lightly from the first half. We coped okay initially, but they were causing us problems, so Caldwell changed things around (he called players over to him and was clearly giving them instructions) and, after a period of adjustment during which we struggled a bit, we began to get a grip, only for the ref to give them one of the softest penalties you'll see in a while. They then had their tails up and it was backs to the wall stuff for the rest of the game, although Roy could have had a sensational debut if he had shown better control near the end.

For me, the most positive thing about yesterday was Gary Harkins. Not that his individual performance was that great - he's capable of playing much better - but with him sitting in the middle in front of the defence, he allowed Bannigan and Slater to run the midfield - they were immense.

And Miles Storey had his best game (first half) in a Thistle jersey. United couldn't cope with him. His pace and strength took him past two and three of the opposition at a time. If he could only learn how to pass/cross ...

As for United, they weren't that good - hopeless in the first half and not that great when they were dominant in the second. I know many will feel that we would have been better off with Neilson in charge at Firhill, but would we have been happy to see Aidan Nisbet rocking up at the Jags? The fact is that there's very little between any of the teams in this league.

What I took away from yesterday is that we won't be relegated. Where we'll finally end up, God knows. Three wins in the next three home games would be a good start.

Excellent summary.

[Jag]

2 hours ago, Muscat Jag said:

Looks a pen to me on highlights. McGinty is a liability and needs replaced. Can't get my head around the Ref having a go at supporters after the award. If that's true it is completely unprofessional. 

Does anyone know exactly what he said? 

Yip.

[Auld Jag]

2 hours ago, Firhillista said:

A lot of the negativity on here is coming from folk who weren't at the game and I absolutely understand that - losing a lead and letting the opposition back into the game in the second half is an all too familiar story, but yesterday's game was a much more positive event than that. The performance in the first half was the best I've seen from a Thistle team in the past twelve months. If we'd gone in three up, United could have had no complaints. They couldn't handle us - the movement from the midfield and the front two had them chasing their tails for the whole of the half. If their goalie hadn't pulled off two great saves and if we'd been a bit sharper in the box, the game would have been over. It was inevitable they were going to come back at us in the second half - they were the home team and looking to challenge for top of the table, so they were bound to be fired up after having escaped lightly from the first half. We coped okay initially, but they were causing us problems, so Caldwell changed things around (he called players over to him and was clearly giving them instructions) and, after a period of adjustment during which we struggled a bit, we began to get a grip, only for the ref to give them one of the softest penalties you'll see in a while. They then had their tails up and it was backs to the wall stuff for the rest of the game, although Roy could have had a sensational debut if he had shown better control near the end.

For me, the most positive thing about yesterday was Gary Harkins. Not that his individual performance was that great - he's capable of playing much better - but with him sitting in the middle in front of the defence, he allowed Bannigan and Slater to run the midfield - they were immense.

And Miles Storey had his best game (first half) in a Thistle jersey. United couldn't cope with him. His pace and strength took him past two and three of the opposition at a time. If he could only learn how to pass/cross ...

As for United, they weren't that good - hopeless in the first half and not that great when they were dominant in the second. I know many will feel that we would have been better off with Neilson in charge at Firhill, but would we have been happy to see Aidan Nisbet rocking up at the Jags? The fact is that there's very little between any of the teams in this league.

What I took away from yesterday is that we won't be relegated. Where we'll finally end up, God knows. Three wins in the next three home games would be a good start.

Thanks Firhillista wasn't at the game, listened on the radio. Always good to get a detailed run down of the game from a jag who was there. A few weeks ago when we beat Dunfermline, I thought that was going to be the start of a good run for us. We played well and carried a bit of luck , but we deserved to win. Since then we have played 4 games and only picked up 2 points. Last week against Morton we were terrible for about 70minutes. The first half was the worst I have seen this season. In our current position we need yesterdays result to be the start of a run of games, where we are going to get more good results. Not just a bit of promise to be followed up with mediocre and terrible performances we have seen for the majority of this season. Next week is a must win game.

[ironfist]

3 hours ago, Firhillista said:

A lot of the negativity on here is coming from folk who weren't at the game and I absolutely understand that - losing a lead and letting the opposition back into the game in the second half is an all too familiar story, but yesterday's game was a much more positive event than that. The performance in the first half was the best I've seen from a Thistle team in the past twelve months. If we'd gone in three up, United could have had no complaints. They couldn't handle us - the movement from the midfield and the front two had them chasing their tails for the whole of the half. If their goalie hadn't pulled off two great saves and if we'd been a bit sharper in the box, the game would have been over. It was inevitable they were going to come back at us in the second half - they were the home team and looking to challenge for top of the table, so they were bound to be fired up after having escaped lightly from the first half. We coped okay initially, but they were causing us problems, so Caldwell changed things around (he called players over to him and was clearly giving them instructions) and, after a period of adjustment during which we struggled a bit, we began to get a grip, only for the ref to give them one of the softest penalties you'll see in a while. They then had their tails up and it was backs to the wall stuff for the rest of the game, although Roy could have had a sensational debut if he had shown better control near the end.

For me, the most positive thing about yesterday was Gary Harkins. Not that his individual performance was that great - he's capable of playing much better - but with him sitting in the middle in front of the defence, he allowed Bannigan and Slater to run the midfield - they were immense.

And Miles Storey had his best game (first half) in a Thistle jersey. United couldn't cope with him. His pace and strength took him past two and three of the opposition at a time. If he could only learn how to pass/cross ...

As for United, they weren't that good - hopeless in the first half and not that great when they were dominant in the second. I know many will feel that we would have been better off with Neilson in charge at Firhill, but would we have been happy to see Aidan Nisbet rocking up at the Jags? The fact is that there's very little between any of the teams in this league.

What I took away from yesterday is that we won't be relegated. Where we'll finally end up, God knows. Three wins in the next three home games would be a good start.

Agree completely. There’s been patches of play that have been good in a number of games under Caldwell but the first half yesterday was very good. Remains to be seen if Harkins is capable of managing 90 mins. McGinty good for a goal against per game so hopefully another centre half will arrive soon. 

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

Really don't like this,ran out of likes again. Any chance of getting more likes or is that unlikely ?

We keep asking and never have had a response. An occassional post from the moderator about how and when to complain but.........

[Guest]

17 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

I agree with you. But if we do stay in this league I can see Caldwell and Low, saying something  along the lines of, Caldwell saved us from relegation. When in reality he was brought in to at least challenge for promotion. If not there was no point in sacking our previous management team. Unless they lead us to the very precarious position we now find ourselves in.

Again!!!! Ran out of likes. There's discussion to be had about where we might have been had we styck with Archie and an arguement that we'd be no better or importantly worse off.

Not saying we should've kept with archie.....before the hate posts start. Just making/agreeingvwith you AJ that thus far caldwell has failed in his remit.....so far. We can only wait to see how his signings turn out

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Firhillista said:

A lot of the negativity on here is coming from folk who weren't at the game and I absolutely understand that - losing a lead and letting the opposition back into the game in the second half is an all too familiar story, but yesterday's game was a much more positive event than that. The performance in the first half was the best I've seen from a Thistle team in the past twelve months. If we'd gone in three up, United could have had no complaints. They couldn't handle us - the movement from the midfield and the front two had them chasing their tails for the whole of the half. If their goalie hadn't pulled off two great saves and if we'd been a bit sharper in the box, the game would have been over. It was inevitable they were going to come back at us in the second half - they were the home team and looking to challenge for top of the table, so they were bound to be fired up after having escaped lightly from the first half. We coped okay initially, but they were causing us problems, so Caldwell changed things around (he called players over to him and was clearly giving them instructions) and, after a period of adjustment during which we struggled a bit, we began to get a grip, only for the ref to give them one of the softest penalties you'll see in a while. They then had their tails up and it was backs to the wall stuff for the rest of the game, although Roy could have had a sensational debut if he had shown better control near the end.

For me, the most positive thing about yesterday was Gary Harkins. Not that his individual performance was that great - he's capable of playing much better - but with him sitting in the middle in front of the defence, he allowed Bannigan and Slater to run the midfield - they were immense.

And Miles Storey had his best game (first half) in a Thistle jersey. United couldn't cope with him. His pace and strength took him past two and three of the opposition at a time. If he could only learn how to pass/cross ...

As for United, they weren't that good - hopeless in the first half and not that great when they were dominant in the second. I know many will feel that we would have been better off with Neilson in charge at Firhill, but would we have been happy to see Aidan Nisbet rocking up at the Jags? The fact is that there's very little between any of the teams in this league.

What I took away from yesterday is that we won't be relegated. Where we'll finally end up, God knows. Three wins in the next three home games would be a good start.

Thanks for   this firhillista, great update and helped lift my sunday afternoon mood. The general mood is down more to caldwells failing in his thistle career so far and not so much on this one game but you are right, we shouldn't judge too harshly if we weren't there.

Was there much of an away crowd?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Having to make a forced substitution (Jeffries for Saunders) won't have helped yesterday.  Getting another midfielder on, or Erskine straight, for Doolan might have helped the tempo. Also I'd expect in future we'll get a wee bit longer out of Harkins before he tires. I'm sure as a team we were the happier to hear the final whistle. As a supporter I know I was happy to get the draw the way the 2nd half had panned out.

Firhillista makes a good point about Harkins allowing Bannigan and Slater more freedom. The downside to that being Harkins will struggle from the defensive side.  Playing in front of two competent centrebacks would nullify that downside. Going on yesterday I thought Saunders was looking quite assured, so we might just be half way there on that account.

[Fearchar]

23 hours ago, Paukea said:

It really is an easy fix

week after week Storey,Spittal,Elliott and maybe even Penners do the hard bit and get into great positions but time after time the final ball the last  killer pass fails them.

we seem to be of the opinion that due to them consistently doing the hard parts that one week it will all click into place.

for the last 18 months it hasn't clicked and it's not going to for one simple reason 「THEY AINT GOOD ENOUGH」

spittal can very rarely click and for that reason could maybe scrape the bench but Elliott and Storey just aren't good enough.

it always seems to be these four who are the final ball givers but time after time they let us down and that's because we play wide football and these are the players who go wide.

we must recruit a decent RB and another decent Winger who can deliver a decent cross.

There was at least 3  Golden opportunities to square an easy final ball to score and Elliott and Storey badly let us down 

it cant continue

The alternative is to forget spreading the play to the wings and take it through the centre - the kind of play that resulted in goals from Erskine, Doolan and Lawless in previous seasons. Every opposing manager knows that Partick Thistle teams only need to be kept to the wings to be rendered ineffective. It's the Thistle way of playing, and it's consistent, predictable and loses possession most of the time.

[Third Lanark]

5 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

Thanks Firhillista wasn't at the game, listened on the radio. Always good to get a detailed run down of the game from a jag who was there. A few weeks ago when we beat Dunfermline, I thought that was going to be the start of a good run for us. We played well and carried a bit of luck , but we deserved to win. Since then we have played 4 games and only picked up 2 points. Last week against Morton we were terrible for about 70minutes. The first half was the worst I have seen this season. In our current position we need yesterdays result to be the start of a run of games, where we are going to get more good results. Not just a bit of promise to be followed up with mediocre and terrible performances we have seen for the majority of this season. Next week is a must win game.

Yet we still didn’t deserve to lose last week, Morton were worse, we had a goal offside and 2 potential penalty calls not given 

mortons only chances were the 2 goals both gifted to them the first in particular 

[KemoAvdiu]

1 hour ago, Fearchar said:

The alternative is to forget spreading the play to the wings and take it through the centre - the kind of play that resulted in goals from Erskine, Doolan and Lawless in previous seasons. Every opposing manager knows that Partick Thistle teams only need to be kept to the wings to be rendered ineffective. It's the Thistle way of playing, and it's consistent, predictable and loses possession most of the time.

Agree to a limited extent, you can’t rely on wide play alone. But a lot of our good play and chances yesterday came from the wings. 

[Auld Jag]

37 minutes ago, Third Lanark said:

Yet we still didn’t deserve to lose last week, Morton were worse, we had a goal offside and 2 potential penalty calls not given 

mortons only chances were the 2 goals both gifted to them the first in particular 

Agree. Came out of Firhill last week ,thinking it was a game we should never have lost. But the first 65 minutes or so and first half in particular we were terrible. As I have said I hope we continue to improve on Saturday and get a vital 3 points.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Were we playing with a diamond in midfield?  Harkins at back.  Slater and Bannigan central.  Spittal as #10?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1 hour ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Were we playing with a diamond in midfield?  Harkins at back.  Slater and Bannigan central.  Spittal as #10?

Quite a wide diamond if you know what i mean. Think it looked more like Spittal at right centre and Slater in the forward position. Bannigan definite played left centre and rather reminiscent of the old days when he'd support ATS.

[partickthedog]

1 hour ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Were we playing with a diamond in midfield?  Harkins at back.  Slater and Bannigan central.  Spittal as #10?

I am generally rubbish at spotting and interpreting formations as I am too busy trying to watch the actual play!

Not exactly sure where Spittal was (not intended as a criticism, I was just not tracking him), but can say with assurance that Harkins was playing a deep lying quarter back role, much deeper than I expected. This was generally very effective, except when somebody was running at him with pace. Either he made the tackle or he was quickly bypassed, and on at least one occasion he took a wild lunge at the attacking player and was lucky not to be booked!

Bannigan and Slater were in much more forward positions than I have seen them this season, and were also rather wider, Bannigan on the left and Slater on the right. I really enjoyed this aspect of our play as we seemed to be coming into the box from all angles and not just approaching from the sides which has generally been ineffective. It brought back memories of the days when Bannigan was a regular goal scorer and Slater is of course also dangerous in these positions. From Banzo's interview on Jagzone, it would seem that (as was Slater) he was expected to help out his wingback (which he did) but also to provide cover for Harkins, which was perhaps rather a lot to expect.

However, it all made for a dynamic and exciting (if slightly loose) first half. The trouble came when Harkins tired and then departed, and we could not replicate either the formation or the effectiveness, and we were soon on the back foot and did not recover from this. Introducing Cardle into that mix did not really help, though hopefully he will fare better in other roles in future games.

Not sure if I have answered your question, and all I have probably done is demonstrated my own lack of tactical awareness.

I can see that LIB has replied. Having got so far I have decided to ignore LIB's reply before submitting this, but i know that people like LIB really love pre-empting other posters'replies even more than they love a mazy run by Blair Spittal! 

 

[Jag]

2 hours ago, Lambies Lost Doo said:

Were we playing with a diamond in midfield?  Harkins at back.  Slater and Bannigan central.  Spittal as #10?

I saw it as 4-1-3-2 with Harkins as the one,  Banzo left, and Spittal right.

Whatever way you look at it, the formation worked in the first half and we definitely set up to attack more. There was a reshuffle in the second half to cope with United changes, which left Doolan up front alone and Storey on the right.  We were on the back foot after this and struggled to keep the ball in their half. 

[jaf]

I think when we had the ball it was a diamond. 

When we lost the ball banzo went left and spittal went right and Harkins sat just behind slater in the middle. 

Thats what I thought was going in anyway. Which to be fair to Blair spittal meant he did a lot of work! 

[partickthedog]

Tactical master stroke by Caldwell to sign a sixth player in the transfer window, but not tell anyone about this and then introduce him into Saturday’s line up disguised as Miles Storey. 

Worked an absolute treat in the first half and the new guy was brilliant. I can only presume that the plot was rumbled at halftime and Caldwell was forced to restore the real Miles Storey for the second half.

[Auld Jag]

10 hours ago, partickthedog said:

I am generally rubbish at spotting and interpreting formations as I am too busy trying to watch the actual play!

Not exactly sure where Spittal was (not intended as a criticism, I was just not tracking him), but can say with assurance that Harkins was playing a deep lying quarter back role, much deeper than I expected. This was generally very effective, except when somebody was running at him with pace. Either he made the tackle or he was quickly bypassed, and on at least one occasion he took a wild lunge at the attacking player and was lucky not to be booked!

Bannigan and Slater were in much more forward positions than I have seen them this season, and were also rather wider, Bannigan on the left and Slater on the right. I really enjoyed this aspect of our play as we seemed to be coming into the box from all angles and not just approaching from the sides which has generally been ineffective. It brought back memories of the days when Bannigan was a regular goal scorer and Slater is of course also dangerous in these positions. From Banzo's interview on Jagzone, it would seem that (as was Slater) he was expected to help out his wingback (which he did) but also to provide cover for Harkins, which was perhaps rather a lot to expect.

However, it all made for a dynamic and exciting (if slightly loose) first half. The trouble came when Harkins tired and then departed, and we could not replicate either the formation or the effectiveness, and we were soon on the back foot and did not recover from this. Introducing Cardle into that mix did not really help, though hopefully he will fare better in other roles in future games.

Not sure if I have answered your question, and all I have probably done is demonstrated my own lack of tactical awareness.

I can see that LIB has replied. Having got so far I have decided to ignore LIB's reply before submitting this, but i know that people like LIB really love pre-empting other posters'replies even more than they love a mazy run by Blair Spittal! 

 

Thanks ptd for your opinion on Saturdays game. I always like to read other fans thoughts of the match, particularly when I wasn't there myself. I always like to get the Thistle fans view of the game, to find out how we played, who played well and who didn't. If I am at the game I also find it interesting reading other fans thoughts on the game. Thanks again and also thanks to all the other fans who were at Tannadice  and posted their thoughts.