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Ptfc Trust Update

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A lot of the stuff in this from the manager is ripe for mockery (have we really co-opted the guy that does Jagzone into doing player performance stuff?), but I don’t actually think that’s the important stuff here. 

The bit that really concerns me is supporter representation on the board, and I actually find that section quite concerning. 

I don’t care that it’s not common at Scottish clubs for supporters to be represented on the board. Are supporters the largest shareholders at other clubs? And even regardless of that, wasn’t the Trust formed to show that we were doing things differently?

The line about the board and fans being closer than they’ve ever been is either not intended to read how it does or it’s, well, from another planet. Again that isn’t a criticism of trustees as I’m sure they’re just relaying the comments of the board. But it can’t be deemed to be correct, surely?

The bit about the club board and the Trust meeting after board meetings entirely misses the point. If supporters are the largest shareholders, and if we are serious about supporter engagement and participation, then it is simply not enough to have decisions relayed to you. We (the supporters and the club’s largest shareholders) have to be at the table helping to inform and make those decisions. I find it baffling that this point has either not been made forcefully enough or not been listened to by the board. 

Edited by KemoAvdiu
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I asked Pauline Graham the Trust's chair to ask the Board what the impediments were to the Trust getting a seat on the Board.

Today's statement by the Trust completely fails to answer that question.  Was the Board asked that question Andrew (as Pauline promised)?  If so what did they say?

According to Andrew Byron, I apparently was the only fan to talk to the Trust at their stand in the JHS.  I asked then about Board representation and was told that the Trust needed to show that it represented fans' views to a greater extent than it currently does.  Who told the Trust that, what constitutes sufficient representation, and how do you measure it?

Their statement is vacuous PR spin and the Trust is just a fig leaf and a convenient stooge for the Board.  You either have to doubt the Weirs' true intentions in giving the fans a greater say in the running of the club, or it has been hijacked by someone.

Stick to selling bricks guys.

 

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Caldwell’s bit is baffling.

He’s using the media team to prep the coaches, no disrespect to Graham but should that not be the scouts and managers role?

Hes having reports on players performance and an app created to help him pick his team based on data not feelings, so firstly does he even watch or attend training or is he going to allow a formula in an excel sheet pick the team for him?

 

Trust bit is condescending 

 

Training ground is strange as no new planning application has been received since August’s one was answered in September 

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20 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Caldwell’s bit is baffling.

He’s using the media team to prep the coaches, no disrespect to Graham but should that not be the scouts and managers role?

I think that's a reference to Graham having helped construct their database and the collation of stats.

Edited by Dark Passenger

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Just read the feedback. A lot of information to digest. As always it's easy to hone in on the fine detail and criticise. Look at the big picture and it's reasonably fair to say a lot going on. Most supporters just need the basics. What caught my eye is that we are looking to recruit an experienced striker. That we need.

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2 minutes ago, Dark Passenger said:

I think that's a reference to Graham having helped construct their database and the collation of stats.

That would make sense

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59 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

Just read the feedback. A lot of information to digest. As always it's easy to hone in on the fine detail and criticise. Look at the big picture and it's reasonably fair to say a lot going on. Most supporters just need the basics. What caught my eye is that we are looking to recruit an experienced striker. That we need.

It’s easy to criticise when there’s a lot to criticise! If you’re happy with accepting that there’s “a lot going on” without delving deeper then great, but a lot of people have much wider concerns.

Another striker will be great though.

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4 minutes ago, KemoAvdiu said:

It’s easy to criticise when there’s a lot to criticise! If you’re happy with accepting that there’s “a lot going on” without delving deeper then great, but a lot of people have much wider concerns.

Another striker will be great though.

We have just got two more strikers and he wants to bring in an "experienced" striker. In Doolan do we not have that experienced striker already? The lack of service to the striker is the problem, no? I have only seen 6 games this season but it has been the same pattern since our demise.  Seeing Storey  producing SFA when getting into positions where he can get balls into the striker and then Cardle seemingly doing a damn sight better in one match alone, is it maybe the service rather than the strikers themselves which needs improvement?

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21 minutes ago, Colognejag said:

We have just got two more strikers and he wants to bring in an "experienced" striker. In Doolan do we not have that experienced striker already? The lack of service to the striker is the problem, no? I have only seen 6 games this season but it has been the same pattern since our demise.  Seeing Storey  producing SFA when getting into positions where he can get balls into the striker and then Cardle seemingly doing a damn sight better in one match alone, is it maybe the service rather than the strikers themselves which needs improvement?

In Doolan we have an experienced striker not scoring goals hence we need another. Not entirely sure the point of signing the 2 young lads. Storey like bell Brice etc has been told he can go apparently 

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1 hour ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Some of this openness we can do without. Can't see the benefit in telling us we're looking to sign an experienced striker. 

It's pretty obvious. Hardly the secret of the century. 

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So the statement got its desired affect / say lots and lots - very little of substance 

Key factors ref Training Ground and Board Rep get lost and with no real reply to Fans Questions 

talk about a new striker - fans jump on it 

Straightfoward Question to the Trust / is this written by the Trust and published unedited 

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4 hours ago, eljaggo said:

I asked Pauline Graham the Trust's chair to ask the Board what the impediments were to the Trust getting a seat on the Board.

Today's statement by the Trust completely fails to answer that question.  Was the Board asked that question Andrew (as Pauline promised)?  If so what did they say?

According to Andrew Byron, I apparently was the only fan to talk to the Trust at their stand in the JHS.  I asked then about Board representation and was told that the Trust needed to show that it represented fans' views to a greater extent than it currently does.  Who told the Trust that, what constitutes sufficient representation, and how do you measure it?

Their statement is vacuous PR spin and the Trust is just a fig leaf and a convenient stooge for the Board.  You either have to doubt the Weirs' true intentions in giving the fans a greater say in the running of the club, or it has been hijacked by someone.

Stick to selling bricks guys.

 

I think the statement is quite revealng screeds of information about everything and anything - saying how wonderful everything is 

Nothing to see here / move along please 

 

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5 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said:

A lot of the stuff in this from the manager is ripe for mockery (have we really co-opted the guy that does Jagzone into doing player performance stuff?), but I don’t actually think that’s the important stuff here. 

The bit that really concerns me is supporter representation on the board, and I actually find that section quite concerning. 

I don’t care that it’s not common at Scottish clubs for supporters to be represented on the board. Are supporters the largest shareholders at other clubs? And even regardless of that, wasn’t the Trust formed to show that we were doing things differently?

The line about the board and fans being closer than they’ve ever been is either not intended to read how it does or it’s, well, from another planet. Again that isn’t a criticism of trustees as I’m sure they’re just relaying the comments of the board. But it can’t be deemed to be correct, surely?

The bit about the club board and the Trust meeting after board meetings entirely misses the point. If supporters are the largest shareholders, and if we are serious about supporter engagement and participation, then it is simply not enough to have decisions relayed to you. We (the supporters and the club’s largest shareholders) have to be at the table helping to inform and make those decisions. I find it baffling that this point has either not been made forcefully enough or not been listened to by the board. 

What part of the statement didnt you understand - please stop asking awkward questions and discuss the possibility of another Striker

Your a Fan - now pay your money and leave the Running of the Club to the Board 

Fans Rep - next you will be suggesting an Elected Board like Barcelona and Real Madrid - and that would be a disaster !! 

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In common with most other teams in Scotland.......

most other clubs don’t have greater than 25% of the ownership in the hands of the fans  

But also look what Falkirk in particular are doing right now.  And others  

And finally when have partick thistke ever been bound by convention? 

If you don’t want it to happen because fans add no value, fine, it’s an opinion. If you don’t want it beacauue you are a power crazed maniac, fine, I get that. If you don’t want it because no one else is doing it (when they are actually and you are failing to recognise our unique set of circumstances) it’s a pretty pitiful excuse. 

We will never know Colin weirs true intention. However I would be surprised if it was what we now have. 

Edited by jaf
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11 hours ago, Garscube Road End said:

Experienced striker? It will be Sammon.

Sammon’s been mentioned a few times recently, but he seems to be involved in recent Motherwell matches, admittedly from the bench, which makes me me wonder why he would join us

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9 hours ago, jaf said:

In common with most other teams in Scotland.......

most other clubs don’t have greater than 25% of the ownership in the hands of the fans  

But also look what Falkirk in particular are doing right now.  And others  

And finally when have partick thistke ever been bound by convention? 

If you don’t want it to happen because fans add no value, fine, it’s an opinion. If you don’t want it beacauue you are a power crazed maniac, fine, I get that. If you don’t want it because no one else is doing it (when they are actually and you are failing to recognise our unique set of circumstances) it’s a pretty pitiful excuse. 

We will never know Colin weirs true intention. However I would be surprised if it was what we now have. 

Absolutely this ^

Also, I appreciate that it’s up to them how they wish to communicate and they might prefer one to one conversations at the Trust’s stall or via email, but I do think it would be helpful if the Trustees engaged in a more structured way with fans concerns on here, rather than 1 John Lambie having to respond in an ad hoc (although helpful and informative) way.

These sort of issues need discussed in public  and for all its faults this forum is the main fans forum. Would be good to see some of the issues raised by the update receive a response on here. That doesn’t mean trustees need to be on here constantly (especially given they are devoting their free time to this) or that they should be sniped at for not answering substantive points immediately, but I do think that the legitimate concerns people have should be aired, discussed and responded to on here in some way.

At the very least that would help with building the credibility that - it would appear - is seemingly needed before the Trust is represented on the board. 

Edited by KemoAvdiu

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Just now, jaggy said:

Sammon’s been mentioned a few times recently, but he seems to be involved in recent Motherwell matches, admittedly from the bench, which makes me me wonder why he would join us

To get a regular start. And at our level he'd probably be ok.

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13 hours ago, KemoAvdiu said:

A lot of the stuff in this from the manager is ripe for mockery (have we really co-opted the guy that does Jagzone into doing player performance stuff?), but I don’t actually think that’s the important stuff here. 

The bit that really concerns me is supporter representation on the board, and I actually find that section quite concerning. 

I don’t care that it’s not common at Scottish clubs for supporters to be represented on the board. Are supporters the largest shareholders at other clubs? And even regardless of that, wasn’t the Trust formed to show that we were doing things differently?

The line about the board and fans being closer than they’ve ever been is either not intended to read how it does or it’s, well, from another planet. Again that isn’t a criticism of trustees as I’m sure they’re just relaying the comments of the board. But it can’t be deemed to be correct, surely?

The bit about the club board and the Trust meeting after board meetings entirely misses the point. If supporters are the largest shareholders, and if we are serious about supporter engagement and participation, then it is simply not enough to have decisions relayed to you. We (the supporters and the club’s largest shareholders) have to be at the table helping to inform and make those decisions. I find it baffling that this point has either not been made forcefully enough or not been listened to by the board. 

This completely covers my thoughts on "board engagement". Poor poor PR by the board, what are they scared of and why the determined obstruction. Grateful to whoever completed the article but Most of the article is smokescreen. I'd rather the current board were honest and said why there's no support for a place for the trust. 

Can't agree more kemo with your opinion on feedback to the trust AFTER the board meetings. This is draconion. I don't care what goes on at other clubs. I care about my/our club. We are proud of Thistle being an innovative club, of being different. It's why we support the jags..

I have no agenda, no axe to grind against the board, i've never held a board position, i'm just an ordinary fan.....this crowd are directly from the 70's & 80's. Dictat from above.

Lastly, again, i hope GC brings us success but come on tae.......reports on players etc am i alone in thinking he is over complicating the game? We are sh1te just now, not as smelly as we were a few weeks ago but sh1te is still sh1te.

Keep the ball in the oppositions half, shoot on sight. Work hard to keep the ball, work harder to get it back when you lose it and when the opposition get into your final third.......get it tae fook!! Simples. By all means get into the complexities of the game when you master the simple stuf ffs. The manager section in this report has given me zero comfort that our results are going to improve.

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13 hours ago, eljaggo said:

I asked Pauline Graham the Trust's chair to ask the Board what the impediments were to the Trust getting a seat on the Board.

Today's statement by the Trust completely fails to answer that question.  Was the Board asked that question Andrew (as Pauline promised)?  If so what did they say?

According to Andrew Byron, I apparently was the only fan to talk to the Trust at their stand in the JHS.  I asked then about Board representation and was told that the Trust needed to show that it represented fans' views to a greater extent than it currently does.  Who told the Trust that, what constitutes sufficient representation, and how do you measure it?

Their statement is vacuous PR spin and the Trust is just a fig leaf and a convenient stooge for the Board.  You either have to doubt the Weirs' true intentions in giving the fans a greater say in the running of the club, or it has been hijacked by someone.

Stick to selling bricks guys.

 

Great post. Is it any wonder you were the only person to speak to them at their pop up, don't they know there's another stand with home fans in it. I have zero confidence in this board and like you am wondering what their agenda really is & fail to see the point in the trust under present circumstances.

Fair play to those involved puting their unpaid time and effort into it but it does seem rather pointless.

As a bye thought, and perhaps i just missed it, no mention of what, as a community club we are doing in the community/for the community. I know there's a lot going on with food bank support and east park. Just a thought

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