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Ptfc Trust Update


elevenone
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Question to 1 John Lambie or anyone else with info. How many Jags fans regularly attend the Trust meetings?

I know I've been to two, perhaps the very first in the Aitken Suite and the recent one in the AR Lounge. The latter one the Trust was basically the warm up act for the Caldwell Show, so the attendance was obviously inflated. I think I heard somewhere that meat and gravy meetings are held prior to a home game on a Saturday lunchtime, so it's these meetings I ask about.

I did read somewhere on here that only one Jags fan approached the pop up stand in the JHS concourse. Suppose you can guess why I ask this question.

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At yesterday's game, I again asked Andrew Byron and Pauline Graham of the Trust what the Board had said were the reasons for no fans' Trust seat on the Board.  I was told that the Trust had answered that in their statement earlier in the week (see above).  When I pointed out that this did not answer the question, I was told by Andrew Byron that it did.  I queried if they had actually asked the Board the question, and  Byron simply repeated, with a half smile, that the statement was the only answer we were going to get.

We are being fobbed off, and if fans' are serious in seeking a seat on the Board, then more concerted action is needed.  That has to involve the Fans Trust as well as the Supporters Trust, which interestingly will soon have 7 fan elected trustees to 3 club appointed trustees. 

Time for the Fans Trust to come from behind the curtain and begin to co-operate to ensure that fans, who saved this Club in 1999 and who own over 25% of the shares, get due influence in running the Club.

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2 hours ago, eljaggo said:

At yesterday's game, I again asked Andrew Byron and Pauline Graham of the Trust what the Board had said were the reasons for no fans' Trust seat on the Board.  I was told that the Trust had answered that in their statement earlier in the week (see above).  When I pointed out that this did not answer the question, I was told by Andrew Byron that it did.  I queried if they had actually asked the Board the question, and  Byron simply repeated, with a half smile, that the statement was the only answer we were going to get.

We are being fobbed off, and if fans' are serious in seeking a seat on the Board, then more concerted action is needed.  That has to involve the Fans Trust as well as the Supporters Trust, which interestingly will soon have 7 fan elected trustees to 3 club appointed trustees. 

Time for the Fans Trust to come from behind the curtain and begin to co-operate to ensure that fans, who saved this Club in 1999 and who own over 25% of the shares, get due influence in running the Club.

This is hugely worrying if true and it would be really good to actually get some clarification on here - the main Thistle supporters’ forum - from one of the trustees, who we know read and post on the forum.

This really isn’t good enough and that sort of attitude will just put off anyone who is in anyway inclined to get involved. Maybe that’s the point? 

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The problem is two fold

 

1- we have two "supporters" trusts out there- there isn't a joint voice on what fans want or would like to see. If we are serious in taking fan engagement forward this needs to be sorted out before we even think about speak to the board.

 

2- What do the fans want- experience tells me very few fans engage with the Trust (in any guise) so leading to a few people being able to dominate the agenda. Again we need to see better numbers engaging with the organisation. More people means more diverse opinions means better outcomes (hopefully ) for the club and fans.

 

Also do we want the trust to be a "pressure" group holding the board to account or a mechanism to raise funds for the club and not have any impact on day to day decisions? 

 

 

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Just now, Mad Mull Jag said:

The problem is two fold

 

1- we have two "supporters" trusts out there- there isn't a joint voice on what fans want or would like to see. If we are serious in taking fan engagement forward this needs to be sorted out before we even think about speak to the board.

 

2- What do the fans want- experience tells me very few fans engage with the Trust (in any guise) so leading to a few people being able to dominate the agenda. Again we need to see better numbers engaging with the organisation. More people means more diverse opinions means better outcomes (hopefully ) for the club and fans.

 

Also do we want the trust to be a "pressure" group holding the board to account or a mechanism to raise funds for the club and not have any impact on day to day decisions? 

 

 

Good points. From my understanding the new Trust is intended to have a say in the decisions made by the club. I’m still unclear on what decisions the Trust has impacted so far (keen to hear that from the Trustees if they’re reading?), and also unclear as to whether the Trust wants to really impact those decisions (see El Jaggo’s description of his engagement with the Trustees on this issue). 

More fans will become engaged and get involved if they see the Trust is meaningful and powerful. People will turn off if they feel the Trust is meaningless and powerless. The credibility needs to be secured before people are going to become engaged, and not vice versa. 

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27 minutes ago, Mad Mull Jag said:

The problem is two fold

 

1- we have two "supporters" trusts out there- there isn't a joint voice on what fans want or would like to see. If we are serious in taking fan engagement forward this needs to be sorted out before we even think about speak to the board.

 

2- What do the fans want- experience tells me very few fans engage with the Trust (in any guise) so leading to a few people being able to dominate the agenda. Again we need to see better numbers engaging with the organisation. More people means more diverse opinions means better outcomes (hopefully ) for the club and fans.

 

Also do we want the trust to be a "pressure" group holding the board to account or a mechanism to raise funds for the club and not have any impact on day to day decisions? 

 

 

this is so true.

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52 minutes ago, Mad Mull Jag said:

Also do we want the trust to be a "pressure" group holding the board to account or a mechanism to raise funds for the club and not have any impact on day to day decisions? 

Long held view that the two don't (shouldn't) be mixed. Someone who is willing to give up considerable time and energy to fund raising and organising social events as an instrument to raise cash, will often not be interested in the least about fan representation etc etc. Vice versa it stands to reason that someone championing Board accountability/fan communication, Club politics etc may neither have time or inclination to get involved in fund raisers. I reckon then we require two separate organisations. Holding and managing shares is no pre-requisite to raising funds or organising social events

Kemo suggests that the Trust has to become more meaningful to engage the fanbase. Not doubting that's the case but the cynic in me says that us Jags fans will still prefer pissing into rather than pissing out the tent. No real way of backing this up but I get the impression most successful fan engaged trusts or fan based organisations were born out of necessity when the club in question was severely struggling financially. 

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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11 minutes ago, eljaggo said:

What a depressing post.  You seem to suggest that trusts and their trustees/supporters are incapable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.

I assume it's my post you find depressing, eljaggo. I'm not meaning to suggest that about trustees/supporters. Of course you can be both a party to fund raising and want to take an active part in fan representation. It's simply in my mind those two aspects of fan involvement are completely separate issues.

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On 1/27/2019 at 4:02 AM, KemoAvdiu said:

This is hugely worrying if true and it would be really good to actually get some clarification on here - the main Thistle supporters’ forum - from one of the trustees, who we know read and post on the forum.

This really isn’t good enough and that sort of attitude will just put off anyone who is in anyway inclined to get involved. Maybe that’s the point? 

For the avoidance of doubt - the Board are answerable to the shareholders ( given that between them they own a minuscule amount of shares ) if the Supporters with 25% of the shares wish a place on the Board - then they get it - if you add the small shareholdings from Fans that number is over 30% 

Thats it - not for discussion - so the Trust (s) can advise how there going to deliver this - if the Board say No -  then they have enough shares to demand an EGM & remove the Board 

 

    

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On 1/27/2019 at 1:31 AM, eljaggo said:

At yesterday's game, I again asked Andrew Byron and Pauline Graham of the Trust what the Board had said were the reasons for no fans' Trust seat on the Board.  I was told that the Trust had answered that in their statement earlier in the week (see above).  When I pointed out that this did not answer the question, I was told by Andrew Byron that it did.  I queried if they had actually asked the Board the question, and  Byron simply repeated, with a half smile, that the statement was the only answer we were going to get.

We are being fobbed off, and if fans' are serious in seeking a seat on the Board, then more concerted action is needed.  That has to involve the Fans Trust as well as the Supporters Trust, which interestingly will soon have 7 fan elected trustees to 3 club appointed trustees. 

Time for the Fans Trust to come from behind the curtain and begin to co-operate to ensure that fans, who saved this Club in 1999 and who own over 25% of the shares, get due influence in running the Club.

Not an acceptable response on any level 

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There seem to be two different views on how fans' representation should function: (1) as a full participant in the board or (2) as an independent voice offering criticism.

Is there perhaps room for both an independent Jags Trust staying at arms' length from the club, and the PT Trust apparently influencing the club, but on the board's terms?

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8 hours ago, Fearchar said:

There seem to be two different views on how fans' representation should function: (1) as a full participant in the board or (2) as an independent voice offering criticism.

Is there perhaps room for both an independent Jags Trust staying at arms' length from the club, and the PT Trust apparently influencing the club, but on the board's terms?

Its a fair point - in my opinion it should be one organisation  - but the format it takes is the decision of the Fans - not the Club Board - the shares belong to them - not the Club Board 

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, Norgethistle said:

I’ve heard today that Kirkintilloch will not be happening. Has the trust heard anything or is the original statement of June still being pedaled by the club?

You have got us hooked. You need to provide more detail instead of social media "scoops".

On the other hand I heard it is going ahead.

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8 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

I’ve heard today that Kirkintilloch will not be happening. Has the trust heard anything or is the original statement of June still being pedaled by the club?

I drove past the Site last week Nothing has changed in Months and as predicted in January -Kirkie Move looking more and more like a Dead Duck 

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Perhaps the Trust will be present at the match as usual on Friday (Jackie Husband stand concourse), and be able to give some answers.  They don't seem to be responding to my emails on other topics, but I have emailed Pauling Graham this morning to ask if the Trust will be at their usual stand on Friday.  Will keep you all posted .

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