Caldwell’s Massive 7 Days

[sandy]

You guys just don’t see it! Look at the league table - time to wake up and smell the coffee.

I’ve followed Thistle through thick & thin, I’m usually in the ‘happy clapper’ camp. But this season has been a shocker and Caldwell hasn’t convinced quite a number of us that he’s the right manager to take us forward. That’s my opinion, I’m allowed that. 

Oh and btw, I get plenty of cuddles. But thanks for your concern. 

[London Exile]

1 hour ago, sandy said:

You guys just don’t see it! Look at the league table - time to wake up and smell the coffee.

I’ve followed Thistle through thick & thin, I’m usually in the ‘happy clapper’ camp. But this season has been a shocker and Caldwell hasn’t convinced quite a number of us that he’s the right manager to take us forward. That’s my opinion, I’m allowed that. 

Oh and btw, I get plenty of cuddles. But thanks for your concern. 

I'm not criticising your opinion Sandy, just worried about your mental health mate. Glad your getting enough cuddles. The table looks a damn sight more hopeful than it did in December. We can agree on that at least.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

It is of course perfectly feasible to believe that Caldwell did a worse job than Archie would've done up to the transfer window AND believe Caldwell's changes to playing staff was better than Archie would've done had he been around to chop and change. There's nobody denying that our squad by the 31st of January was stronger than our squad at the 31st of August.

I'd suggest that bringing in experience thru the likes of Anderson, Saunders, Cardle and McDonald makes the team easier to manage. Two of them can undoubtedly be called leaders on the pitch and such strong characters was definitely something we desperately lacked.

I remain just now far from convinced that Caldwell is the right appointment and continue to see plenty of specifics that don't question that doubt. On the other hand I give him credit for identifying the weaknesses in the squad he inherited and largely correcting those weaknesses. I am tho' only crediting Caldwell so far with damage limitation. It should be said some of the damage he caused himself prior to January.  Whether I want him to stay past this season is something I'll put off till next month and don't really see the point of discussing such matters just now.

[ARu-Strathbungo]

6 hours ago, sandy said:

You guys just don’t see it! Look at the league table - time to wake up and smell the coffee.

I’ve followed Thistle through thick & thin, I’m usually in the ‘happy clapper’ camp. But this season has been a shocker and Caldwell hasn’t convinced quite a number of us that he’s the right manager to take us forward. That’s my opinion, I’m allowed that. 

Oh and btw, I get plenty of cuddles. But thanks for your concern. 

Sandy, I think the jist of the recent posts on this subject is your either an optimist or a pessimist, and at the moment your shading towards pessimism. The game on Saturday against Dunfermline, I would hope, will be the beginning of how PTFC will approach the remaining games. If for example we can win all our home games and draw our away games, we stay up …. will the season be classed as a success? probably not, more of a relief than a celebration. Will it be a success in terms of GC's management skills?, probably not, however way you spin it we have never looked remotely like a top four team this season and that was the remit GC was asked to deliver. Does he get fired? no that I think would be self defeating. The two home games against ICT and RC [second half] were as bad as I have seen Thistle play in a long time, but I have to hope those were exceptions, and simply the wrong tactics were used against smarter, well drilled teams who had not just a plan A, but also a plan B and C. Overall the team has played better since Xmas than before, and the reports we have heard on this forum, from others that are closer to the club than perhaps you or I, indicate the spirit within the dressing room is good and GC and his management team are respected by the players.   

I think after Saturdays game we might be in a better league position, my feeling is the teams in real trouble of finishing in 9th place in this league are QoS or Morton, but I don't know if that is simply wishful thinking on my part.

Edited April 3, 2019 by ARu-Strathbungo

[laukat]

32 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

It is of course perfectly feasible to believe that Caldwell did a worse job than Archie would've done up to the transfer window AND believe Caldwell's changes to playing staff was better than Archie would've done had he been around to chop and change. There's nobody denying that our squad by the 31st of January was stronger than our squad at the 31st of August.

I'd suggest that bringing in experience thru the likes of Anderson, Saunders, Cardle and McDonald makes the team easier to manage. Two of them can undoubtedly be called leaders on the pitch and such strong characters was definitely something we desperately lacked.

I remain just now far from convinced that Caldwell is the right appointment and continue to see plenty of specifics that don't question that doubt. On the other hand I give him credit for identifying the weaknesses in the squad he inherited and largely correcting those weaknesses. I am tho' only crediting Caldwell so far with damage limitation. It should be said some of the damage he caused himself prior to January.  Whether I want him to stay past this season is something I'll put off till next month and don't really see the point of discussing such matters just now.

The bit in bold is almost exactly my thoughts. There can be a tendancy for opinion to fluctuate based on a particular performance or result. The moment of judgement is now the end of the season. If we get relegated then there is really no way Caldwell can continue. If we stay up then it will be judgement call in the close season when there is more time to assess the way forward. There is little value in us either calling for Caldwell's head or saying he should be given next season until our league status is decided as its too late to make any changes to influence the outcome of the remaining games.

[Lenziejag]

I think I am kind of with Sandy on this. I would have preferred Falkirk and Morton to have lost last night. We have only 6 games to go and I would be happier if we stayed out of the relegation/playoff places.

[Dick Dastardly]

QotS and Falkirk draw was by far the best result for us. It means only 2 points awarded and shared between the sides instead of 3. The red card was a bonus. Yes the Morton equaliser didn’t do us any favours.

[Lenziejag]

10 minutes ago, Dick Dastardly said:

QotS and Falkirk draw was by far the best result for us. It means only 2 points awarded and shared between the sides instead of 3. The red card was a bonus. Yes the Morton equaliser didn’t do us any favours.

It is all about opinions. We have to at least match Falkirk’s results and get something from our extra game to avoid ending below them

[allyo]

13 hours ago, sandy said:

Allyo, you know I respect your views. But there is one little detail you are missing; we are a place BELOW where Archie left us. 

How can that be progress? And from a manager who was hired to get us promotion? 

I can't argue with you on league position. That's just fact.

Regarding what the Board said he was hired for; he can't do anything about that. I tend to ignore that aspect. That's what is often currently referred to as "unicorns". Unrealistic promises from those who are not responsible for delivering. He inherited a demoralised and poorly balanced squad in which our only decent defensive midfilder and central defender were both injured for the long term, and our only right-back had completely lost it. He was up against it.

I wouldn't (and never did) defend his record pre-Christmas. Despite the problems he inherited I was (and still am) still firmly of the view that he should have been able to do better. I therefore would have been happy to see him go at Christmas, in fact I actively wanted it.

However, you cannot reasonably deny that there has been improvement since then. And I just think it is unreasonable not to acknowledge this, and therefore need to accept that, if current form continues, we will avoid relegation and this will be an achievement. Maybe not from where he started, but from where he got us. And on the whole, while you may not wish to celebrate survival (it is the absolute minimum that should be expected), it would not be grounds for dismissal.

I am not convinced by him either. I still get confused by constantly changing team selections, and I still worry that everything could go wrong in the coming weeks. But he's definitely the manager until the end of the season; we need to accept that and then consider the situation when the season is over.

 

 

[Garscube Road End]

1 hour ago, allyo said:

I can't argue with you on league position. That's just fact.

Regarding what the Board said he was hired for; he can't do anything about that. I tend to ignore that aspect. That's what is often currently referred to as "unicorns". Unrealistic promises from those who are not responsible for delivering. He inherited a demoralised and poorly balanced squad in which our only decent defensive midfilder and central defender were both injured for the long term, and our only right-back had completely lost it. He was up against it.

I wouldn't (and never did) defend his record pre-Christmas. Despite the problems he inherited I was (and still am) still firmly of the view that he should have been able to do better. I therefore would have been happy to see him go at Christmas, in fact I actively wanted it.

However, you cannot reasonably deny that there has been improvement since then. And I just think it is unreasonable not to acknowledge this, and therefore need to accept that, if current form continues, we will avoid relegation and this will be an achievement. Maybe not from where he started, but from where he got us. And on the whole, while you may not wish to celebrate survival (it is the absolute minimum that should be expected), it would not be grounds for dismissal.

I am not convinced by him either. I still get confused by constantly changing team selections, and I still worry that everything could go wrong in the coming weeks. But he's definitely the manager until the end of the season; we need to accept that and then consider the situation when the season is over.

 

 

I agree that his team selections, tactics and comments are baffling. He seemed to be getting it all right until the second half crumble v. Ross county, the capitulation at Dunfermline and the horrible display v. Caley leaves me nervous that we will slide into the play offs at least. 

[Auld Jag]

Not sure what the best set of results last night would be. But the only result we can influence is our own game. We must keep up the form of this year which we have managed to average 1.64 points per game. Whereas Caldwells first 10 games averaged 1/2 point per game. How our next 6 games and where we finish in the league will make up my mind if Caldwell should still be our manager next season or not.

[allyo]

1 hour ago, Auld Jag said:

Not sure what the best set of results last night would be. But the only result we can influence is our own game. We must keep up the form of this year which we have managed to average 1.64 points per game. Whereas Caldwells first 10 games averaged 1/2 point per game. How our next 6 games and where we finish in the league will make up my mind if Caldwell should still be our manager next season or not.

To my mind its very simple. When two of your direct rivals go up against each other (Falkirk and QoS) you want a draw. That way there are two points awarded rather than three. In the long run you can't tell whether it will work in your favour or not, but statistically it's the best option.

Obviously an Ayr win would have suited us, but a draw in that game wasn't a disaster, and keeps Morton within range.

[Third Lanark]

8 hours ago, sandy said:

You guys just don’t see it! Look at the league table - time to wake up and smell the coffee.

I’ve followed Thistle through thick & thin, I’m usually in the ‘happy clapper’ camp. But this season has been a shocker and Caldwell hasn’t convinced quite a number of us that he’s the right manager to take us forward. That’s my opinion, I’m allowed that. 

Oh and btw, I get plenty of cuddles. But thanks for your concern. 

I would argue that last season was a shocker as well - players looked unfit, uninterested etc etc and there unfortunately seems to have been a downward spiral at many levels at the club for some reason since we made top 6.   The contrast between us and Livingston in that time is absolutely astonishing and actually quite worrying 

[partickthedog]

Caldwell's massive 7 days were certainly MASSIVE. They began 24 days ago and they are still going.

[Auld Jag]

1 minute ago, partickthedog said:

Caldwell's massive 7 days were certainly MASSIVE. They began 24 days ago and they are still going.

They will keep going until we are relegated or we stay up. After that he will have more massive days while his future is decided.

[Auld Jag]

1 hour ago, Third Lanark said:

I would argue that last season was a shocker as well - players looked unfit, uninterested etc etc and there unfortunately seems to have been a downward spiral at many levels at the club for some reason since we made top 6.   The contrast between us and Livingston in that time is absolutely astonishing and actually quite worrying 

Before we played Kilmarnock in October 2017 we were above them in the league and they had just sacked their manager. The rest as they say is history. The difference between us and them is even more worrying and alarming.

[Auld Jag]

2 hours ago, allyo said:

To my mind its very simple. When two of your direct rivals go up against each other (Falkirk and QoS) you want a draw. That way there are two points awarded rather than three. In the long run you can't tell whether it will work in your favour or not, but statistically it's the best option.

Obviously an Ayr win would have suited us, but a draw in that game wasn't a disaster, and keeps Morton within range.

Don't disagree with your logic allyo. I didn't want Falkirk winning, I know QOS are within reach as well. I feel that most Thistle fans would accept an 8th place finish this season. This weekend Alloa are at Falkirk and Morton at QOS. We really need a victory on Saturday.

[sandy]

9 hours ago, London Exile said:

I'm not criticising your opinion Sandy, just worried about your mental health mate. Glad your getting enough cuddles. The table looks a damn sight more hopeful than it did in December. We can agree on that at least.

Bloody hell, you are one scary lad. 

[allyo]

1 hour ago, Auld Jag said:

Don't disagree with your logic allyo. I didn't want Falkirk winning, I know QOS are within reach as well. I feel that most Thistle fans would accept an 8th place finish this season. This weekend Alloa are at Falkirk and Morton at QOS. We really need a victory on Saturday.

IF we can get a win on Saturday I won't care what happens elsewhere!

[sandy]

5 hours ago, Auld Jag said:

Not sure what the best set of results last night would be. But the only result we can influence is our own game. We must keep up the form of this year which we have managed to average 1.64 points per game. Whereas Caldwells first 10 games averaged 1/2 point per game. How our next 6 games and where we finish in the league will make up my mind if Caldwell should still be our manager next season or not.

Measured AJ

[sandy]

1 hour ago, Auld Jag said:

Before we played Kilmarnock in October 2017 we were above them in the league and they had just sacked their manager. The rest as they say is history. The difference between us and them is even more worrying and alarming.

This. Clarke got them hooring up the table, Caldwell has dropped us one place.

[Garscube Road End]

40 minutes ago, sandy said:

This. Clarke got them hooring up the table, Caldwell has dropped us one place.

I think the huge difference here is that the board at Kilmarnock had a plan and executed it. Our bunch haven't got a clue what to do and it is showing.

[allyo]

Okay here's a stat...

Gary Caldwelltook charge of a demoralised and disjointed Thistle team in mid October. Within two weeks he'd  lost his first three games. Terrible start, obviously.

In the five months since then we have won as many games as we have lost. 8 wins, 6 draws, 8 defeats.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

It is of course perfectly feasible to believe that Caldwell did a worse job than Archie would've done up to the transfer window AND believe Caldwell's changes to playing staff was better than Archie would've done had he been around to chop and change. There's nobody denying that our squad by the 31st of January was stronger than our squad at the 31st of August.

I'd suggest that bringing in experience thru the likes of Anderson, Saunders, Cardle and McDonald makes the team easier to manage. Two of them can undoubtedly be called leaders on the pitch and such strong characters was definitely something we desperately lacked.

I remain just now far from convinced that Caldwell is the right appointment and continue to see plenty of specifics that don't question that doubt. On the other hand I give him credit for identifying the weaknesses in the squad he inherited and largely correcting those weaknesses. I am tho' only crediting Caldwell so far with damage limitation. It should be said some of the damage he caused himself prior to January.  Whether I want him to stay past this season is something I'll put off till next month and don't really see the point of discussing such matters just now.

Quality posting again LiB, I ran out of likes. 

 

Just one point while I'm at it, just cos Caldwell might be perceived to have improved on Archie doesn't make him a success. Far from it. I too am reserving my right to call for him to go, even if this is improvement.

[douglas clark]

32 minutes ago, Garscube Road End said:

I think the huge difference here is that the board at Kilmarnock had a plan and executed it. Our bunch haven't got a clue what to do and it is showing.

Can I just ask, apart from getting a very good manager, what did their board do that our's didn't? Genuine question.