Caldwell’s Massive 7 Days

[Norgethistle]

10 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

Not sure I agree with this ww.

If the man at the top had lost confidence then AA would have been binned close season.

We can't judge about funding cos we don't know figures. AA might have been given the same funding as Caldwell got at Christmas, we might never know.

AA had an horrendous signing history and possibly just wasted what he had. Then again had the club stuck with him and released funds to AA at Christmas, he might have got his signings right, we'll never know.

Fact is, AA got sacked cos his start to the season was as p1sh poor as his end to the previous season, not cos anyone lost confidence, he became rubbish.

Not entirely true, and if so he’d have been punted earlier.

I know of 3 players in the summer that were approached, available and affordable that wouldn’t come near the club and the manager.

He was seen as failing, he’d lost the dressing room since the Motherwell game and had been mouthed off by a few of our ex-players after how they were released or not renewed.

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, sandy said:

Interesting analysis. I think Archie & Shaggy we’re worn out from the effort of keeping us in the top flight. Nobody within the Club seemed to recognise that or be able to help. So the sacking felt painful. Still does. 

The fact that I haven’t warmed to GC has nothing to do with what happened to Archie. I just don’t think he has understood Thistle (witness release of Erskine) nor has the tactical nous  or decision-making ability  (witness 18 month contract to Harkins) to put in a decent promotion challenge. 

We need an overhaul this summer, starting with a new manager and maybe some Board changes too.

Unfortunately, so far, I agree with your assessment of Caldwell. The Erskine situation aside, his formations most recently v Falkirk and at home to ICT were strange to state the obvious. His inability to arrest the slide in the 2nd half v RC was embarrassing. I could go on but what's the point. I fear we are stuck with him and if we stay up he'll still be manager next season. The biggest issue will be come October ish and it's not working where do we go then. I fear next season being a repeat of this season if he is still here at the close season. That said, we'll all keep supporting and hoping.

As a side issue, I don't  believe a manager has to understand a club to be successful. What's there to understand sandy. We are first and foremost just a football club to people in the industry. Whether it's partick thistle or Inverness thistle QoS, st johnstone, Dundee, whatever, it's still just a football team. A squad of players, understanding the best formation to suit the players you have been given/inherited or bought, and beating as many other teams as you can. It's only us fans who "understand" our club and realise there's more to our club than managers coaches and players. To "football people" it's just a club that is employing them. Mores the pity

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Not entirely true, and if so he’d have been punted earlier.

I know of 3 players in the summer that were approached, available and affordable that wouldn’t come near the club and the manager.

He was seen as failing, he’d lost the dressing room since the Motherwell game and had been mouthed off by a few of our ex-players after how they were released or not renewed.

 

It's the same in any industry/employment. Old employees bad mouth the boss.

What part of my post isn't entirely true. Basically I didnt agree the man at the top had lost confidence. Most of the rest of it your post suggests you agree? I'd suggested there was an issue between the players and AA which is somewhat corroborated by your 3 player friends. And I'd speculated AA didn't get support from above to sort out the problem players. Like sandy, I still feel for AA. I'd love to know why the players lost respect for him, was he really a cokc who'd pushed his luck too far, were the players short changed/rewarded for their efforts getting to the top 6, or were the problem players a shower of chancers and sand dancers? Oh to be a fly on the wall

[Norgethistle]

1 minute ago, Thistleberight said:

It's the same in any industry/employment. Old employees bad mouth the boss.

What part of my post isn't entirely true. Basically I didnt agree the man at the top had lost confidence. Most of the rest of it your post suggests you agree? I'd suggested there was an issue between the players and AA which is somewhat corroborated by your 3 player friends. And I'd speculated AA didn't get support from above to sort out the problem players. Like sandy, I still feel for AA. I'd love to know why the players lost respect for him, was he really a cokc who'd pushed his luck too far, were the players short changed/rewarded for their efforts getting to the top 6, or were the problem players a shower of chancers and sand dancers? Oh to be a fly on the wall

I’d actually meant to quote the post you’d quoted

I actually agree with your post.

From what I heard he became entrenched, wouldn’t take advice or criticism within the dressing room which ultimately saw his demise,  I’ve seen the same in other managers in other industries, and again as you say in all industries ex employees bad mouth the boss, difference being these ex employees don’t all have the same agents  with possible new employees or play golf  with them

[laukat]

35 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Not entirely true, and if so he’d have been punted earlier.

I know of 3 players in the summer that were approached, available and affordable that wouldn’t come near the club and the manager.

He was seen as failing, he’d lost the dressing room since the Motherwell game and had been mouthed off by a few of our ex-players after how they were released or not renewed.

Do you know why they say he lost the dressing room after the Motherwell game? I'm presuming it was the 1-0 loss at home to them in May you're referring to?

To me it looked like the problems were there from about the Hamilton game in February but certainly by the Ross County game in early April. It looked from the outside that dropping Dumbaya after 2 games was the start of the team questioning his choices

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

I’d actually meant to quote the post you’d quoted

I actually agree with your post.

From what I heard he became entrenched, wouldn’t take advice or criticism within the dressing room which ultimately saw his demise,  I’ve seen the same in other managers in other industries, and again as you say in all industries ex employees bad mouth the boss, difference being these ex employees don’t all have the same agents  with possible new employees or play golf  with them

That's very sad to hear. Not that I personally know AA to judge, but the person he came accross as in the media wasn't someone who would be like you describe. I guess the pressure would have made him become unapproachable,  unable to accept advice or criticism, no matter how constructive it might have been. Very sad to read it was like that for him as he always came over as a very nice person. I'm sure the experience would've made him stronger. Pity it ended that way, and a pity for us that we still are having to suffer the fall out from it all. Thanks for the insight norge, much appreciated

[sandy]

12 hours ago, Thistleberight said:

Unfortunately, so far, I agree with your assessment of Caldwell. The Erskine situation aside, his formations most recently v Falkirk and at home to ICT were strange to state the obvious. His inability to arrest the slide in the 2nd half v RC was embarrassing. I could go on but what's the point. I fear we are stuck with him and if we stay up he'll still be manager next season. The biggest issue will be come October ish and it's not working where do we go then. I fear next season being a repeat of this season if he is still here at the close season. That said, we'll all keep supporting and hoping.

As a side issue, I don't  believe a manager has to understand a club to be successful. What's there to understand sandy. We are first and foremost just a football club to people in the industry. Whether it's partick thistle or Inverness thistle QoS, st johnstone, Dundee, whatever, it's still just a football team. A squad of players, understanding the best formation to suit the players you have been given/inherited or bought, and beating as many other teams as you can. It's only us fans who "understand" our club and realise there's more to our club than managers coaches and players. To "football people" it's just a club that is employing them. Mores the pity

Cheers TB.

Some strong, established Clubs have a culture; the ‘Thistle Way’ if you like. But maybe the changes to the Board and financial challenges have changed that for us in the last 3-5 years? 

PropCo, the Black Cats, the training ground. These things seem to have changed us.

[sandy]

16 hours ago, admin said:

Nor should it be. Ever. Irrespective of the player involved or the manager involved. 

A manager should only base his decision re a player's future on what he considers he brings to the team. Not on what any given player feels about the club. That's an example of weak management. 

You can argue that from a footballing point of view allowing Chris Erskine, probably my favourite player of the last 20 years or so, to go was the wrong call. But to suggest Erskine's feelings for Thistle should have influenced Caldwell's thinking is just wrong. 

Allowing Erskine to leave was a big call. In many respects, given his popularity within the Thistle support, a brave one. Whether it was the right one is open to debate and no matter how the season finishes will be difficult to provide a definitive answer to. 

Hey Admin good to see you joining in! Usually you just post to rap my knuckles

[Guest]

2 hours ago, sandy said:

Cheers TB.

Some strong, established Clubs have a culture; the ‘Thistle Way’ if you like. But maybe the changes to the Board and financial challenges have changed that for us in the last 3-5 years? 

PropCo, the Black Cats, the training ground. These things seem to have changed us.

They seem to have sandy. I too feel a change in the spirit/atmosphere of the club. It doesn't feel as, I dunno, homely. If that makes sense. That's not necessarily down to Caldwell probably more to do with how the club is being run. I can't quite put my finger on it, there's a feeling if disconnection between fand and the club. If that makes any sense at all.

[Lenziejag]

15 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Not entirely true, and if so he’d have been punted earlier.

I know of 3 players in the summer that were approached, available and affordable that wouldn’t come near the club and the manager.

He was seen as failing, he’d lost the dressing room since the Motherwell game and had been mouthed off by a few of our ex-players after how they were released or not renewed.

 

Was that because they don’t like the club, weren’t getting paid enough or didn’t think they could make a difference. If so, we are probably better not having those players

[allyo]

One thing you can't deny; we've been much better since Chris Erskine left.

That may be adding 2+2 and getting 5. But there was a lot of talk on here about what a blow his departure would be to the squad as a whole. If it was then they've coped with it admirably.

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, allyo said:

One thing you can't deny; we've been much better since Chris Erskine left.

That may be adding 2+2 and getting 5. But there was a lot of talk on here about what a blow his departure would be to the squad as a whole. If it was then they've coped with it admirably.

Aye and naw.

Because we are not allowed in the dressing room (grasping the thistle apart) we'll never know what personalities compliment others and who benefits who etc

Since Erskine left results and performances have been erratic. Up and down. Good and bad and very very bad. It's impossible to know or indeed to judge what impact if any, erskines departure has had on the team. What influence, (positive or negative) he might have brought to bare had he played 2nd half against RC say. What impact, (again positive or negative)he would have had v ICT. Likewise with him playing would we have had results v DUFC or Morton had he been here and playing. Would have have turned the game v Falkirk into a win? Do you see what I'm getting at? I just think you're being a little harsh allyo, a little reactionary? No?

[watties wallies]

did anyone see the after match comment by oor gary

 ref Doolan  --doolan has got his head sorted and that showed in his performance today (words to that effect)

have tried unsuccessfully to find the article again

 

[Auld Jag]

2 hours ago, watties wallies said:

did anyone see the after match comment by oor gary

 ref Doolan  --doolan has got his head sorted and that showed in his performance today (words to that effect)

have tried unsuccessfully to find the article again

 

Remember  reading that as well WW. Also cant find it now.

[douglas clark]

Gary seemed to me  - on Jagzone - to think that oor Chris had 'turned a corner'.  A corner of GC own making, perhaps?

I hope and pray to my very weird Gods that GC is right.

We obviously need Chris Doolan, to be back at his very best.  What is that? 121 goals in a Thistle vest?

Lets hope it is a tad higher by the end of the season.

He may, inadvertently,  rescue the GC CV.

If it keeps us up?

Caldwell should try for something other than loan players, he should try to build a home grown or contracted team. We have been extremely lucky to get Hazard on loan, and others.

This is not a sustainable model for an ambitious football club.

 

 

 

 

[BowenBoys]

It's Kris!

[Auld Jag]

6 minutes ago, BowenBoys said:

It's Kris!

It is. Chris went to Livingston.

[Barney Rubble]

2 hours ago, watties wallies said:

did anyone see the after match comment by oor gary

 ref Doolan  --doolan has got his head sorted and that showed in his performance today (words to that effect)

have tried unsuccessfully to find the article again

 

Gary should concentrate on getting his own legs sorted rather than commenting on any team mate.

[douglas clark]

Apologies,

 

KRIS DOOLAN!

 

121

 

With my amazingly -under-rated by the bookies - ability to win a bet, I predict that we will finally end up with a management team of Doolan / Erskine. It's what we do.

 

Just saying.

 

 

[Auld Jag]

4 minutes ago, douglas clark said:

Apologies,

 

KRIS DOOLAN!

 

121

 

With my amazingly -under-rated by the bookies - ability to win a bet, I predict that we will finally end up with a management team of Doolan / Erskine. It's what we do.

 

Just saying.

 

 

Kris and Chris.

[Norgethistle]

22 hours ago, laukat said:

Do you know why they say he lost the dressing room after the Motherwell game? I'm presuming it was the 1-0 loss at home to them in May you're referring to?

To me it looked like the problems were there from about the Hamilton game in February but certainly by the Ross County game in early April. It looked from the outside that dropping Dumbaya after 2 games was the start of the team questioning his choices

Was the game at Fir Park 

[jagfox]

5 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:

Was the game at Fir Park 

Did we not actually get a draw there? 

[jagfox]

1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said:

Gary should concentrate on getting his own legs sorted rather than commenting on any team mate.

[Norgethistle]

2 minutes ago, jagfox said:

Did we not actually get a draw there? 

We got pumped 3-0

[jagfox]

11 hours ago, sandy said:

Cheers TB.

Some strong, established Clubs have a culture; the ‘Thistle Way’ if you like. But maybe the changes to the Board and financial challenges have changed that for us in the last 3-5 years? 

PropCo, the Black Cats, the training ground. These things seem to have changed us.

Propco have been around for about ten years. Plenty of good things have happened since then.