Caldwell’s Massive 7 Days

[partickthedog]

2 hours ago, Lenziejag said:

A GAL ?

Paul Gallacher?

[That 1 jags fan]

4-0 County now!!!!!!

[Garscube Road End]

Queens were awful.

[sandy]

8 hours ago, Dark Passenger said:

This is my view of the situation:

• Caldwell initially thought there was enough talent at his disposal to challenge for promotion.
• It quickly became apparent - through results and whatever was going on in the dressing room - that morale was rock bottom and certain players weren't prepared to buy into his vision.
• Those that weren't were shipped out in the transfer window with senior pros being brought in to steady the ship. A smattering of available younger players were also brought in to boost numbers/see what they had to offer.
• That approach has been largely successful - Scott McDonald, whatever you think of the way he celebrated last week's beautiful winner, has been one of the signings of the decade - with us being one of the top-performing Championship sides in 2019.
• He's instilled pride and dig in what was largely, pre-January, a gutless and heartless mob.
• We also reached the quarters of the Scottish Cup, disposing of a few potential banana skins and taking an eventual finalist to a replay.

Sure, he's made mistakes - my patience was paper-thin at 15:45 on Saturday - but everything above suggests he more than deserves a crack at promotion next season. I should caveat this heavily by including that I'm aware that we could still go down, though.

Some people will never get over the fact he replaced a Thistle legend. Some people will never get over the fact he allowed another one to leave. Some people will scream blue murder every time he brings on Storey ahead of Fitzpatrick. And some people will continue to claim that it's the worst it's ever been the next time he makes a hard/wrong decision. Tough sh*t.

Some people want better for the Jags than just surviving relegation to the third tier.

[dl1971]

19 minutes ago, sandy said:

Some people want better for the Jags than just surviving relegation to the third tier.

The brevity of your response suggests you have no counter argument to a well drafted critique of the season to date.

[dl1971]

So now we know what we have to do. Beat Ayr at home. How difficult can it be....

[Dark Passenger]

32 minutes ago, sandy said:

Some people want better for the Jags than just surviving relegation to the third tier.

Some people are prepared to give the manager a chance and not snipe from the sidelines when they're hundreds of miles away on holiday.

[Auld Jag]

13 minutes ago, dl1971 said:

So now we know what we have to do. Beat Ayr at home. How difficult can it be....

Having supported Thistle for over 55 years I never take anything for granted. But we can but hope QOS are the only team worried about play offs next week.

[allyo]

40 minutes ago, sandy said:

Some people want better for the Jags than just surviving relegation to the third tier.

By the time last October came around I'd decided that would be good enough for me.

[Alan Murray]

You can't judge Caldwell on promotion - we were never really in a position to be challenging for the top of the table. 

[sandy]

1 hour ago, Dark Passenger said:

Some people are prepared to give the manager a chance and not snipe from the sidelines when they're hundreds of miles away on holiday.

Who is hundreds of miles away on holiday? Are you a better fan than me? Daft laddie.

[sandy]

1 hour ago, dl1971 said:

The brevity of your response suggests you have no counter argument to a well drafted critique of the season to date.

‘Suggests’ 

[JeanieD]

With this week's 2 wins Caldwell seems to have convinced some that he is adequate. That may or may not be the case. He is, in my opinion, still on parole hovering somewhere between Murdo Macleod and Benny Rooney in terms of his stewardship. The board (PTFC's not parole) still have a decision to make regarding him and any level of support he or a new manager will have to be given over the summer, dependant on which division we are in, of course.

 

[Winter of '63]

10 hours ago, Dark Passenger said:

This is my view of the situation:

• Caldwell initially thought there was enough talent at his disposal to challenge for promotion.
• It quickly became apparent - through results and whatever was going on in the dressing room - that morale was rock bottom and certain players weren't prepared to buy into his vision.
• Those that weren't were shipped out in the transfer window with senior pros being brought in to steady the ship. A smattering of available younger players were also brought in to boost numbers/see what they had to offer.
• That approach has been largely successful - Scott McDonald, whatever you think of the way he celebrated last week's beautiful winner, has been one of the signings of the decade - with us being one of the top-performing Championship sides in 2019.
• He's instilled pride and dig in what was largely, pre-January, a gutless and heartless mob.
• We also reached the quarters of the Scottish Cup, disposing of a few potential banana skins and taking an eventual finalist to a replay.

Sure, he's made mistakes - my patience was paper-thin at 15:45 on Saturday - but everything above suggests he more than deserves a crack at promotion next season. I should caveat this heavily by including that I'm aware that we could still go down, though.

Some people will never get over the fact he replaced a Thistle legend. Some people will never get over the fact he allowed another one to leave. Some people will scream blue murder every time he brings on Storey ahead of Fitzpatrick. And some people will continue to claim that it's the worst it's ever been the next time he makes a hard/wrong decision. Tough sh*t.

This is probably as good a case as could be put for Caldwell.

I welcomed his appointment but after his first two team selections, disappointing results and embarrassing post-match interview , I wasn't convinced. I don't think his appalling record up to December should be whitewashed. I also don't agree with the being left with a dreadful squad excuse - there was a core of good but underachieving Championship players  - our Budget will be in the top three in the Division and we have some of the best players. 

Ayr have managed a promotion play-off spot but I don't think our former players Mark Kerr, Declan McDaid or Jamie Adams would strengthen our squad. Hartley left a truly dreadful squad - virtually all of them have been moved on and Falkirk are still hopeless. Someone recently posted the Thistle line-up from Dick Campbell's relegated side in 2005/06 - not a single player would get in the current team.

I also think the transfer window turnaround is being exaggerated. McDonald has not played that well when I have seen him but has scored some vital goals...Anderson was the no-nonsense experienced defender needed but he has struggled against pacy and powerful forwards...Cardle has been lively and Saunders ok...Harkins is a luxury item...McMillan & Hazard disappointing...Mansell & Roy not up to standard.

I have always thought we were too good to go down and it looks that we will get enough points. It's a very poor standard League - Falkirk, Morton, Dunfermline & Queen of the South  are not good sides so avoiding relegation is hardly a great achievement. However Caldwell was always going to get to the transfer window and would only be sacked if we were relegated. However, I have been to fewer games this season, enjoyed them less and have not been as engaged with the results. I am not enthused by the prospect of a team  of rather washed up professionals in a promotion push next season.

A last word(I hope) on the McDonald Goal Celebration - from the highlights, it looked like he ran to an empty part of the Stand...probably doesn't know his way around Firhill yet.

 

[douglas clark]

Winter of '63,

Agree with a lot of what you had to say. Assuming  we avoid relegation the next transfer window will be pretty interesting! Perhaps more knowledgeable people than me would know whether we have more coming up from the Academy, etc?  He has stuck with Penrice up until now - ever present I believe -  and Fitzpatrick has had a number of cameo appearances. Along with Sneddon who has possession of the jersey in goal, for now.

 

What I think I am trying to say is that there is a nucleus of a young team as well as an old team.

 

Thoughts?

 

[Lenziejag]

6 hours ago, Winter of '63 said:

This is probably as good a case as could be put for Caldwell.

I welcomed his appointment but after his first two team selections, disappointing results and embarrassing post-match interview , I wasn't convinced. I don't think his appalling record up to December should be whitewashed. I also don't agree with the being left with a dreadful squad excuse - there was a core of good but underachieving Championship players  - our Budget will be in the top three in the Division and we have some of the best players. 

Ayr have managed a promotion play-off spot but I don't think our former players Mark Kerr, Declan McDaid or Jamie Adams would strengthen our squad. Hartley left a truly dreadful squad - virtually all of them have been moved on and Falkirk are still hopeless. Someone recently posted the Thistle line-up from Dick Campbell's relegated side in 2005/06 - not a single player would get in the current team.

I also think the transfer window turnaround is being exaggerated. McDonald has not played that well when I have seen him but has scored some vital goals...Anderson was the no-nonsense experienced defender needed but he has struggled against pacy and powerful forwards...Cardle has been lively and Saunders ok...Harkins is a luxury item...McMillan & Hazard disappointing...Mansell & Roy not up to standard.

I have always thought we were too good to go down and it looks that we will get enough points. It's a very poor standard League - Falkirk, Morton, Dunfermline & Queen of the South  are not good sides so avoiding relegation is hardly a great achievement. However Caldwell was always going to get to the transfer window and would only be sacked if we were relegated. However, I have been to fewer games this season, enjoyed them less and have not been as engaged with the results. I am not enthused by the prospect of a team  of rather washed up professionals in a promotion push next season.

A last word(I hope) on the McDonald Goal Celebration - from the highlights, it looked like he ran to an empty part of the Stand...probably doesn't know his way around Firhill yet.

 

I agree that his record pre transfer window shouldn’t be whitewashed but it is hard to argue that there hasn’t been a turnaround in form since then. I think they said last night that at one point QOTS were 14 points ahead of us and we could end up only 4 points behind Ayr.OK, you may not think that the standard of the league is very good, but you can only play against what is put in front of you.

As has been said many times - this is a results based business.

We are not out the woods yet, though.

[javeajag]

11 hours ago, sandy said:

Some people want better for the Jags than just surviving relegation to the third tier.

You wanted to keep Archie as manager which led to all of this 

[Dark Passenger]

9 hours ago, sandy said:

Who is hundreds of miles away on holiday? Are you a better fan than me? Daft laddie.

You were when, at the height of your bawbaggery, you criticised the first half performance against East Fife. Silly old man.

[javeajag]

I think we need to all remember last season and the two games against Livingston , then keeping Archie which was a bizarre decision, then the recruitment of I don’t really know how to describe it ...a squad on fifa if picked randomly by your cat ? - which meant we were never going to challenge for anything this season 

Everything today stems from this 

 

[Dark Passenger]

8 hours ago, JeanieD said:

With this week's 2 wins Caldwell seems to have convinced some that he is adequate. That may or may not be the case. He is, in my opinion, still on parole hovering somewhere between Murdo Macleod and Benny Rooney in terms of his stewardship. The board (PTFC's not parole) still have a decision to make regarding him and any level of support he or a new manager will have to be given over the summer, dependant on which division we are in, of course.

 

Where would you rank him, and them, against Dick Campbell, Gerry Britton/Derek Whyte, Gerry Collins, Tommy Bryce and Sandy Clark?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Much as I've been critical of Caldwell and there was no shortage of material to call upon, if he's learnt from his mistakes (or is leaning from them) I don't have an issue with retaining him if we stay up. If on the other hand he continually repeats these errors of judgement then he'd have to go.  From my viewpoint and at this moment of time Gary appears to be on the up. I try not to be influenced too much by his post match rhetoric altho' there's signs that drivel too is improving.

It seems obvious to me at least that if you judge his retention from day one then he would be on the shoogly peg. On the other hand if you judge him as arriving as a near novice, with an overbearing and distraught self belief but learning as he goes along with every possibility of developing as into a more rounded capable manager, your opinion  will differ. I myself am somewhere in between but perhaps tending towards the latter. 

[Auld Jag]

7 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Much as I've been critical of Caldwell and there was no shortage of material to call upon, if he's learnt from his mistakes (or is leaning from them) I don't have an issue with retaining him if we stay up. If on the other hand he continually repeats these errors of judgement then he'd have to go.  From my viewpoint and at this moment of time Gary appears to be on the up. I try not to be influenced too much by his post match rhetoric altho' there's signs that drivel too is improving.

It seems obvious to me at least that if you judge his retention from day one then he would be on the shoogly peg. On the other hand if you judge him as arriving as a near novice, with an overbearing and distraught self belief but learning as he goes along with every possibility of developing as into a more rounded capable manager, your opinion  will differ. I myself am somewhere in between but perhaps tending towards the latter. 

Agree. But if we lose today, I could change my mind again.

[westertonjagfan]

7 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Much as I've been critical of Caldwell and there was no shortage of material to call upon, if he's learnt from his mistakes (or is leaning from them) I don't have an issue with retaining him if we stay up. If on the other hand he continually repeats these errors of judgement then he'd have to go.  From my viewpoint and at this moment of time Gary appears to be on the up. I try not to be influenced too much by his post match rhetoric altho' there's signs that drivel too is improving.

It seems obvious to me at least that if you judge his retention from day one then he would be on the shoogly peg. On the other hand if you judge him as arriving as a near novice, with an overbearing and distraught self belief but learning as he goes along with every possibility of developing as into a more rounded capable manager, your opinion  will differ. I myself am somewhere in between but perhaps tending towards the latter. 

Agree with you. I think the last club video with the nonsense about still going for promotion probably piled pressure on to Caldwell at a time when we could all see that it wasn't going to happen. I think the key points about him learning from mistakes regarding team selection etc are spot on. I'm warming to him and if we win well today then I'll feel a whole lot better about the thought of him here again for the start of next season. The signing of Skippy, Cardle, Saunders, for me shows a sense of judgement on players which Archie didn't show with Ntambwe etc. The recent 'flowering' of Harkins and the sight of big Sean running at the Alloa defence has been, for me, particularly enjoyable. If he can recruit well again in the summer and give us something to cheer about (without any SAS away days), I'm fine with that.

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:

Much as I've been critical of Caldwell and there was no shortage of material to call upon, if he's learnt from his mistakes (or is leaning from them) I don't have an issue with retaining him if we stay up. If on the other hand he continually repeats these errors of judgement then he'd have to go.  From my viewpoint and at this moment of time Gary appears to be on the up. I try not to be influenced too much by his post match rhetoric altho' there's signs that drivel too is improving.

It seems obvious to me at least that if you judge his retention from day one then he would be on the shoogly peg. On the other hand if you judge him as arriving as a near novice, with an overbearing and distraught self belief but learning as he goes along with every possibility of developing as into a more rounded capable manager, your opinion  will differ. I myself am somewhere in between but perhaps tending towards the latter. 

 

40 minutes ago, Auld Jag said:

Agree. But if we lose today, I could change my mind again.

Ran outta likes again. Like we've all discussed before emotions seem as shoogly as the managers post but like LiB and now leaning towards giving him a go next season, then again as AJ days, lose today..............

[Lenziejag]

1 hour ago, Auld Jag said:

Agree. But if we lose today, I could change my mind again.

This is how I feel too. And the closer we get to kick off the more nervous I am getting.